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-   -   Lack of GOBLin connections (https://www.londonbanter.co.uk/london-transport/5915-lack-goblin-connections.html)

[email protected] November 27th 07 01:00 PM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
Hi,
I'm mildly disappointed in the lack of connections the GOBLin line has
with tube lines (very mildly - it's not one of the things that causes
me to lose sleep, but it is a shame.)
It crosses four tube lines (Cebtral, Victoria, Piccadilly and
Northern), yet only connects with one and that's only because the
Victoria line was built to connect with it.
I was wondering, was the GOBLin built after the tube lines? Does
anyone know the rationale behind its route? Have there ever been plans
to connect it with the lines it crosses? Which came first: the GOBLin
or the tube lines?!
All the best,
LackOsleep.

[email protected] November 27th 07 01:32 PM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
On 27 Nov, 14:00, wrote:
Hi,
I'm mildly disappointed in the lack of connections the GOBLin line has
with tube lines (very mildly - it's not one of the things that causes
me to lose sleep, but it is a shame.)
It crosses four tube lines (Cebtral, Victoria, Piccadilly and
Northern), yet only connects with one and that's only because the
Victoria line was built to connect with it.

I think until changes due to Thameslink in 1981 the GOBlin ran into
Kentish Town rather than Gospel Oak, and used to connect with the
Northern line there.
Even further in the past there was a station at Junction Road near to
Tufnell Park Northern line station. The area needed for rebuilding the
platforms there is still available and there is a development site on
the north side. If London Borough of Islington or the London
Development Agency were interested they could get private developers
to contribute to its rebuilding, e.g. including wheelchair ramps on
neighbouring land.

Dominic

Tim Roll-Pickering November 27th 07 01:50 PM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
wrote:

I was wondering, was the GOBLin built after the tube lines? Does
anyone know the rationale behind its route?

That's a little tricky as the current route wasn't determined until 1981
when the western ending switched from Kentish Town (needed for what became
Thameslink) and routed to Gospel Oak (this is probably also why the platform
layout at Gospel Oak means any through service running onto the North London
Line can't actually call at Gospel Oak). At one stage the line used to run
down to Moorgate via St Pancras and the Widened Lines.

Have there ever been plans
to connect it with the lines it crosses? Which came first: the GOBLin
or the tube lines?!

Most of the GOBLIN predates the tubelines, but as noted above the actual
current GOBLIN route is modern. There was a Northern Line connection at
Kentish Town but this was lost when the end was switched.

There's a walkable interchange between Leytonstone High Road and Leytonstone
on the Central Line, but this has never to my knowledge been officially
regarded as a valid one. (Nor for that matter is Forest Gate - Wanstead Park
despite the two stations being in sight of each other.) Also the Central
Line at Leytonstone took over an existing railway line that predated the
GOBLIN.

Part of the problem with existing overground interchanges, quite apart from
the competitive nature of pre 1923 railways actively discouraging this sort
of thing, is that the GOBLIN was largely built through existing built-up
areas so often didn't have the luxury of being designed to join up the dots
of other stations. The Picadilly Line similarly was in private hands when it
was built and is also underground - again not conducive to interchange.



Paul Terry November 27th 07 01:58 PM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
In message
,
writes

I was wondering, was the GOBLin built after the tube lines? Does
anyone know the rationale behind its route?

The GOBLIN, as known today, has existed only since about 1981. It is an
amalgam of various bits of other lines, although the South Tottenham to
Forest Gate section was built in 1894 (at the encouragement of a
property speculator) to join the Midland Railway with the London,
Tilbury and Southend. Service patterns have been very varied over the
years, including some trains to and from St Pancras and Moorgate - none
of which proved to be particularly popular.

Passenger services were threatened with closure for many decades and
have long been very poor, and the route is (or was) more useful for
freight - hence, very little reason for tube interchange. Of course,
things are now changing ...
--
Paul Terry

Mr Thant November 27th 07 02:21 PM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
On 27 Nov, 14:00, wrote:
It crosses four tube lines (Cebtral, Victoria, Piccadilly and
Northern), yet only connects with one and that's only because the
Victoria line was built to connect with it.
I was wondering, was the GOBLin built after the tube lines?

Going line by line:
- The Northern Line was built to interchange with it, at Kentish Town,
which has since been removed from the route.
- The Goblin was built after the Central Line station (though it
wasn't the Central Line then), and the Goblin station is about as
close as it could be without completely changing the Goblin's route.
- The Piccadilly Line people chose to connect with tram interchanges
at Manor House and Turnpike Lane instead. At the time, they were
trying to improve journey times along the whole line by closing
stations, so three stations in the area would have been considered
excessive.
- The Victoria Line crosses it near Seven Sisters (I believe it stays
north of the Goblin all the way to Walthamstow Central). There is a
reasonable interchange between South Tottenham and Seven Sisters.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

Tom Anderson November 27th 07 02:38 PM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, Paul Terry wrote:

In message
,
writes

I was wondering, was the GOBLin built after the tube lines? Does
anyone know the rationale behind its route?

The GOBLIN, as known today, has existed only since about 1981. It is an
amalgam of various bits of other lines, although the South Tottenham to
Forest Gate section was built in 1894 (at the encouragement of a
property speculator) to join the Midland Railway with the London,
Tilbury and Southend.

Before that bit was built, where did the line go? Terminate at South
Tottenham? Now-lost curve up the West Anglia? Existing curve down the West
Anglia? Up via Harringay to THE NORTH, with the bit to South Tottenham
being added later?

Something that would be truly awesome would be a historical map of all
London's railways, a bit like what CULG does for the tube in textual form,
but done as an animated GIF (or flash or whatever), so you can see the
lines snaking out, joining up, rotting away, etc.

A bit like what microtubules do:

http://www.cumc.columbia.edu/dept/gs...stability.html
http://www.cumc.columbia.edu/dept/gs...sport_mts.html
http://www.borisylab.northwestern.edu/pages/movies.html

tom

--
Pizza: cheap, easy, and portable. Oh, wait, that's me. Never mind. -- edda

Mizter T November 27th 07 02:42 PM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
On 27 Nov, 15:21, Mr Thant
wrote:
On 27 Nov, 14:00, wrote:

It crosses four tube lines (Cebtral, Victoria, Piccadilly and
Northern), yet only connects with one and that's only because the
Victoria line was built to connect with it.
I was wondering, was the GOBLin built after the tube lines?

Going line by line:
- The Northern Line was built to interchange with it, at Kentish Town,
which has since been removed from the route.
- The Goblin was built after the Central Line station (though it
wasn't the Central Line then), and the Goblin station is about as
close as it could be without completely changing the Goblin's route.
- The Piccadilly Line people chose to connect with tram interchanges
at Manor House and Turnpike Lane instead. At the time, they were
trying to improve journey times along the whole line by closing
stations, so three stations in the area would have been considered
excessive.
- The Victoria Line crosses it near Seven Sisters (I believe it stays
north of the Goblin all the way to Walthamstow Central). There is a
reasonable interchange between South Tottenham and Seven Sisters.

U


One useful change not mentioned yet (in this thread at least, though
we've certainly been here before!) is the Upper Holloway to Archway/
Northern line (non-)interchange.

What is the best term for describing such an interchange - an out-of-
station interchange might be a good one, but in ticketing terminology
that means a journey where a change that involves transfer between
stations on the street can be completed on a single ticket. Using the
phrase 'out-of-station interchange' where through tickets might not be
valid would perhaps just serve to confuse things.

Mr Thant November 27th 07 03:59 PM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
On 27 Nov, 15:38, Tom Anderson wrote:
Before that bit was built, where did the line go? Terminate at South
Tottenham? Now-lost curve up the West Anglia? Existing curve down the West
Anglia? Up via Harringay to THE NORTH, with the bit to South Tottenham
being added later?

Missing north curve to Tottenham Hale.

Something that would be truly awesome would be a historical map of all
London's railways,

On the internet, no one knows you're cribbing everything from the
London Railway Atlas:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/London-Railw.../dp/0711031371

Here's the relevant section:
http://tinyurl.com/yrhyqt

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

Tom Anderson November 27th 07 04:15 PM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, Mr Thant wrote:

On 27 Nov, 14:00, wrote:

It crosses four tube lines (Cebtral, Victoria, Piccadilly and
Northern), yet only connects with one and that's only because the
Victoria line was built to connect with it. I was wondering, was the
GOBLin built after the tube lines?

- The Victoria Line crosses it near Seven Sisters (I believe it stays
north of the Goblin all the way to Walthamstow Central). There is a
reasonable interchange between South Tottenham and Seven Sisters.

Er, Blackhorse Road?

tom

--
10 PARTY : GOTO 10

Tom Anderson November 27th 07 04:19 PM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, Mizter T wrote:

One useful change not mentioned yet (in this thread at least, though
we've certainly been here before!) is the Upper Holloway to Archway/
Northern line (non-)interchange.

What is the best term for describing such an interchange

Outerchange?

tom

--
10 PARTY : GOTO 10

Paul Terry November 27th 07 04:23 PM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
In message , Tom
Anderson writes

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, Paul Terry wrote:

The GOBLIN, as known today, has existed only since about 1981. It is
an amalgam of various bits of other lines, although the South
Tottenham to Forest Gate section was built in 1894 (at the
encouragement of a property speculator) to join the Midland Railway
with the London, Tilbury and Southend.

Before that bit was built, where did the line go?

The western bit (South Tottenham to Gospel Oak) was part of the
Tottenham and Hampstead Junction railway (terminating at Tottenham Hale
and running into central London).

The eastern end was part of the London, Tilbury and Southend system (in
fact, at one time, most "GOBLIN" services turned west at East Ham
Junction to terminate at East Ham on the LTS, rather than going straight
on to Barking ... while a few went all the way to Southend).

--
Paul Terry

MIG November 27th 07 04:33 PM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
On 27 Nov, 17:23, Paul Terry wrote:
In message , Tom
Anderson writes

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, Paul Terry wrote:
The GOBLIN, as known today, has existed only since about 1981. It is
an amalgam of various bits of other lines, although the South
Tottenham to Forest Gate section was built in 1894 (at the
encouragement of a property speculator) to join the Midland Railway
with the London, Tilbury and Southend.
Before that bit was built, where did the line go?

The western bit (South Tottenham to Gospel Oak) was part of the
Tottenham and Hampstead Junction railway (terminating at Tottenham Hale
and running into central London).

The eastern end was part of the London, Tilbury and Southend system (in
fact, at one time, most "GOBLIN" services turned west at East Ham
Junction to terminate at East Ham on the LTS, rather than going straight
on to Barking ... while a few went all the way to Southend).


I'm sure that in a previous thread someone mentioned troop movements
from St Pancras to Tilbury.

Mr Thant November 27th 07 05:01 PM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
On 27 Nov, 17:15, Tom Anderson wrote:
Er, Blackhorse Road?

Not if you're coming from central London and hurrying to catch a
westbound Goblin. It's only 3 minutes walk from Seven Sisters if you
use the shortcut through the estate, and it'll save you at least 10.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

sweek November 27th 07 05:45 PM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
Just thought I'd mention that Harringay Green Lanes - Harringay is a
valid and quite an easy interchange; just a short walk up/down the
hill.

Mizter T November 27th 07 06:52 PM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
On 27 Nov, 17:19, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, Mizter T wrote:
One useful change not mentioned yet (in this thread at least, though
we've certainly been here before!) is the Upper Holloway to Archway/
Northern line (non-)interchange.

What is the best term for describing such an interchange

Outerchange?

tom


Yes, maybe!

Paul Corfield November 27th 07 07:28 PM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:42:17 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote:

One useful change not mentioned yet (in this thread at least, though
we've certainly been here before!) is the Upper Holloway to Archway/
Northern line (non-)interchange.

What is the best term for describing such an interchange - an out-of-
station interchange might be a good one, but in ticketing terminology
that means a journey where a change that involves transfer between
stations on the street can be completed on a single ticket. Using the
phrase 'out-of-station interchange' where through tickets might not be
valid would perhaps just serve to confuse things.

Since PAYG was extended to the Overground there are 3 new valid out of
station interchanges for PAYG purposes. These are

West Hampstead LU / West Hampstead NLL / West Hampstead Thameslink

Upper Holloway / Archway LU

Leytonstone High Road / Leytonstone LU.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Tim Roll-Pickering November 27th 07 07:33 PM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
Paul Corfield wrote:

Since PAYG was extended to the Overground there are 3 new valid out of
station interchanges for PAYG purposes. These are

West Hampstead LU / West Hampstead NLL / West Hampstead Thameslink

Upper Holloway / Archway LU

Leytonstone High Road / Leytonstone LU.

Are these valid for non PAYG interchange? (I thought the West Hampsteads
always were.)



John Rowland November 27th 07 07:39 PM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
wrote:
Hi,
I'm mildly disappointed in the lack of connections the GOBLin line has
with tube lines (very mildly - it's not one of the things that causes
me to lose sleep, but it is a shame.)
It crosses four tube lines (Cebtral, Victoria, Piccadilly and
Northern), yet only connects with one and that's only because the
Victoria line was built to connect with it.
I was wondering, was the GOBLin built after the tube lines? Does
anyone know the rationale behind its route? Have there ever been plans
to connect it with the lines it crosses? Which came first: the GOBLin
or the tube lines?!

No-one seems to have mentioned that the Victoria Line is kind of a
replacement for the Goblin. Whatever journeys would be done with the Goblin
if it had decent interchanges, or used to be done with the "Goblin" when it
ran to St Pancras, are done with the Vic instead. That's not much use if you
live in Crouch Hill or Harringay though.



asdf November 27th 07 07:49 PM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 20:28:27 +0000, Paul Corfield wrote:

Since PAYG was extended to the Overground there are 3 new valid out of
station interchanges for PAYG purposes. These are

West Hampstead LU / West Hampstead NLL / West Hampstead Thameslink

PAYG isn't valid at West Hampstead Thameslink...

[email protected] November 27th 07 08:07 PM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
On 27 Nov, 20:28, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:42:17 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote:

One useful change not mentioned yet (in this thread at least, though
we've certainly been here before!) is the Upper Holloway to Archway/
Northern line (non-)interchange.

What is the best term for describing such an interchange - an out-of-
station interchange might be a good one, but in ticketing terminology
that means a journey where a change that involves transfer between
stations on the street can be completed on a single ticket. Using the
phrase 'out-of-station interchange' where through tickets might not be
valid would perhaps just serve to confuse things.

Since PAYG was extended to the Overground there are 3 new valid out of
station interchanges for PAYG purposes. These are

West Hampstead LU / West Hampstead NLL / West Hampstead Thameslink

Upper Holloway / Archway LU

Leytonstone High Road / Leytonstone LU.

--
Paul C

Admits to working for London Underground!

Where are these out of station interchanges listed? They aren't
always shown on the Tube map etc.

Jonathan

Paul Corfield November 27th 07 08:07 PM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 20:49:35 +0000, asdf
wrote:

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 20:28:27 +0000, Paul Corfield wrote:

Since PAYG was extended to the Overground there are 3 new valid out of
station interchanges for PAYG purposes. These are

West Hampstead LU / West Hampstead NLL / West Hampstead Thameslink

PAYG isn't valid at West Hampstead Thameslink...

Oh yes it is. It was extended there on the same date as Overground
launched. The national rail PAYG map shows it very clearly and FCC have
updated their page to make direct mention of it.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...yster-PAYG.pdf
http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk...iCmsPageId=107

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Tim Roll-Pickering November 27th 07 08:13 PM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
John Rowland wrote:

No-one seems to have mentioned that the Victoria Line is kind of a
replacement for the Goblin. Whatever journeys would be done with the
Goblin if it had decent interchanges, or used to be done with the "Goblin"
when it ran to St Pancras, are done with the Vic instead. That's not much
use if you live in Crouch Hill or Harringay though.

It may be true for the Walthamstow half of things, but the Vic is pretty
useless east of there!



Paul Corfield November 27th 07 08:26 PM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:07:31 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On 27 Nov, 20:28, Paul Corfield wrote:

Since PAYG was extended to the Overground there are 3 new valid out of
station interchanges for PAYG purposes. These are

West Hampstead LU / West Hampstead NLL / West Hampstead Thameslink

Upper Holloway / Archway LU

Leytonstone High Road / Leytonstone LU.
Where are these out of station interchanges listed? They aren't
always shown on the Tube map etc.

I haven't seen them formally listed. The information was posted on
another group I read by someone who is close to all of the detail on
Oyster and PAYG.

Please don't complain about lack of publicity - I was simply sharing
some information that was relevant to part of the thread.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Mizter T November 27th 07 09:13 PM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
On 27 Nov, 21:26, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:07:31 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On 27 Nov, 20:28, Paul Corfield wrote:
Since PAYG was extended to the Overground there are 3 new valid out of
station interchanges for PAYG purposes. These are

West Hampstead LU / West Hampstead NLL / West Hampstead Thameslink

Upper Holloway / Archway LU

Leytonstone High Road / Leytonstone LU.
Where are these out of station interchanges listed? They aren't
always shown on the Tube map etc.

I haven't seen them formally listed. The information was posted on
another group I read by someone who is close to all of the detail on
Oyster and PAYG.

Please don't complain about lack of publicity - I was simply sharing
some information that was relevant to part of the thread.
--
Paul C

Well I guess we could well complain about the lack of publicity - but
if we were to do so we should direct the complain to TfL, rather than
shooting the messenger...

https://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/contact/default.asp?type=tfl

Walter Briscoe November 28th 07 09:27 AM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
In message of Tue, 27 Nov
2007 20:28:27 in uk.transport.london, Paul Corfield
writes
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:42:17 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote:

One useful change not mentioned yet (in this thread at least, though
we've certainly been here before!) is the Upper Holloway to Archway/
Northern line (non-)interchange.

What is the best term for describing such an interchange - an out-of-
station interchange might be a good one, but in ticketing terminology
that means a journey where a change that involves transfer between
stations on the street can be completed on a single ticket. Using the
phrase 'out-of-station interchange' where through tickets might not be
valid would perhaps just serve to confuse things.

Since PAYG was extended to the Overground there are 3 new valid out of
station interchanges for PAYG purposes. These are

West Hampstead LU / West Hampstead NLL / West Hampstead Thameslink

Was validity extended to WHT on 11 November? Is there now a gate line?
Validity used to stop at Kentish Town.
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/5823.aspx supports your
point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oyster_card_(pay_as_you_go)_on_National_Rail
shows the old validity.



Upper Holloway / Archway LU

Leytonstone High Road / Leytonstone LU.


--
Walter Briscoe

[email protected][_2_] November 28th 07 09:45 AM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
On 27 Nov, 21:13, "Tim Roll-Pickering"
wrote:


It may be true for the Walthamstow half of things, but the Vic is pretty
useless east of there!

Yes, a journey I have to make occasionally is Manor House - Barking,
*walking* to Harringey Green Lanes and then taking the GOBLIN to
Barking is by far the most pleasant way to do it.

Francis

Andy November 28th 07 09:46 AM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
On Nov 28, 10:27 am, Walter Briscoe
wrote:
In message of Tue, 27 Nov
2007 20:28:27 in uk.transport.london, Paul Corfield
writes



On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:42:17 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote:

One useful change not mentioned yet (in this thread at least, though
we've certainly been here before!) is the Upper Holloway to Archway/
Northern line (non-)interchange.

What is the best term for describing such an interchange - an out-of-
station interchange might be a good one, but in ticketing terminology
that means a journey where a change that involves transfer between
stations on the street can be completed on a single ticket. Using the
phrase 'out-of-station interchange' where through tickets might not be
valid would perhaps just serve to confuse things.

Since PAYG was extended to the Overground there are 3 new valid out of
station interchanges for PAYG purposes. These are

West Hampstead LU / West Hampstead NLL / West Hampstead Thameslink

Was validity extended to WHT on 11 November? Is there now a gate line?

Yes, on the 11th November. There is no gate line, just validators by
the exit to the main road. I first found out about it in the week
starting 11th November, but it was clearly advertised on the website
and at the station.

Validity used to stop at Kentish Town.
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/5823.aspx supports your
point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oyster_card_(pay_as_you_go)_on_National_...
shows the old validity.

[email protected] November 28th 07 10:09 AM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
A similar critiscm can be made of the North London Line, that other
jewel in TFL's crown....We start at Richmond, where things initially
look promising with full connections with the District Line (and South
West Trains). No problems either at Kew Gardens and Gunnersbury (both
now transferred to LU from 11/11). After this however the line passes
under the Piccadilly Line and District Line Ealing branch, but of
course there are no platforms. South Acton would have seen an
inconvenient interchange possible with the District Line had the Acton
Town - South Action shuttle not come off in 1959.
Acton Central has no adjacent Underground station, but then when the
line passes over the Central Line and Chiltern Railways Ruislip
branch, it is only a few hundred yards from North Acton station, yet
again no interchange is possible, despite long-standing plans for such
a facility here.
Willesden Junction does at least link with the Bakerloo and LO DC
Lines, but its usefulness is much reduced by the loss of the 'main
line' platforms, nor helped by the station's chaotic layout. Kensal
Rise isn't near to Kensal Green; Brondesbury Park sits mid-way between
Queen's Park and Kilburn, Brondesbury is little better, whilst at West
Hampstead the line manages to miss two other stations of the same
name! Finchley Road & Frognal is not, of course, linked to Finchley
Road, and when passing over the Northern Line Edgware branch, no
station has been since provided by either operator, instead Hampstead
Heath lies about 20 minutes walk from both Hampstead and Belsize Park
(to be fair the Underground lines came later and failed to site their
new stations accordingly where possible).
Gospel Oak at least serves LO's own GobLin service, albeit through an
awkward subway WB, but as usual, the NLL has its own Kentish Town West
which is nowhere near the Northern Line's Kentish Town. At Camden Town
they had to change the station name to Camden Road to avoid confusion,
it being so far away from its much busier LT namesake. Caledonian Road
Piccadilly Line station stands quite properly in the thoroughfare
which name in bears, but guess what? The NLL equivalent of Caledonian
Road & Barnsbury sits in a side street (and would be better named
"Caledonian Road for Pentonville Prison" given that its stands in the
shadow of that establishment).
At last Highbury & Islington provides a proper connection with the
First Capital Connect and LU systems, though it took a 1960s rebuild
for the Victoria Line to achieve this and move the LT station across
the road to the NLR site. Dalston Kingsland is another isolated spot,
whilst BR's cheap 1980s extension "East of Dalston" didn't even
combine Hackney Downs with the revived Hackney Central station.
Further isolated stations are at Homerton and Hackney Wick before
finally, a triumphal return to a fully-integrated site is made at
Stratford.

Tim Roll-Pickering November 28th 07 10:25 AM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
wrote:

Gospel Oak at least serves LO's own GobLin service, albeit through an
awkward subway WB,

Erm the GOBLIN's bay platform is on the westbound NLL platform isn't it?

Also the track & platform layout is a mess - it's not possible to have a
through service switching between lines that stops at Gospel Oak.



John Rowland November 28th 07 10:42 AM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
wrote:
A similar critiscm can be made of the North London Line, that other
jewel in TFL's crown....
snip
Further isolated stations are at Homerton and Hackney Wick before
finally, a triumphal return to a fully-integrated site is made at
Stratford.

.... but not fully integrated with the Stratford HSL1 station.

You forgot to mention that the North London Line has no station where it
crosses the proposed West London Tram route, and the tram won't even have a
stop at the nearest point to Acton Central station.

Paul Scott November 28th 07 10:58 AM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 

"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
wrote:
A similar critiscm can be made of the North London Line, that other
jewel in TFL's crown....
snip
Further isolated stations are at Homerton and Hackney Wick before
finally, a triumphal return to a fully-integrated site is made at
Stratford.

... but not fully integrated with the Stratford HSL1 station.

You forgot to mention that the North London Line has no station where it
crosses the proposed West London Tram route, and the tram won't even have
a stop at the nearest point to Acton Central station.


Hardly an issue as WLT has been all but cancelled, in the run up to the
Crossrail announcement...

Paul



David Biddulph November 28th 07 11:05 AM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote in message
...
wrote:

Gospel Oak at least serves LO's own GobLin service, albeit through an
awkward subway WB,

Erm the GOBLIN's bay platform is on the westbound NLL platform isn't it?
....

Eastbound, unless it's changed recently.
--
David Biddulph



Paul Scott November 28th 07 11:20 AM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 

"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote in message
...
wrote:

Gospel Oak at least serves LO's own GobLin service, albeit through an
awkward subway WB,

Erm the GOBLIN's bay platform is on the westbound NLL platform isn't it?


Eastbound (northern). I expect the earlier post intended "through an awkward
subway 'from the' WB..."

Also the track & platform layout is a mess - it's not possible to have a
through service switching between lines that stops at Gospel Oak.

Expect if through services off Goblin towards WJ ever happen (and it is in
one of the proposals), the bay will be closed and at least one platform
moved onto the westbound through line, possibly platforms on both lines...

Paul



Tim Roll-Pickering November 28th 07 11:58 AM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
David Biddulph wrote:

Gospel Oak at least serves LO's own GobLin service, albeit through an
awkward subway WB,

Erm the GOBLIN's bay platform is on the westbound NLL platform isn't it?

Eastbound, unless it's changed recently.

Oops, mea culpa. But certainly a more useful interchange in one direction
than a subway from both would be.



Tim Roll-Pickering November 28th 07 12:01 PM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
Paul Scott wrote:

Also the track & platform layout is a mess - it's not possible to have a
through service switching between lines that stops at Gospel Oak.

Expect if through services off Goblin towards WJ ever happen (and it is in
one of the proposals), the bay will be closed and at least one platform
moved onto the westbound through line, possibly platforms on both lines...

Is it viable to make the through NLL platforms the reversing point for
GOBLIN trains? Whilst I can see a through service happening, I'd be
sceptical if it were for all services.

And do the track connections actually allow the GOBLIN to switch to the NLL
east of the platforms? My recollection is that they don't physically connect
at all on that side.



John Rowland November 28th 07 12:18 PM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Paul Scott wrote:

Also the track & platform layout is a mess - it's not possible to
have a through service switching between lines that stops at Gospel
Oak.

Expect if through services off Goblin towards WJ ever happen (and it
is in one of the proposals), the bay will be closed and at least one
platform moved onto the westbound through line, possibly platforms
on both lines...

Is it viable to make the through NLL platforms the reversing point for
GOBLIN trains? Whilst I can see a through service happening, I'd be
sceptical if it were for all services.

It would require new viaduct and the desecration of an industrial yard, for
very little benefit, especially since Gospel Oak is the middle of nowhere.
Making the current bay platform a bidirectional through platform (for Goblin
passenger trains only) doesn't look hard form this photo...

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=...e=-1&encType=1

That would allow some Goblins to terminate here and some to serve Gospel Oak
on their way to or from Clapham Junction etc.



Paul Scott November 28th 07 12:19 PM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 

"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote in message
...
Paul Scott wrote:

Also the track & platform layout is a mess - it's not possible to have a
through service switching between lines that stops at Gospel Oak.

Expect if through services off Goblin towards WJ ever happen (and it is
in one of the proposals), the bay will be closed and at least one
platform moved onto the westbound through line, possibly platforms on
both lines...

Is it viable to make the through NLL platforms the reversing point for
GOBLIN trains? Whilst I can see a through service happening, I'd be
sceptical if it were for all services.

And do the track connections actually allow the GOBLIN to switch to the
NLL east of the platforms? My recollection is that they don't physically
connect at all on that side.

Don't forget the NLL platforms are curving round to the south as the NLL
leaves Gospel Oak eastbound, there woul be significant new track &
embankment works to get over from the Goblin and line up with the NLL with a
reasonable curve. It would also add two more unnecessary flat junctions in
the area, which is a bit of a negative when trying to increase passenger
frequencies while allowing for existing freight. Two new platforms is
probably the easiest solution really, and Google Earth seems to show bags of
room for them...

Paul



Tom Barry November 28th 07 12:50 PM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
Paul Scott wrote:
"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
wrote:
A similar critiscm can be made of the North London Line, that other
jewel in TFL's crown....
snip
You forgot to mention that the North London Line has no station where it
crosses the proposed West London Tram route, and the tram won't even have
a stop at the nearest point to Acton Central station.


Hardly an issue as WLT has been all but cancelled, in the run up to the
Crossrail announcement...


There is a reasonable, if not brilliant (2/3 mile walk) interchange
between Acton Central and Acton Main Line. So what, I hear you say, but
of course in a few years that becomes Overground/Crossrail and should be
rather important. A station on the NLL just south of the A40 bridge
might be possible, given that Crossrail is mostly useless to us south
west London types as none of the stations are particularly easy to reach.

Of course, you could always move the stone terminal and have a Park and
Ride there, or something.

Tom

Richard J.[_2_] November 28th 07 01:40 PM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
wrote:
when the line passes over the Central Line and Chiltern Railways
Ruislip branch, it is only a few hundred yards from North Acton
station, yet again no interchange is possible, despite
long-standing plans for such a facility here.

Plans? Are you sure? If so, where can I find them? Or do you just mean
"dreams"?

--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)



Matthew Dickinson November 28th 07 03:31 PM
Lack of GOBLin connections
 
On 28 Nov, 14:40, "Richard J." wrote:
wrote:
when the line passes over the Central Line and Chiltern Railways
Ruislip branch, it is only a few hundred yards from North Acton
station, yet again no interchange is possible, despite
long-standing plans for such a facility here.

Plans? Are you sure? If so, where can I find them? Or do you just mean
"dreams"?

--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

Ealing Council list it in their plans:

page 117 of
http://www.ealing.gov.uk/ealing3/exp...Chapter_08.pdf


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