I have recently received a penalty notice for stopping in a box
junction on a busy London road intersection. I recognise that I did
stop in the box junction, for some time, and probably blocked the
crossing traffic, and I intend to pay the fine.

I have reviewed the thread on "Bus Lane Penalties" and noticed that
where (temporary) bus lanes are not legally registered, bus lane
penalties can be avoided. As a matter of legal interest, I am
wondering whether there are any similar legal loopholes with respect
to box junction penalties? For example, the road in question is
reasonably well worn, and I am wondering whether there are any
requirements around the painting on the box junctions? Or, as with
recent speed camera loopholes, are there any specific requirements for
the signs associated with box junctions?

Robin

"Robin Smith" wrote in message
m...

I have reviewed the thread on "Bus Lane Penalties" and noticed that
where (temporary) bus lanes are not legally registered, bus lane
penalties can be avoided. As a matter of legal interest, I am
wondering whether there are any similar legal loopholes with respect
to box junction penalties? For example, the road in question is
reasonably well worn, and I am wondering whether there are any
requirements around the painting on the box junctions? Or, as with
recent speed camera loopholes, are there any specific requirements for
the signs associated with box junctions?

You can try searching for for '1043' or '1044' in
http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si2002/20023113.htm

I have recently received a penalty notice for stopping in a box
junction on a busy London road intersection. I recognise that I did
stop in the box junction, for some time, and probably blocked the
crossing traffic, and I intend to pay the fine.

Dude - do what that footballer did recently and send the form back unsigned
and then contest the penalty and the points in the magistrates court.

Apparently the road traffic act does not require you to sign the form.

"Robin Smith" wrote in message
m...
I have recently received a penalty notice for stopping in a box
junction on a busy London road intersection. I recognise that I did
stop in the box junction, for some time, and probably blocked the
crossing traffic, and I intend to pay the fine.

I have reviewed the thread on "Bus Lane Penalties" and noticed that
where (temporary) bus lanes are not legally registered, bus lane
penalties can be avoided. As a matter of legal interest, I am
wondering whether there are any similar legal loopholes with respect
to box junction penalties? For example, the road in question is
reasonably well worn, and I am wondering whether there are any
requirements around the painting on the box junctions? Or, as with
recent speed camera loopholes, are there any specific requirements for
the signs associated with box junctions?

Three Robins on one thread - it must be Christmas!

Can I ask how the offence was detected, by camera or by being stopped
by a PC or Parking Attendant, and who is pursuing you for the Penalty Charge,
a London Borough or TfL.

I don't think box junctions require signs - I can think of many locations where
there are no signs, just the road marking.


Robin

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 08:45:24 GMT, "Robin Cox"
wrote:

"Robin Smith" wrote in message
om...
I have recently received a penalty notice for stopping in a box
junction on a busy London road intersection. I recognise that I did
stop in the box junction, for some time, and probably blocked the
crossing traffic, and I intend to pay the fine.

I have reviewed the thread on "Bus Lane Penalties" and noticed that
where (temporary) bus lanes are not legally registered, bus lane
penalties can be avoided. As a matter of legal interest, I am
wondering whether there are any similar legal loopholes with respect
to box junction penalties? For example, the road in question is
reasonably well worn, and I am wondering whether there are any
requirements around the painting on the box junctions? Or, as with
recent speed camera loopholes, are there any specific requirements for
the signs associated with box junctions?

Three Robins on one thread - it must be Christmas!

If you wait poplestone will probably turn up and tell you that you it
was your fault for speedling in a hatched (no mater which Robin it
was).

--
This post does not reflect the opinions of all saggy cloth
cats be they a bit loose at the seams or not
GSX600F - Matilda the (now) two eared teapot, complete with
white gaffer tape, though no rectal chainsaw

They have the same status as a STOP sign and there does not need to be any
other for them to take effect.

--

Peter Crosland wrote:
They have the same status as a STOP sign and there does not need to
be any other for them to take effect.

In what way does a box junction have the same status as a Stop sign? You
don't have to stop *before* crossing them, and stopping *on* them is allowed
if you are waiting to turn right across oncoming traffic.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

In the sense that it is a road sign. Parking restrictions and bus lanes
require statutory notices to be published to allow them to be enforced.

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 13:30:11 +0100, "Peter Crosland"
wrote:

In the sense that it is a road sign. Parking restrictions and bus lanes
require statutory notices to be published to allow them to be enforced.



Rather more specifically, parking controls and bus lanes require a
Traffic Management Order (under the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984,
as amended) to be made.

Box junctions do not.


I'm sure our tame barrister on uk.transport.london can fill this bit
in.

Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

Peter Crosland wrote:
They have the same status as a STOP sign and there does not need
to be any other for them to take effect.

Richard J replied:
In what way does a box junction have the same status as a Stop sign?
You don't have to stop *before* crossing them, and stopping *on* them
is allowed if you are waiting to turn right across oncoming traffic.

"Peter Crosland" then wrote:
In the sense that it is a road sign. Parking restrictions and bus lanes
require statutory notices to be published to allow them to be enforced.

Many road-signs (as well as markings) DO require statutory notices
(Traffic Orders) to make them enforceable, for example a 'no right
turn' sign does. So does a 'no entry' sign. But a yellow box
doesn't.