Will this work?
 

If I touch in at West Kensington and travel to Ealing Broadway, and as
I am not needed to, do not touch out there... does this mean that when
I come home and only touch out at West Kensington I will be charged as
if I never left in the first place?

I travel to Ealing Broadway purely for Network Rail and I don't need
to go through any Oyster barriers when I arrive...so I only touch in
and touch out at West Kensington.

Will this work?
 

"Mark S" wrote in message
...
If I touch in at West Kensington and travel to Ealing Broadway, and as
I am not needed to, do not touch out there... does this mean that when
I come home and only touch out at West Kensington I will be charged as
if I never left in the first place?

I travel to Ealing Broadway purely for Network Rail and I don't need
to go through any Oyster barriers when I arrive...so I only touch in
and touch out at West Kensington.

You would pay £8.00, because your PAYG account would have two unresolved
journeys, one with no exit, a £4.00 max cash fare, and one with no entry,
another £4.00 max cash fare.

Thats why there are separate validators on the paid side at places like
Ealing Broadway, where you can leave onto/into a NR platform/train/office
etc...

Paul

Will this work?
 

On 26 Nov, 11:12, "Paul Scott" wrote:
"Mark S" wrote in message

...

If I touch in at West Kensington and travel to Ealing Broadway, and as
I am not needed to, do not touch out there... does this mean that when
I come home and only touch out at West Kensington I will be charged as
if I never left in the first place?

You would pay £8.00, because your PAYG account would have two unresolved
journeys, one with no exit, a £4.00 max cash fare, and one with no entry,
another £4.00 max cash fare.


What if you were seeing off a friend? You touch in at the barriers,
accompany your friend to the platform, wave goodbye as your friend
gets on the train, then you touch out again.

You haven't actually gone anywhere, so will you be charged nothing?
Or will you be charged £8 for what is essentially a platform ticket?

Will this work?
 

"solar penguin" wrote in message
...
On 26 Nov, 11:12, "Paul Scott" wrote:
"Mark S" wrote in message

...

If I touch in at West Kensington and travel to Ealing Broadway, and as
I am not needed to, do not touch out there... does this mean that when
I come home and only touch out at West Kensington I will be charged as
if I never left in the first place?

You would pay £8.00, because your PAYG account would have two unresolved
journeys, one with no exit, a £4.00 max cash fare, and one with no entry,
another £4.00 max cash fare.


What if you were seeing off a friend? You touch in at the barriers,
accompany your friend to the platform, wave goodbye as your friend
gets on the train, then you touch out again.

Not sure, but I don't think the concept of seeing off a friend (like a
platform ticket) has been catered for on PAYG.
You could of course do that with a travelcard season...

Paul

Will this work?
 

On Nov 26, 11:45 am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
"solar penguin" wrote in message

...
On 26 Nov, 11:12, "Paul Scott" wrote:



"Mark S" wrote in message

...

If I touch in at West Kensington and travel to Ealing Broadway, and as
I am not needed to, do not touch out there... does this mean that when
I come home and only touch out at West Kensington I will be charged as
if I never left in the first place?

You would pay £8.00, because your PAYG account would have two unresolved
journeys, one with no exit, a £4.00 max cash fare, and one with no entry,
another £4.00 max cash fare.

What if you were seeing off a friend? You touch in at the barriers,
accompany your friend to the platform, wave goodbye as your friend
gets on the train, then you touch out again.

Not sure, but I don't think the concept of seeing off a friend (like a
platform ticket) has been catered for on PAYG.
You could of course do that with a travelcard season...

Paul

At the moment I have an annual travel card on my Oyster so I assume I
can do whatever I want and not be penalised right?

But soon I may have to go pre-pay when I move and travel on Network
Rail.

Will this work?
 

On 26 Nov, 11:59, Mark S wrote:
On Nov 26, 11:45 am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

"solar penguin" wrote in message

On 26 Nov, 11:12, "Paul Scott" wrote:

"Mark S" wrote:

If I touch in at West Kensington and travel to Ealing Broadway, and as
I am not needed to, do not touch out there... does this mean that when
I come home and only touch out at West Kensington I will be charged as
if I never left in the first place?

You would pay £8.00, because your PAYG account would have two unresolved
journeys, one with no exit, a £4.00 max cash fare, and one with no entry,
another £4.00 max cash fare.

What if you were seeing off a friend? You touch in at the barriers,
accompany your friend to the platform, wave goodbye as your friend
gets on the train, then you touch out again.

Not sure, but I don't think the concept of seeing off a friend (like a
platform ticket) has been catered for on PAYG.
You could of course do that with a travelcard season...

Paul

At the moment I have an annual travel card on my Oyster so I assume I
can do whatever I want and not be penalised right?

As long as it's valid for the zones you wish to travel within, then
pretty much yes.


But soon I may have to go pre-pay when I move and travel on Network
Rail.


Bear in mind that Oyster Pay-as-you-go (aka Pre-pay) is *not* valid on
most National Rail routes. See this page for more information...
http://nationalrail.co.uk/times_fare...ystercard.html

...and in particular this map (PDF)...
http://nationalrail.co.uk/system/gal...OysterPAYG.pdf

Will this work?
 

"Mark S" wrote in message
...
On Nov 26, 11:45 am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

"Mark S" wrote in message

...

If I touch in at West Kensington and travel to Ealing Broadway, and as
I am not needed to, do not touch out there... does this mean that when
I come home and only touch out at West Kensington I will be charged as
if I never left in the first place?

You would pay £8.00, because your PAYG account would have two unresolved
journeys, one with no exit, a £4.00 max cash fare, and one with no
entry,
another £4.00 max cash fare.


At the moment I have an annual travel card on my Oyster so I assume I
can do whatever I want and not be penalised right?

But soon I may have to go pre-pay when I move and travel on Network
Rail.

Other way round surely - if you are using NR (within the zones) an Oyster
travelcard season is much more use to you than PAYG? Depends which NR
routes you are using, and there are more changes due to PAYG acceptance in
January, but it will still depend on exactly where on NR you'll be
travelling...

Paul

Will this work?
 

Paul Scott wrote:
Not sure, but I don't think the concept of seeing off a friend (like a
platform ticket) has been catered for on PAYG.
You could of course do that with a travelcard season...

But oddly, not with a daily travelcard. Presumably one is *allowed* to, but
I have to "seek assistance" if I try to exit almost immediately at the
station I boarded at. The barriers don't open.

Hopefully there's some sort of time-out after which it will work. I suppose
it depends on whether this is an "unforseen circumstance" or a deliberate
measure to prevent things like somebody passing their card on to somebody
else once they think they've finished with needing it for barriers further
on in their (last) journey.

Will this work?
 

On 26 Nov, 15:37, "Kieran Turner"
wrote:
Paul Scott wrote:
Not sure, but I don't think the concept of seeing off a friend (like a
platform ticket) has been catered for on PAYG.
You could of course do that with a travelcard season...

But oddly, not with a daily travelcard. Presumably one is *allowed* to, but
I have to "seek assistance" if I try to exit almost immediately at the
station I boarded at. The barriers don't open.

Hopefully there's some sort of time-out after which it will work. I suppose
it depends on whether this is an "unforseen circumstance" or a deliberate
measure to prevent things like somebody passing their card on to somebody
else once they think they've finished with needing it for barriers further
on in their (last) journey.

This has been discussed before, but I really can't get my head round
why anyone trying to pass their card to someone else would put it
through the machine.

It seems that the system is programmed to prevent some very convoluted
and unlikely possibilities just because it CAN be programmed thus.
This has no effect on the bleedin obvious, like just handing it to
someone.

Will this work?
 

On 26 Nov, 11:45, "Paul Scott" wrote:
"solar penguin" wrote in message

...
On 26 Nov, 11:12, "Paul Scott" wrote:





"Mark S" wrote in message

...

If I touch in at West Kensington and travel to Ealing Broadway, and as
I am not needed to, do not touch out there... does this mean that when
I come home and only touch out at West Kensington I will be charged as
if I never left in the first place?

You would pay £8.00, because your PAYG account would have two unresolved
journeys, one with no exit, a £4.00 max cash fare, and one with no entry,
another £4.00 max cash fare.

What if you were seeing off a friend? You touch in at the barriers,
accompany your friend to the platform, wave goodbye as your friend
gets on the train, then you touch out again.

Not sure, but I don't think the concept of seeing off a friend (like a
platform ticket) has been catered for on PAYG.
You could of course do that with a travelcard season...

Paul-

I haven't done proper research, but my impression is that any paper
travelcard will give "Seek assistance" whereas an Oyster weekly will
let you go in and out with no problem.

Certainly, if I go to, say, platforms 1 - 4 at Charing Cross, just
miss my train and try to get out for the next one from platform 6, I
can't open the gate with a paper period travelcard.

Will this work?
 

On Nov 26, 4:52 pm, MIG wrote:
On 26 Nov, 11:45, "Paul Scott" wrote:



"solar penguin" wrote in message

...
On 26 Nov, 11:12, "Paul Scott" wrote:

"Mark S" wrote in message

....

If I touch in at West Kensington and travel to Ealing Broadway, and as
I am not needed to, do not touch out there... does this mean that when
I come home and only touch out at West Kensington I will be charged as
if I never left in the first place?

You would pay £8.00, because your PAYG account would have two unresolved
journeys, one with no exit, a £4.00 max cash fare, and one with no entry,
another £4.00 max cash fare.

What if you were seeing off a friend? You touch in at the barriers,
accompany your friend to the platform, wave goodbye as your friend
gets on the train, then you touch out again.

Not sure, but I don't think the concept of seeing off a friend (like a
platform ticket) has been catered for on PAYG.
You could of course do that with a travelcard season...

Paul-

I haven't done proper research, but my impression is that any paper
travelcard will give "Seek assistance" whereas an Oyster weekly will
let you go in and out with no problem.

Certainly, if I go to, say, platforms 1 - 4 at Charing Cross, just
miss my train and try to get out for the next one from platform 6, I
can't open the gate with a paper period travelcard.

I have often gone into a station, through the barriers, and within
minutes come out that same station with my Oyster card.

Will this work?
 

"Mark S" wrote in message
...
On Nov 26, 4:52 pm, MIG wrote:
On 26 Nov, 11:45, "Paul Scott" wrote:

Not sure, but I don't think the concept of seeing off a friend (like a
platform ticket) has been catered for on PAYG.
You could of course do that with a travelcard season...

I haven't done proper research, but my impression is that any paper
travelcard will give "Seek assistance" whereas an Oyster weekly will
let you go in and out with no problem.

Certainly, if I go to, say, platforms 1 - 4 at Charing Cross, just
miss my train and try to get out for the next one from platform 6, I
can't open the gate with a paper period travelcard.

I have often gone into a station, through the barriers, and within
minutes come out that same station with my Oyster card.

Was your PAYG balance reduced? Or was it a travelcard? It seems an important
distinction...

Paul S

Will this work?
 

On Nov 27, 11:43 am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
"Mark S" wrote in message

...
On Nov 26, 4:52 pm, MIG wrote:

On 26 Nov, 11:45, "Paul Scott" wrote:
Not sure, but I don't think the concept of seeing off a friend (like a
platform ticket) has been catered for on PAYG.
You could of course do that with a travelcard season...
I haven't done proper research, but my impression is that any paper
travelcard will give "Seek assistance" whereas an Oyster weekly will
let you go in and out with no problem.

Certainly, if I go to, say, platforms 1 - 4 at Charing Cross, just
miss my train and try to get out for the next one from platform 6, I
can't open the gate with a paper period travelcard.

I have often gone into a station, through the barriers, and within
minutes come out that same station with my Oyster card.

Was your PAYG balance reduced? Or was it a travelcard? It seems an important
distinction...

Paul S

I was just confirming what the previous poster thought... it does let
you do it. However, I have a annual travel card so I'm not sure if
that means PAYG would be different.

Will this work?
 

On 26 Nov, 16:47, MIG wrote:
On 26 Nov, 15:37, "Kieran Turner"
wrote:

Paul Scott wrote:
Not sure, but I don't think the concept of seeing off a friend (like a
platform ticket) has been catered for on PAYG.
You could of course do that with a travelcard season...

But oddly, not with a daily travelcard. Presumably one is *allowed* to, but
I have to "seek assistance" if I try to exit almost immediately at the
station I boarded at. The barriers don't open.

Hopefully there's some sort of time-out after which it will work. I suppose
it depends on whether this is an "unforseen circumstance" or a deliberate
measure to prevent things like somebody passing their card on to somebody
else once they think they've finished with needing it for barriers further
on in their (last) journey.

This has been discussed before, but I really can't get my head round
why anyone trying to pass their card to someone else would put it
through the machine.

This has no effect on the bleedin obvious, like just handing it to
someone.

In Barcelona, you can buy a 10 journey ticket and use it for any
combination of people x journeys that equal 10. An individual can make
10 trips, a couple can share it to make 5 journeys, the first person
through the gate passing it back to the second, or a party of 10 could
use it similarly. It is not only permitted but recommended. There is
no exit check, just a simple push bar like on the Paris Metro.

Will this work?
 

On Nov 27, 12:58 pm, Mark S wrote:
On Nov 27, 11:43 am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:





"Mark S" wrote in message

...
On Nov 26, 4:52 pm, MIG wrote:

On 26 Nov, 11:45, "Paul Scott" wrote:
Not sure, but I don't think the concept of seeing off a friend (like a
platform ticket) has been catered for on PAYG.
You could of course do that with a travelcard season...
I haven't done proper research, but my impression is that any paper
travelcard will give "Seek assistance" whereas an Oyster weekly will
let you go in and out with no problem.

Certainly, if I go to, say, platforms 1 - 4 at Charing Cross, just
miss my train and try to get out for the next one from platform 6, I
can't open the gate with a paper period travelcard.

I have often gone into a station, through the barriers, and within
minutes come out that same station with my Oyster card.

Was your PAYG balance reduced? Or was it a travelcard? It seems an important
distinction...

Paul S

I was just confirming what the previous poster thought... it does let
you do it. However, I have a annual travel card so I'm not sure if
that means PAYG would be different.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, my point was about the difference between period travelcards on
Oyster and paper. The latter don't seem to open the gates if used
repeatedly, but the former do. I can't see why the difference (but
that's mainly because I can't see why paper ones should be prevented).

Will this work?
 

ISTR (but can't find confirmation) that if you enter a station with
your PAYG Oyster and leave it again (within a short space of time) the
journey is cancelled - ie no charge. To cover the case of you finding
the service disrupted and deciding to abandon your journey.

Will this work?
 

On Dec 3, 10:32 am, wrote:
ISTR (but can't find confirmation) that if you enter a station with
your PAYG Oyster and leave it again (within a short space of time) the
journey is cancelled - ie no charge. To cover the case of you finding
the service disrupted and deciding to abandon your journey.

That's not my experience. On one occasion, I entered Moor Park
station, realised that I'd forgotten something in the shop. So I went
back out through the barriers (within a minute of entry), the original
£1 entry charge was not refunded and when I returned, five minutes
later, I was charged £1 again. The £1 was the expected fare for a
Saturday, as I had a zone 1-2 annual travelcard on the Oyster as well.
However, there was no problem with getting it refunded when I phoned
the Oyster helpline.

Will this work?
 

I don't see all the above being true because take a look at this
following route:

Arrive at Ealing Broadway Go Through Barriers Take FGW to Burnham
(no Oyster) Come back to Ealing Broadway and exit barriers.

With the above route there is no way for you to signal that you have
traveled outside of Ealing Broadway so essentially are you entering
and leaving at the same station and of course I hope this does not
charge me when I have the zones on my travel card for Ealing.

Will this work?
 

"Mark S" wrote in message
...
I don't see all the above being true because take a look at this
following route:

Arrive at Ealing Broadway Go Through Barriers Take FGW to Burnham
(no Oyster) Come back to Ealing Broadway and exit barriers.

With the above route there is no way for you to signal that you have
traveled outside of Ealing Broadway so essentially are you entering
and leaving at the same station and of course I hope this does not
charge me when I have the zones on my travel card for Ealing.

But if a Revenue Protection Inspector checks you on the train from Ealington
to Burnham (and they're far more common these days), then you're probably
liable for a £20 fine.

Will this work?
 

On Dec 19, 2:15 pm, "Toby" wrote:
"Mark S" wrote in message

...

I don't see all the above being true because take a look at this
following route:

Arrive at Ealing Broadway Go Through Barriers Take FGW to Burnham
(no Oyster) Come back to Ealing Broadway and exit barriers.

With the above route there is no way for you to signal that you have
traveled outside of Ealing Broadway so essentially are you entering
and leaving at the same station and of course I hope this does not
charge me when I have the zones on my travel card for Ealing.

But if a Revenue Protection Inspector checks you on the train from Ealington
to Burnham (and they're far more common these days), then you're probably
liable for a £20 fine.

There are a vast number of journeys made every day with travelcards
where one goes through a barrier at one end but not the other.

Often where the country end is not barriered but the terminus is, eg
arriving at Charing Cross, Victoria or Cannon Street from many
stations.

Also the other way round, such as many SWT local stations which have
barriers and the regular journey is to Waterloo, which is not
barriered.

I used to make a regular commute from south eastern suburb to south
western suburb, where the only gate I ever went through was at the
south west end (out in the morning and in in the evening). No
barriers at my end or at Waterloo East or Waterloo.

Will this work?
 

Toby: I actually have a season ticket to cover my journey but I
wondered if I was being charged extra for coming in and out of the
same Oyster barriers.

MIG: So are you saying for specific stations you don't get penalised
for entering and leaving the same barriers but for others you would?

Route which hopefully has no charge: Ealing Broadway FGW to Burnham
(no Oyster) Come back to Ealing Broadway and exit barriers.

Route which might have a charge: West Kensington Ealing Broadway
(don't touch Oyster tower on arrival) FGW to Burnham Arrive back
at Ealing Broadway but don't only use Oyster when exiting West
Kensington.

Will this work?
 

On Dec 19, 11:19 pm, Mark S wrote:
Toby: I actually have a season ticket to cover my journey but I
wondered if I was being charged extra for coming in and out of the
same Oyster barriers.

MIG: So are you saying for specific stations you don't get penalised
for entering and leaving the same barriers but for others you would?

You never get penalised if you are using a travelcard, on paper or
Oyster. The question was about the time limit that stops you turning
round and going immediately back through the same gateline (with a
travelcard).

When the travelcard is on Oyster, it doesn't seem to be a problem.
When the travelcared is on paper, there is a time limit. You aren't
penalised; it simply won't open the gate for a while.

I've never been able to work out any possible scam that would involve
putting a ticket through the gate twice (as opposed to just passing it
to someone) so I can't understand this restriction. For travelcards
on Oyster, common sense seems to apply and this restriction hasn't
been programmed in.

Will this work?
 

On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:29:22 -0800 (PST), MIG
wrote:

On Dec 19, 11:19 pm, Mark S wrote:
Toby: I actually have a season ticket to cover my journey but I
wondered if I was being charged extra for coming in and out of the
same Oyster barriers.

MIG: So are you saying for specific stations you don't get penalised
for entering and leaving the same barriers but for others you would?

You never get penalised if you are using a travelcard, on paper or
Oyster. The question was about the time limit that stops you turning
round and going immediately back through the same gateline (with a
travelcard).

When the travelcard is on Oyster, it doesn't seem to be a problem.
When the travelcared is on paper, there is a time limit. You aren't
penalised; it simply won't open the gate for a while.

I've never been able to work out any possible scam that would involve
putting a ticket through the gate twice (as opposed to just passing it
to someone) so I can't understand this restriction. For travelcards
on Oyster, common sense seems to apply and this restriction hasn't
been programmed in.

The frauds are either "pass back over" or "pass back through". Entering
and then handing your ticket back over the gate to someone to attempt
two entries in a row is an obvious fraud. The second variant is to try
to be clever and enter, pass the ticket through the exit gate but not
actually exit and then get someone else to try to enter. This is also a
fraud if it is attempted in immediate succession.

I am not familiar with the ticket logic that is used for Oyster but I
was very familiar with that for magnetic tickets. It may well be that
because Oyster is tracked and has the ability to check up to 10
transactions stored on the card that the pass back through check has
been relaxed. If there was a persistent pattern of this type of
behaviour on the card then I imagine it would get highlighted in the
tracking system and then other action might be taken. Magnetic tickets
are overwritten each time there is a valid transaction so there is no
ability to go back several transactions in the checking process used by
the gate.

For the OP in this mini thread there is no issue with validation at one
end and not the other for a Travelcard ticket on an Oyster card. You
made reference to a West Kensington journey - if you started this trip
outside your zonal validity and were aiming to use PAYG for the
extension then I would strongly suggest you validate on exit from LU at
a platform validator at Ealing on the route between the tube and FGW
platforms. Otherwise you will have a £4 deduction from your PAYG and an
unresolved journey.

If your Travelcard is valid in Zone 2 for West Ken (plus out to zone 6
and beyond on FGW for the rest of your travel) then no issue whatsoever.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!