On 18 Oct, 13:05, MIG wrote:
I really can't see what "improvements for the greater good" are going
to be achieved by diverting trains from already overcrowded routes
into central London into a stopping service to Hackney.

The dream of an orbital railway is being pursued in a very blinkered
way. There may be a need for one, but when people agree to the need
for a new service, it's wrong to infer that they mean "and existing
services should be taken away".

The fact that railways developed as they did, with radial routes
having precedence over orbital ones, is a clue to which are more
important.

s/"are"/"were at the time railways developed". Employment is
decreasingly concentrated in central London, and congestion is making
rail an increasingly important alternative for commuting in outer
London.

And AIUI Denmark Hill would keep its Blackfriars and Victoria to
Sevenoaks and Dartford trains (just losing the Victoria to London
Bridge SLL trains) under the Orbirail proposals, so nobody would be
denied access to town...

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On 18 Oct, 14:12, John B wrote:
On 18 Oct, 13:05, MIG wrote:

I really can't see what "improvements for the greater good" are going
to be achieved by diverting trains from already overcrowded routes
into central London into a stopping service to Hackney.

The dream of an orbital railway is being pursued in a very blinkered
way. There may be a need for one, but when people agree to the need
for a new service, it's wrong to infer that they mean "and existing
services should be taken away".

The fact that railways developed as they did, with radial routes
having precedence over orbital ones, is a clue to which are more
important.

s/"are"/"were at the time railways developed". Employment is
decreasingly concentrated in central London, and congestion is making
rail an increasingly important alternative for commuting in outer
London.

As always, things are shifting around. The ELLX trains that will
replace some of the existing stopping services up from Croydon to New
Cross will be useful to those working at Canary Wharf and the
Docklands, given the interchange that'll be offered at Canada Water.

I'd be interested to know how many passengers on these trains head for
the Jubilee line on arrival at London Bridge to head east for Canary
Wharf, or indeed west for the West End. I'd wager it would be a
substantial number. Of course London Bridge remains an absolutely
crucial destination in itself for access to the City.


And AIUI Denmark Hill would keep its Blackfriars and Victoria to
Sevenoaks and Dartford trains (just losing the Victoria to London
Bridge SLL trains) under the Orbirail proposals, so nobody would be
denied access to town...


The whole situation regarding the future of the SLL is pretty complex,
as Paul Scott said - anyone who really wants to get their head round
it should read the RUS. I did a while back but I can't remember all
the options now - plus there's a lot of linkages between different
proposed plans to aid in one's confusion.

Without reminding myself on the plans I don't feel confident in
replying with a proper level of authority - however I can say for
certain that it is far more complicated that the mere diversion of the
SLL away from Victoria or London Bridge.

In article .com,
(John B) wrote:

On 18 Oct, 13:05, MIG wrote:
I really can't see what "improvements for the greater good" are going
to be achieved by diverting trains from already overcrowded routes
into central London into a stopping service to Hackney.

The dream of an orbital railway is being pursued in a very blinkered
way. There may be a need for one, but when people agree to the need
for a new service, it's wrong to infer that they mean "and existing
services should be taken away".

The fact that railways developed as they did, with radial routes
having precedence over orbital ones, is a clue to which are more
important.

s/"are"/"were at the time railways developed". Employment is
decreasingly concentrated in central London, and congestion is making
rail an increasingly important alternative for commuting in outer
London.

And AIUI Denmark Hill would keep its Blackfriars and Victoria to
Sevenoaks and Dartford trains (just losing the Victoria to London
Bridge SLL trains) under the Orbirail proposals, so nobody would be
denied access to town...

The original comments mentioned medical courses run jointly between
King's, for which Denmark Hill is much the nearest station, and Guy's
which is near London Bridge.

When I was born at King's and my father and later brother taught there,
Guy's was a great rival but today they are parts of the same institution
so presumably generate quite a bit of direct Denmark Hill-London Bridge
traffic.

--
Colin Rosenstiel