On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 21:14:59 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
wrote:

Sounds like how a railway should be used. The (rhetorical) question is why
don't the *powers that be* don't provide stock better suited to the task.

I believe that, now TfL are taking over, that is exactly what they
intend to do.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 21:14:59 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
wrote:

Sounds like how a railway should be used. The (rhetorical) question is
why
don't the *powers that be* don't provide stock better suited to the task.

I believe that, now TfL are taking over, that is exactly what they
intend to do.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

What, with sufficient space for bikes, prams and kitchen sinks (otherwise
known as a *guards van*)? My understanding was Electrostars optimised for
passengers (longitudinal seats - lots of standing room).

On 25 Jun, 14:44, "Graham Harrison"
wrote:

What, with sufficient space for bikes, prams and kitchen sinks (otherwise
known as a *guards van*)? My understanding was Electrostars optimised for
passengers (longitudinal seats - lots of standing room).

....which has the happy knock-on effect of providing more space for
bikes, prams and kitchen sinks off-peak.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

"John B" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 25 Jun, 14:44, "Graham Harrison"
wrote:

What, with sufficient space for bikes, prams and kitchen sinks (otherwise
known as a *guards van*)? My understanding was Electrostars optimised
for
passengers (longitudinal seats - lots of standing room).

...which has the happy knock-on effect of providing more space for
bikes, prams and kitchen sinks off-peak.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org


Off peak maybe but the OP referred to the 0808 train (hardly off peak) and
sharing with all shorts of baggage including (now I check) kitchen units
(not sinks as I said). If we're going to be able to use public transport
instead of cars they need to be capable of carrying not just the passengers.

I accept that guards vans may not be the answer but take a look at
http://www.cycling-in-switzerland.ch...velo_bahn.html .
That's just an example of what can be achieved (in this case with bikes).

Graham Harrison wrote:

What, with sufficient space for bikes, prams and kitchen sinks
(otherwise known as a *guards van*)? My understanding was
Electrostars optimised for passengers (longitudinal seats - lots of
standing room).

The class 378s are supposed to be class 376-derivatives. Those suburban
Electrostars have limited 2+2 seating bays, with enlarged standing areas
around the doors, with extensive use of grab-rails and perch seats.

"Jack Taylor" wrote in message
...
Graham Harrison wrote:

What, with sufficient space for bikes, prams and kitchen sinks
(otherwise known as a *guards van*)? My understanding was
Electrostars optimised for passengers (longitudinal seats - lots of
standing room).

The class 378s are supposed to be class 376-derivatives. Those suburban
Electrostars have limited 2+2 seating bays, with enlarged standing areas
around the doors, with extensive use of grab-rails and perch seats.

TfL's Overground brochure shows longitudinal seating - althought how the
wide end gangway works in the Electrostar carriage ends is another matter
entirely...

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...d_brochure.pdf page
3 of 4 refers.

Paul

On Jun 25, 10:25 am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
"Jack Taylor" wrote in message

...

Graham Harrison wrote:

What, with sufficient space for bikes, prams and kitchen sinks
(otherwise known as a *guards van*)? My understanding was
Electrostars optimised for passengers (longitudinal seats - lots of
standing room).

The class 378s are supposed to be class 376-derivatives. Those suburban
Electrostars have limited 2+2 seating bays, with enlarged standing areas
around the doors, with extensive use of grab-rails and perch seats.

TfL's Overground brochure shows longitudinal seating - althought how the
wide end gangway works in the Electrostar carriage ends is another matter
entirely...

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...d_brochure.pdf page
3 of 4 refers.

Paul

Looking at the brochure, I am surprised to not see the Camden Road to
Chalk Farm/Primrose Hill link. Somehow, I had cottoned on to the
notion that this would be part of the "new" network.

Adrian

On 25 Jun, 23:38, Adrian wrote:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...d_brochure.pdf page
3 of 4 refers.

Looking at the brochure, I am surprised to not see the Camden Road to
Chalk Farm/Primrose Hill link. Somehow, I had cottoned on to the
notion that this would be part of the "new" network.

In the short term, TfL will operate the existing North London Railways
routes (ie NLL, WLL, Goblin, DC Lines) with an enhanced service &
frequency. From 2010 this will also include the ELL.

Longer term plans are dependent on the interface between Network Rail,
TfL and central government. TfL's ideal outcome would be to transfer
the DC Lines service to the Bakerloo and to run Overground trains via
Primrose Hill to Queen's Park, but this has not yet been agreed with
all relevant parties.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On Jun 26, 10:48 am, John B wrote:
In the short term, TfL will operate the existing North London Railways
routes (ie NLL, WLL, Goblin, DC Lines) with an enhanced service &
frequency. From 2010 this will also include the ELL.

I'm not aware of any short term plans for improved frequency. I can
imagine longer operating hours and a few extra peak trains maybe, but
otherwise it looks like the standard service level will be no
different to Silverlink's for the first year or two.

U

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 14:44:07 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
wrote:

What, with sufficient space for bikes, prams and kitchen sinks (otherwise
known as a *guards van*)? My understanding was Electrostars optimised for
passengers (longitudinal seats - lots of standing room).

And thus lots of multipurpose space for bikes, prams and kitchen
sinks. The guard's van is not a solution to every problem, especially
where it leaves wheelchair users travelling in unpleasant conditions,
bicycles away from their owners (I wouldn't like to leave mine
unattended on the NLL) and fewer seats than could otherwise be
provided for the peaks, when said bicycles aren't allowed and kitchen
sinks may be frowned upon.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.