The King's Cross St. Pancras nexus - a novelty tube map
 

Paul Scott wrote:
"James Farrar" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 15:09:32 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:


I also believe that the platform 1-8 footbridge at KX will eventually be
the only way *onto* platforms 1-7, with exit-only at the buffer ends.

That seems to be at odds with how I read McAslan's drg AL-00G
(http://tinyurl.com/35bocd - 7 MB pdf, page 4 of 5), which doesn't
seem to disallow pax entering the one marked "In" gateline between
platforms 1 and Y and immediately turning left to reach platforms 2-8.


That's correct. Since my earlier comments I've now trawled through past
posts, and found the Arup report I linked to back in March when this was
discussed at length. It has a few excellent drawings showing how all the
passenger flows work.

http://tinyurl.com/2csubh


Unfortunately, the excellent drawings have suffered somewhat in the
process that has produced this PDF.I've tried two different PDF viewers
and in both cases the diagrams come out as a blurred mess. One gets a sense
of what was there, but it looks as if some high-quality originals have been
scanned and resized badly before being put into the PDF.

The King's Cross St. Pancras nexus - a novelty tube map
 

"Kevin Ashley" wrote in message
...


Unfortunately, the excellent drawings have suffered somewhat in the
process that has produced this PDF.I've tried two different PDF viewers
and in both cases the diagrams come out as a blurred mess. One gets a
sense
of what was there, but it looks as if some high-quality originals have
been
scanned and resized badly before being put into the PDF.

Yes - my bad English - should probably have said they are excellent for the
purpose of describing the passenger flows...

Paul

The King's Cross St. Pancras nexus - a novelty tube map
 

On Dec 7, 2:42 pm, "Peter Goodland"
wrote:
Am I right in thinking that actually the new St Pancras Thameslink
station is actually to the left of the EMT platforms (but slightly
nearer Euston Road)? I'm sure I saw that on a diagram somewhere -
showing that the Thameslink tunnel actually passes under the Midland
Main Line before the new station. Can anyone confirm that?

Here's a plan, posted here a few days ago.

http://www.arup.com/_assets/_download/download268.pdf


I'm confused , I thought the Thameslink changes at KX were simply a
new station but it seems from this they've bored some new tunnels
too?

B2003

The King's Cross St. Pancras nexus - a novelty tube map
 

On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 16:55:08 +0000, Kevin Ashley
wrote:

Paul Scott wrote:
"James Farrar" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 15:09:32 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:


I also believe that the platform 1-8 footbridge at KX will eventually be
the only way *onto* platforms 1-7, with exit-only at the buffer ends.

That seems to be at odds with how I read McAslan's drg AL-00G
(http://tinyurl.com/35bocd - 7 MB pdf, page 4 of 5), which doesn't
seem to disallow pax entering the one marked "In" gateline between
platforms 1 and Y and immediately turning left to reach platforms 2-8.


That's correct. Since my earlier comments I've now trawled through past
posts, and found the Arup report I linked to back in March when this was
discussed at length. It has a few excellent drawings showing how all the
passenger flows work.

http://tinyurl.com/2csubh


Unfortunately, the excellent drawings have suffered somewhat in the
process that has produced this PDF.

That's a polite way of putting it.

It would be nice if Camden just asked its applicants to provide PDFs
to put on the website so they don't need to scan hard copy
originals... I won't hold my breath, though ;)

The King's Cross St. Pancras nexus - a novelty tube map
 

"Boltar" wrote in message
...
On Dec 7, 2:42 pm, "Peter Goodland"
wrote:
Am I right in thinking that actually the new St Pancras Thameslink
station is actually to the left of the EMT platforms (but slightly
nearer Euston Road)? I'm sure I saw that on a diagram somewhere -
showing that the Thameslink tunnel actually passes under the Midland
Main Line before the new station. Can anyone confirm that?

Here's a plan, posted here a few days ago.

http://www.arup.com/_assets/_download/download268.pdf


I'm confused , I thought the Thameslink changes at KX were simply a
new station but it seems from this they've bored some new tunnels
too?


It is the link tunnels to the ECML that are the brand new bores, connected
to the existing route at the north end of the box, the outer two curving
lines. I think there was some precautionary work done around the existing
tunnel (the centre line of the three - not sure if it is single or double at
that point on the schematic) so that they wouldn't be affected by the
northbound ECML link, that burrows underneath them.

The 'box' area is effectively on the line of the original Thameslink tunnels
opened out to form the platform area, I wonder if the track was straightened
at all, if not that was a pretty convenient straight section, long enough
for 12 car platforms...

Paul S

The King's Cross St. Pancras nexus - a novelty tube map
 

On 7 Dec, 16:06, "Paul Scott" wrote:
"Mizter T" wrote in message

...



On 7 Dec, 15:09, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:59:54 on
Fri, 7 Dec 2007, Sky Rider remarked:

wrote:
Am I right in thinking that actually the new St Pancras Thameslink
station is actually to the left of the EMT platforms (but slightly
nearer Euston Road)?

That is correct.

And it's at a slight angle to the side of St Pancras (turned clockwise).

Meanwhile, is there really going to be an exit for KX platforms 9-11
halfway along the passage to the Northern ticket hall?

I also believe that the platform 1-8 footbridge at KX will eventually be
the only way *onto* platforms 1-7, with exit-only at the buffer ends.

Really?! That isn't going to be at all popular, having to lug one's
luggage up then down some stairs. Though of course there could be
lifts for each platform, and a ramp at the west side to access the
bridge, so it could be mitigated somewhat. And the main concourse is
going to be on the west side I suppose, so maybe it's not going to be
an issue at all.

Its an interpretation that has been highlighted before, but it is definitely
not correct from the evidence available in the various planning documents.
It is correct that the bridge will be one way onto the platforms from the
higher level of the new main concourse, but there will also be two way
traffic onto the southen ends of the platforms as now. This is why the
higher numbered platforms 5-8 are going to be shortened at the buffer end,
to allow more circulation space round to the western concourse.

"The majority of passengers using train services in the main train shed will
move from the new concourse at its southernmost end, through the Western
range and onto platforms from the South."

See: http://tinyurl.com/2rs5l2 section 5.4 for info...

Paul

On a tangent here, why are the platforms the length they are, if they
can be shortened and yet still accommodate full-length intercity
trains?

The King's Cross St. Pancras nexus - a novelty tube map
 

On 7 Dec, 15:09, Roland Perry wrote:
Meanwhile, is there really going to be an exit for KX platforms 9-11
halfway along the passage to the Northern ticket hall?

It's not shown very clearly on any diagrams, but I think so, though at
the north end of the ticket hall itself. It looks like it'll actually
be in the middle of the new concourse building site.

Thanks for your feedback everyone.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

The King's Cross St. Pancras nexus - a novelty tube map
 

"Paul Scott" wrote

It is the link tunnels to the ECML that are the brand new bores, connected
to the existing route at the north end of the box, the outer two curving
lines. I think there was some precautionary work done around the existing
tunnel (the centre line of the three - not sure if it is single or double
at
that point on the schematic) so that they wouldn't be affected by the
northbound ECML link, that burrows underneath them.

The 'box' area is effectively on the line of the original Thameslink
tunnels
opened out to form the platform area, I wonder if the track was
straightened
at all, if not that was a pretty convenient straight section, long enough
for 12 car platforms...

The Thameslink tunnel is, AIUI, a double track bore all the way from Kings
Cross Thameslink to where it surfaces at St Pauls Road Junction. There were
formerly three junctions in the tunnel - the spur from Kings Cross York
Road, the spur to Kings Cross Suburban (the Hotel Curve) and a spur from the
Metropolitan, i.e. the Circle Line). There was originally a spur from the
Metropolitan Railway facing west to the spur from York Road, though this was
never regularly used and was taken out during the building of what is now
the Thameslink Line.

Peter

The King's Cross St. Pancras nexus - a novelty tube map
 

"Jamie Thompson" wrote

On a tangent here, why are the platforms the length they are, if they
can be shortened and yet still accommodate full-length intercity
trains?

Before the HST era, a typical ECML train would have been loco + 12 Mk1 or
Mk2 coaches, i.e. about 260 metres. It would then need another loco to haul
it back, so that would need platforms with a total operational length of 280
metres. During WW2 some enormous trains were run, but they could on
occasions stretch into Gas Works Tunnel. Now trains are 2+9 HSTs, or
91+9Mk4+DVT, ie. about 247 metres, so a bit of shortening is possible,
unless it is thought longer trains may be needed in future. However, it is
probable that anything longer than 11 23-metre coaches (253 metres) or 10
26-metre coaches would cause problems elsewhere on the ECML, so are
unlikely. At least two platforms were able to cope with a NoL E* which is
about 300 metres long.

Peter

The King's Cross St. Pancras nexus - a novelty tube map
 

On Fri, 7 Dec 2007, Mizter T wrote:

On 7 Dec, 13:34, Mr Thant
wrote:

http://londonconnections.blogspot.co...ss-st-pancras-...

The other thing is perhaps marking the way towards Camden next to the
arrow on the top-left surface street

Perhaps ditto the other streets, too. Perhaps even something like
"Bloomsbury (5 min)".

tom

--
Suddenly, everything is clear ...