On Jun 22, 5:32 pm, asdf wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 01:27:56 -0700, Neil Williams wrote:
Are there any secret plans to raise off peak fares or to issue guards
with instructions to treat passengers wanting to buy tickets on board
as fare dodgers - see thread concerning SWT. I think we should be
told.

Unregulated fares = off peak fares, or as good as.

Hmmm. My understanding was that, basically, regulated fares = walk-on
off-peak fares (CDR/SVR), and seasons. Unregulated fares = peak
walk-on fares (SDR/SOR) and advance purchase.

Not quite. Peak fares are generally (or effectively) regulated.
Regulated fares are normally Season tickets, Savers or, for
shorter distances, the Standard Day Return or (in a few cases) the
Standard Open Return.
Most off-peak tickets, with the exception of Savers, are unregulated.
For London commuter services, and in certain other large urban areas,
a wider range of fares, including most tickets purchased by commuters,
are
included in regulated fares 'baskets'

asdf wrote in
:

Hmmm. My understanding was that, basically, regulated fares = walk-on
off-peak fares (CDR/SVR), and seasons. Unregulated fares = peak
walk-on fares (SDR/SOR) and advance purchase.

I don't think CDRs are regulated, otherwise SWT wouldn't have been able to
get away with their 20% fares hike...

--
Bewdley, Worcs. ~90m asl.

Plans for reduction of journey times by an average of up to 12 minutes
journey between London and Sheffield are a welcome small step. It is
currently quicker to get to Sheffiled via GNER changing at Doncaster.
The Stagecoach site (http://www.stagecoachgroup.com/scg/media/press/
pr2007/2007-06-22/) says the 12 minutes reduction in journey times
will take effect from Dec 08 timetable and adds there is potential
further infrastructure-based improvements thereafter.

I'm not sure the promised daily Lincoln service will succeed, assuming
it will go via Nottingham and therefore be too slow. Capacity issues
presumably prevent any Lincoln services going via the East Coast Main
Line. But the appalling (or often non-existant) connections at Newark
N Gate may mean Lincoln passengers may prefer a through train, even if
it is slower, providing it is at a convenient time.

I thought the DfT specified that Nottingham fasts include a Derby
portion that would be split off at Leicester. Surely not a good idea
due to reduced capcity for Nottingham in particular. Is this still
proposed?

Philip

* Improved performance, with a forecast 90.4% of trains on time by the
end of the franchise.

* The Community Rail service between Matlock and Derby will be increased
to every hour and extended directly to Nottingham.

* More investment including more than £5m on improvements to stations,
at least 1250 extra car parking spaces and the introduction of smart
card technology by 2010.

Rail Minister Tom Harris said: "This agreement will increase value for
money, improve performance and accommodate future growth in demand. From
new and faster services to increased security at stations, I am pleased
that this new franchise will deliver so many benefits to passengers in
the East Midlands."

The Government will continue to limit annual rises of regulated fares in
line with national policy, which is currently RPI+1%. As with all
franchises, unregulated fares will be the responsibility of the
operator. Stagecoach Midland Rail Limited have indicated they may wish
to raise unregulated fares annually by an average of 3.4% above
inflation.

Notes to Editors

1. The award of the new franchise was announced to the London Stock
Exchange at 7am today.

2. The DfT yesterday also awarded the new West Midlands franchise which
will take over the services currently operated by Silverlink County and
the West Midlands local and regional services provided by Central
Trains.

3. New services will be introduced as part of a new timetable from
December 2008.

4. Market Harborough will continue to receive a two-train per hour
service all day.

5. A single compensation policy for all passengers will be introduced
during the term of replacement rail franchises, commencing with the East
and West Midlands. With improving Passenger's Charter performance in
punctuality and reliability the current discount system means that an
increasing number of passengers receive no compensation for delays.

Therefore discounts in renewal for season tickets valid between one
month and one year in compensation for poor punctuality and reliability
will be replaced by compensation based on delays to individual journeys,
known as Delay/Repay. Under the new system, all passengers will be
entitled to claim compensation for all delays, whatever their cause.

* 50% of the price paid for a single-leg journey delayed by between 30
and 59 minutes;

* 100% of the price paid for a single-leg journey delayed by between 60
and 119 minutes; and

* 100% of the price paid for a return journey delayed by more than 119
minutes.

The changes will also start to standardise disparate compensation
arrangements for single, return and weekly season ticket holders on
different train operators.
--
Paul C

"Philip" wrote

I thought the DfT specified that Nottingham fasts include a Derby
portion that would be split off at Leicester. Surely not a good idea
due to reduced capcity for Nottingham in particular. Is this still
proposed?

AIUI the plan to split at Leicester has been dropped. Instead, a 5th train
will run each hour, a far as Kettering (and possibly Corby). This presumably
means that one of the existing stoppers will be accelerated by omitting some
stops south of Kettering, to be replaced by the 5th train, and will mean
that Market Harborough keeps 2 trains per hour.

Peter

In message .com, at
18:29:42 on Fri, 22 Jun 2007, Philip
remarked:
I thought the DfT specified that Nottingham fasts include a Derby
portion that would be split off at Leicester. Surely not a good idea
due to reduced capcity for Nottingham in particular. Is this still
proposed?

One of the announcements say that this will no longer happen, but
inexplicably claims it's because of the new Kettering/Corby service.

In terms of capacity issues, the trains to/from Nottingham don't seem to
be very full; it's further south that the problems arise in the rush
hours.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 08:37:33 on
Sat, 23 Jun 2007, Peter Masson remarked:

"Philip" wrote

I thought the DfT specified that Nottingham fasts include a Derby
portion that would be split off at Leicester. Surely not a good idea
due to reduced capcity for Nottingham in particular. Is this still
proposed?

AIUI the plan to split at Leicester has been dropped. Instead, a 5th train
will run each hour, a far as Kettering (and possibly Corby). This presumably
means that one of the existing stoppers will be accelerated by omitting some
stops south of Kettering, to be replaced by the 5th train, and will mean
that Market Harborough keeps 2 trains per hour.

So perhaps Derby will get a fast and a semi-fast [maybe Kettering,
Leicester and EMP only], and Nottingham a fast and the (one remaining
long distance) stopper?

Will mean people travelling from (eg) Luton to Derby will be forced to
change trains at Kettering [1], Leicester or EMP [2]. Also explains the
meagre 2tph at EMP (I was expecting nearly all trains to stop there;
heck, if it's 2tph *overall* then are the ex-CT trains on that stretch
of line running straight through?).

[1] If they leave Luton on the 1tph Kettering stopper
[2] Further opportunities if they leave Luton on the 1tph Nottingham
stopper.
--
Roland Perry

On 22 Jun, 16:55, W14_Fishbourne wrote:
Interesting, that's two franchises now where warning has been given of
increases in off-peak fares has been (though it's not a commitment,
one way or the other).

You don't suppose that DfT was a bit p****d off with Stagecoach's
suddenly jacking up off-peak fares on SWT in one massive go.

I actually think the DfT was impressed by it. Aren't they all for
clawing back as much money as possible
from the railways? I think they liked that SWT had to gall to push up
fares they way they did.
And anyway, wasn't it the DfT who stipulated the fare increases
anyway? At least that's what FCC claim when they introduced time
restrictions.

Roland Perry wrote:
In message .com, at
18:29:42 on Fri, 22 Jun 2007, Philip
remarked:
I thought the DfT specified that Nottingham fasts include a Derby
portion that would be split off at Leicester. Surely not a good idea
due to reduced capcity for Nottingham in particular. Is this still
proposed?

One of the announcements say that this will no longer happen, but
inexplicably claims it's because of the new Kettering/Corby service.

In terms of capacity issues, the trains to/from Nottingham don't seem
to be very full; it's further south that the problems arise in the
rush hours.

Another opportunity seems to have been missed by not continuing the Corby
trains on, via Manton Junction, to Melton Mowbray and Leicester and then
back to London via Market Harborough, to provide some relief to the
overcrowding (especially severe in and around the peaks) between Melton and
Leicester and to provide direct journey opportunities between Corby and
Leicester. Alternate hours clockwise and anti-clockwise could bring in some
more revenue for very minimal outlay - unless the time constraints don't fit
with the clockface pattern.

On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 11:56:45 GMT, "Jack Taylor"
wrote:

Another opportunity seems to have been missed by not continuing the Corby
trains on, via Manton Junction, to Melton Mowbray and Leicester and then
back to London via Market Harborough, to provide some relief to the
overcrowding (especially severe in and around the peaks) between Melton and
Leicester and to provide direct journey opportunities between Corby and
Leicester. Alternate hours clockwise and anti-clockwise could bring in some
more revenue for very minimal outlay - unless the time constraints don't fit
with the clockface pattern.

Judging from the wording of the award announcement Stagecoach have
merely provided an option for trains to Corby in compliance with what
the DfT asked for. I imagine it is up to the DfT to decide if they wish
to cough up the money for the option and that's probably connected with
the dreaded HLOS and SOFA. Who knows what Stagecoach may have included
as further enhancement of their base Corby bid? It may be that your
suggestion is there for due consideration.
--
Paul C

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 11:56:45 GMT, "Jack Taylor"
wrote:

Judging from the wording of the award announcement Stagecoach have
merely provided an option for trains to Corby in compliance with what
the DfT asked for. I imagine it is up to the DfT to decide if they wish
to cough up the money for the option and that's probably connected with
the dreaded HLOS and SOFA. Who knows what Stagecoach may have included
as further enhancement of their base Corby bid? It may be that your
suggestion is there for due consideration.

There is some possibility that SWT have managed to persuade the DfT that
other possible solutions exist. SWT still run to Bristol, and beyond Exeter
to Paignton and Plymouth; these services and the new format
Salisbury/Southampton/Romsey loop are in addition to the original
SouthWestern franchise specification.

Paul