"Bob" wrote in message
oups.com...

....... - Crossrail has unlike Thameslink not been designed
as an equivalent RER but merely a full gauge fast tube.- Hide quoted
text -

I'm not sure this view is correct. Surely the way Crossrail trains will be
sharing tracks on existing routes to Maidenhead, Shenfield and Abbey Wood,
is just like Thameslink; the only main difference is their central London
tunnel will be new, not secondhand...

By the way for those who don't feel they
are part of London the Government is to allow the Mayor and TfL to
increase or decrease service levels on trains outside the London
boundary. No doubt some contributor can draw the boundaries of this
influence - on Thameslink/FCC IIRC I think this will extend to Saint
Albans.

No need to guess, the boundaries of TfL's influence were published on the
DfT website, 'line by line', a couple of weeks ago; including the services
to St Albans as you mentioned.

They don't allow TfL to increase or decrease services unilaterally, though,
but as follows:

"The changes I have announced today will allow TfL to propose and pay for
improvements on some key commuter services that start or end just outside
the GLA boundary. At the same time the new arrangements make sure the
interests of passengers from just outside London are protected by their own
elected representatives."

http://tinyurl.com/2fen9r

I was looking at another forum last week where someone reckoned Ken had been
given the listed network as part of London Rail - amazing how people can
read too much into these announcements...

Paul S

On Aug 2, 10:28 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
I'm not sure this view is correct. Surely the way Crossrail trains will be
sharing tracks on existing routes to Maidenhead, Shenfield and Abbey Wood,is just like Thameslink; the only main difference is their central London tunnel will be new, not secondhand...

There was a prolonged and at some stages heated debate about whether
Crossrail should be built as full gauge inner city metro or be
extended into the London surburban area. Destinations such as High
Wycombe, Reading and Oxford were considered together with beyond
Ebbsfleet siggestions

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/sq...007%202005.htm

Uncle Roger covered the debate in the above article from the archive
section of Informed Sources Alcydon Rail.

The need to contain costs by containing risk won the day. It was
suggested that the further Crossrail Trains went out into the country
the greater was the possibility of knock on delays which would then
affect the core central section - as happens from time to time with
Thamesink. When the Crossrail Bill was introduced in Parliament there
was a major row raised by those MPs whose constituencies fell just
outside the Crossrail area especially from the honourable members for
Reading. Now that Reading Station rebuild has been addressed in the
HLOS there may a case for reviewing the case for wires beyond
Maidenhead and minimising the dislocation effects of construction -
although having seen the results of the Portsmouth blockade now might
be a good to hide behind a barricade.

Maybe I dreamed it, but didn't I read somewhere in the White Paper or
its supporting material that the building/operation of the central
tunnel will be handed over to Network Rail?

On Aug 2, 10:28 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:


No need to guess, the boundaries of TfL's influence were published on the
DfT website, 'line by line', a couple of weeks ago; including the services
to St Albans as you mentioned.


Would this be the list that included "* Services from Paddington,
terminating at Slough;"? Funny, there haven't been any of those since
Heathrow Connect was introduced over 2 years ago!

Dear old DfT, on the ball as usual. Watch out for an announcement soon
of plans to build a motorway round London.

On Thu, 2 Aug 2007, Paul Scott wrote:

"Bob" wrote in message
oups.com...

....... - Crossrail has unlike Thameslink not been designed as an
equivalent RER but merely a full gauge fast tube.- Hide quoted text -

I'm not sure this view is correct. Surely the way Crossrail trains will
be sharing tracks on existing routes to Maidenhead, Shenfield and Abbey
Wood, is just like Thameslink; the only main difference is their central
London tunnel will be new, not secondhand...

AIUI, there won't be a huge amount of track-sharing. Crossrail gets
exclusive use of the slow tracks on the GWML, although it'll share with
HEx from Airport Junction to Heathrow Central. In the east, there will
still be non-Crossrail services on the GEML slows, but i think they'll all
be Shenfield - Liverpool Street, so sort of a second service of Crossrail
- in fact, it would make a lot of sense to have the Crossrail operator run
them, rather than the GE franchisee.

By the way for those who don't feel they are part of London the
Government is to allow the Mayor and TfL to increase or decrease
service levels on trains outside the London boundary. No doubt some
contributor can draw the boundaries of this influence - on
Thameslink/FCC IIRC I think this will extend to Saint Albans.

No need to guess, the boundaries of TfL's influence were published on
the DfT website, 'line by line', a couple of weeks ago; including the
services to St Albans as you mentioned.

http://tinyurl.com/2fen9r

This sounds like the stealthy implementation of the 'london regional rail
authority' plan that Bob Kiley floated early in his reign. I can't find a
map or report about that, but Dave says the boundary proposed was:

* Chiltern: Aylesbury via Amersham & High Wycombe
* Silverlink: Metro services to Watford Junction, the Croxley Link and Watford - St Albans Abbey
* Thameslink: Luton to Gatwick Airport
* Great Northern: Stevenage
* West Anglia: Hertford East & Stansted Airport
* Great Eastern: Shenfield
* LTS: Basildon & Tilbury
* Kent Link: Dartford
* South Eastern: Swanley, Otford & Sevenoaks
* South Central: Oxted, Gatwick Airport, Caterham, Tattenham Corner, Epsom Downs, Dorking
* South West: Guildford, Working, Shepperton, Virginia Water, Windsor & Eton Riverside
* Great Western: Slough / Windsor & Eton Central

The boundary in the GNN report you cite is a bit smaller.

tom

--
Standing on the shoulders of Google

On Fri, 3 Aug 2007 16:54:34 +0100, Tom Anderson wrote:

....... - Crossrail has unlike Thameslink not been designed as an
equivalent RER but merely a full gauge fast tube.- Hide quoted text -

I'm not sure this view is correct. Surely the way Crossrail trains will
be sharing tracks on existing routes to Maidenhead, Shenfield and Abbey
Wood, is just like Thameslink; the only main difference is their central
London tunnel will be new, not secondhand...

AIUI, there won't be a huge amount of track-sharing. Crossrail gets
exclusive use of the slow tracks on the GWML, although it'll share with
HEx from Airport Junction to Heathrow Central.

What happens to GWML freight? Surely it won't use the fast lines -
will it all be sent round via Staines?

"asdf" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 3 Aug 2007 16:54:34 +0100, Tom Anderson wrote:

....... - Crossrail has unlike Thameslink not been designed as an
equivalent RER but merely a full gauge fast tube.- Hide quoted text -

I'm not sure this view is correct. Surely the way Crossrail trains will
be sharing tracks on existing routes to Maidenhead, Shenfield and Abbey
Wood, is just like Thameslink; the only main difference is their central
London tunnel will be new, not secondhand...

AIUI, there won't be a huge amount of track-sharing. Crossrail gets
exclusive use of the slow tracks on the GWML, although it'll share with
HEx from Airport Junction to Heathrow Central.

What happens to GWML freight? Surely it won't use the fast lines -
will it all be sent round via Staines?

I got the same idea as Tom from various press reports. They are wrong. I
don't know what will happen to freight but, at the very least, I expect the
Mendip stone trains to continue. There will also be a two train per hour
service Reading/Twyford/Maidenhead/Slough/Hayes/Ealing/Paddington and
another two trains all stations Reading to Slough according to recent
letters in the Maidenhead Advertiser. The Greenford service will be
reduced to a shuttle from West Ealing.

On Fri, 3 Aug 2007 17:57:01 +0100, Graham Harrison wrote:

AIUI, there won't be a huge amount of track-sharing. Crossrail gets
exclusive use of the slow tracks on the GWML, although it'll share with
HEx from Airport Junction to Heathrow Central.

What happens to GWML freight? Surely it won't use the fast lines -
will it all be sent round via Staines?

I got the same idea as Tom from various press reports. They are wrong. I
don't know what will happen to freight but, at the very least, I expect the
Mendip stone trains to continue. There will also be a two train per hour
service Reading/Twyford/Maidenhead/Slough/Hayes/Ealing/Paddington and
another two trains all stations Reading to Slough according to recent
letters in the Maidenhead Advertiser.

This service pattern, of course, is only part of the plan for if
Crossrail ends at Maidenhead.

On Fri, 3 Aug 2007, Graham Harrison wrote:

"asdf" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 3 Aug 2007 16:54:34 +0100, Tom Anderson wrote:

....... - Crossrail has unlike Thameslink not been designed as an
equivalent RER but merely a full gauge fast tube.- Hide quoted text -

I'm not sure this view is correct. Surely the way Crossrail trains will
be sharing tracks on existing routes to Maidenhead, Shenfield and Abbey
Wood, is just like Thameslink; the only main difference is their central
London tunnel will be new, not secondhand...

AIUI, there won't be a huge amount of track-sharing. Crossrail gets
exclusive use of the slow tracks on the GWML, although it'll share with
HEx from Airport Junction to Heathrow Central.

What happens to GWML freight? Surely it won't use the fast lines -
will it all be sent round via Staines?

I got the same idea as Tom from various press reports. They are wrong.

I got the idea from one of the rail study reports - but as i established
in another thread, those are also wrong!

There will also be a two train per hour service
Reading/Twyford/Maidenhead/Slough/Hayes/Ealing/Paddington and another
two trains all stations Reading to Slough according to recent letters in
the Maidenhead Advertiser.

Letters from someone authoritative, i take it?

Regardless, Thanters' quote from the select committee says the same thing,
and that's as authoritative as it gets (apart from Clive, of course).

tom

--
Mathematics is the door and the key to the sciences. -- Roger Bacon

On Aug 3, 4:54 pm, Tom Anderson wrote:
AIUI, there won't be a huge amount of track-sharing. Crossrail gets
exclusive use of the slow tracks on the GWML, although it'll share with
HEx from Airport Junction to Heathrow Central.

From the opening of the committee on Jan 2006:
"On the Great Western main line Crossrail will share the slow or so-
called relief lines with freight and complementary passenger services
to Reading. The intercity services and Heathrow will continue to use
the fast or main lines during normal operation."
http://www.publications.parliament.u...-i/uc83702.htm

I don't think things have changed. The other services are all stops
Reading-Slough, plus the Reading-Paddington semi-fast is meant to have
same-platform interchange at Ealing Broadway, which means relief
lines.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London