Evening all,

Rambling and slightly self-indulgent post, sorry. Feel free to ignore!

I would really rather like to make a 150-mile journey across the country
on Christmas Eve, from Wivenhoe (near Colchester, out in Essex) to
Swindon. Oh, the joys of the fissioned nuclear family.

If i ask the NR journey planner about this, it says (and this is the last
train, which is not quite what i'd actually be aiming for, but for the
sake of argument):

Leg 1 of 4
Depart: 18:16 Wivenhoe (WIV)
Arrive: 18:37 Colchester (COL)
Travel By: Train
Duration: 0:21

Leg 2 of 4
Depart: 18:40 Colchester (COL)
Arrive: 20:20 London Liverpool Street (LST)
Travel By: Rail replacement bus
Duration: 1:40

Leg 3 of 4
Depart: 20:20 London Liverpool Street (LST)
Arrive: 21:15 London Paddington (PAD)
Travel By: Underground #
Duration: 0:55

Leg 4 of 4
Depart: 21:30 London Paddington (PAD)
Arrive: 22:31 Swindon (Wilts) (SWI)
Duration: 1:01

Total Journey Duration: 4:15

In other words, bustitution all the way from Colchester to Liverpool
Street, taking 1:40 (if you believe that) for what would usually be just
under an hour.

But when i look at the One website (One being the company who run the
Great Eastern trains - still a stupid name) to find out why there's
bustitution, it tells me this:

http://www.onerailway.com/latest_inf...ster_to_london

And also this:

http://www.onerailway.com/content/do...-31+Dec+07.pdf

Both of which indicate that it's down to works at various points along the
line from Shenfield to Liverpool Street, and that trains will be running
as far as the charming town of Ingatestone, with a bus from there to
Newbury Park (!), from where you can get the tube. So no bus ride from
Colchester to London.

I should point out that the NR planner gives the same route if i leave at
lunchtime, so this is not some late-on-christmas-eve thing.

What am i missing? Is the Journey Planner wrong, am i getting my dates and
times mixed up, is the Journey Planner presenting the three-mode leg from
Colchester to Liverpool Street as a bus for simplicity?

Does anyone know for sure what's happening in terms of trains and buses?

If you look at One's special timetable:

http://www.onerailway.com/content/do...St-Clacton.pdf

On page 10, there's a service like this (fingers crossed that this lines
up):

train bus tube
Colchester 1853
Witham 1904
Chelmsford 1913
Ingatestone 1923 1930
Newbury Park 2010 2024
Liverpool St 2048

Which is actually slower than the alleged bus, but does at least exist.
That's the one that i'd get if i got the 1816 from Wivenhoe that the
journey planner suggested. A bit later, there's one that does this:

Wivenhoe 1907
Colchester 1917
Marks Tey 1923
Witham 1931
Hatfield Pvl 1935
Chelmsford 1941
Ingatestone 1950 2000
Newbury Park 2040 2054
Liverpool St 2118

Which, although it wouldn't let me get to Paddington in time, is direct,
and an hour and a minute from Colchester to Liverpool Street.

I'm going to send an email to One, but in the meantime, any ideas
gratefully received!

Bonus question: to get from Newbury Park to Swindon, should i do:

- Central Line to Liverpool Street, H&C/Circle to Paddington, train to Swindon
- Central Line to Oxford Circus, Bakerloo to Paddington, train to Swindon
- Central Line to Lancaster Gate, walk to Paddington, train to Swindon
- Central Line to Ealing Broadway, train(s) to Swindon

?

tom

--
The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right. -- Lord Hailsham

In message , at
20:56:20 on Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Tom Anderson
remarked:

In other words, bustitution all the way from Colchester to Liverpool
Street, taking 1:40 (if you believe that) for what would usually be
just under an hour.

It's a very fast railway line, and rather gruesome road. I wouldn't want
to guarantee 1:40 myself.

trains will be running as far as the charming town of Ingatestone,

Pronounced inger-test-tony, by the way.

No, just kidding.

with a bus from there to Newbury Park (!), from where you can get the
tube. So no bus ride from Colchester to London.

Ingatestone is pretty much at one end of the Brentwood Bypass, so not
far from there to Newbury Park via Gallows Corner and Eastern Avenue.

I should point out that the NR planner gives the same route if i leave
at lunchtime, so this is not some late-on-christmas-eve thing.

Apparently Liverpool St has an extended closure over the Xmas period.

Bonus question: to get from Newbury Park to Swindon, should i do:

- Central Line to Liverpool Street, H&C/Circle to Paddington, train to Swindon
- Central Line to Oxford Circus, Bakerloo to Paddington, train to Swindon

That would be my best guess.

- Central Line to Lancaster Gate, walk to Paddington, train to Swindon
- Central Line to Ealing Broadway, train(s) to Swindon

--
Roland Perry

I have a suspicion that the NR Journey Planner has roughly half an
idea of what's actually happening at Christmas. The other day it was
quite happily giving me journeys from Leeds to Birkenhead for
Christmas Eve with the last leg from Liverpool later than 2300- it was
only when I checked Merseytravel's site that I discovered that
Merseyrail are winding down from about 2000 on Christmas Eve, so for
the second Christmas on the run, National Express win.

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at
20:56:20 on Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Tom Anderson
remarked:

Bonus question: to get from Newbury Park to Swindon, should i do:

- Central Line to Liverpool Street, H&C/Circle to Paddington, train to
Swindon
- Central Line to Oxford Circus, Bakerloo to Paddington, train to Swindon

That would be my best guess.

- Central Line to Lancaster Gate, walk to Paddington, train to Swindon
- Central Line to Ealing Broadway, train(s) to Swindon

Another possibility is Central Line to Mile End then H&C to Paddington. Mile
End is a cross-platform interchange.

Peter

Tom Anderson wrote:

(snip)

Bonus question: to get from Newbury Park to Swindon, should i do:

- Central Line to Liverpool Street, H&C/Circle to Paddington, train to Swindon
- Central Line to Oxford Circus, Bakerloo to Paddington, train to Swindon
- Central Line to Lancaster Gate, walk to Paddington, train to Swindon
- Central Line to Ealing Broadway, train(s) to Swindon


My vote is definitely with the Central Line to Lancaster Gate then
walking to Paddington, it's not very far at all - take a left into
Spring Street, or indeed a right into Craven Road...
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=526711&y=180796

Trains for Swindon don't stop at Ealing Broadway.

On 10 Dec, 20:56, Tom Anderson wrote:
What am i missing? Is the Journey Planner wrong, am i getting my dates and
times mixed up, is the Journey Planner presenting the three-mode leg from
Colchester to Liverpool Street as a bus for simplicity?

I'd go for published material over the Journey Planner. But in this
case, can't you just get the 1816 and then do whatever they tell you?
You'll surely get to London eventually.

- Central Line to Liverpool Street, H&C/Circle to Paddington, train to Swindon
- Central Line to Oxford Circus, Bakerloo to Paddington, train to Swindon
- Central Line to Lancaster Gate, walk to Paddington, train to Swindon
- Central Line to Ealing Broadway, train(s) to Swindon

All but the last look about the same time wise. Ealing Broadway takes
ages by tube and a couple of minutes by train from Paddington. The H&C
platforms at Paddington are the best positioned for making a last
minute dash to a train.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
.li...
Evening all,

Rambling and slightly self-indulgent post, sorry. Feel free to ignore!

I would really rather like to make a 150-mile journey across the country
on Christmas Eve, from Wivenhoe (near Colchester, out in Essex) to
Swindon. Oh, the joys of the fissioned nuclear family.

If i ask the NR journey planner about this, it says (and this is the last
train, which is not quite what i'd actually be aiming for, but for the
sake of argument):

Leg 1 of 4
Depart: 18:16 Wivenhoe (WIV)
Arrive: 18:37 Colchester (COL)
Travel By: Train
Duration: 0:21

Leg 2 of 4
Depart: 18:40 Colchester (COL)
Arrive: 20:20 London Liverpool Street (LST)
Travel By: Rail replacement bus
Duration: 1:40

Leg 3 of 4
Depart: 20:20 London Liverpool Street (LST)
Arrive: 21:15 London Paddington (PAD)
Travel By: Underground #
Duration: 0:55

Leg 4 of 4
Depart: 21:30 London Paddington (PAD)
Arrive: 22:31 Swindon (Wilts) (SWI)
Duration: 1:01

Total Journey Duration: 4:15

In other words, bustitution all the way from Colchester to Liverpool
Street, taking 1:40 (if you believe that) for what would usually be just
under an hour.

But when i look at the One website (One being the company who run the
Great Eastern trains - still a stupid name) to find out why there's
bustitution, it tells me this:

http://www.onerailway.com/latest_inf...ster_to_london

And also this:

http://www.onerailway.com/content/do...-31+Dec+07.pdf

Both of which indicate that it's down to works at various points along the
line from Shenfield to Liverpool Street, and that trains will be running
as far as the charming town of Ingatestone, with a bus from there to
Newbury Park (!), from where you can get the tube. So no bus ride from
Colchester to London.

I should point out that the NR planner gives the same route if i leave at
lunchtime, so this is not some late-on-christmas-eve thing.

What am i missing? Is the Journey Planner wrong, am i getting my dates and
times mixed up, is the Journey Planner presenting the three-mode leg from
Colchester to Liverpool Street as a bus for simplicity?

Does anyone know for sure what's happening in terms of trains and buses?

If you look at the page for Norwich
http://www.onerailway.com/latest_inf...wich_to_london
it shows the buses from Colchester to Liverpool St given by the NR planner.

I guess One are trying to spread the load over different routes although it
seems a bit sneaky to not tell people about all the possible alternatives.

Peter Smyth

On 2007-12-10, Tom Anderson wrote:
Evening all,

Rambling and slightly self-indulgent post, sorry. Feel free to ignore!

I would really rather like to make a 150-mile journey across the country
on Christmas Eve, from Wivenhoe (near Colchester, out in Essex) to
Swindon. Oh, the joys of the fissioned nuclear family.

If i ask the NR journey planner about this, it says (and this is the last
train, which is not quite what i'd actually be aiming for, but for the
sake of argument):

snip
Total Journey Duration: 4:15

In other words, bustitution all the way from Colchester to Liverpool
Street, taking 1:40 (if you believe that) for what would usually be just
under an hour.

A fairly normal time for such a bus trip.

But when i look at the One website ...

What am i missing? Is the Journey Planner wrong, am i getting my dates and
times mixed up, is the Journey Planner presenting the three-mode leg from
Colchester to Liverpool Street as a bus for simplicity?

Just a bit of bad website presentation, and/or corporate stupidity. In
spite of being "one" company, they often seem to think that Anglia and
GE are still separate. The bustitution the Journey Planner gave you is
actually shown in the Norwich timetable on the website, is quite
likely to be a coach rather than a bus, and should, on average at least,
be quicker than the Newbury Park route.

snip

Wivenhoe 1907
Colchester 1917
Marks Tey 1923
Witham 1931
Hatfield Pvl 1935
Chelmsford 1941
Ingatestone 1950 2000
Newbury Park 2040 2054
Liverpool St 2118

Which, although it wouldn't let me get to Paddington in time, is direct,
and an hour and a minute from Colchester to Liverpool Street.

TWO hours and a minute!


I'm going to send an email to One, but in the meantime, any ideas
gratefully received!

Bonus question: to get from Newbury Park to Swindon, should i do:

- Central Line to Liverpool Street, H&C/Circle to Paddington, train to Swindon
- Central Line to Oxford Circus, Bakerloo to Paddington, train to Swindon
- Central Line to Lancaster Gate, walk to Paddington, train to Swindon
- Central Line to Ealing Broadway, train(s) to Swindon


1 or 3 - no point playing with the Bakerloo if you are prepared to walk
from LG, and your Swindon train will not be stopping at EB, so...

Eric

On 10 Dec, 21:39, "Peter Smyth" wrote:
"Tom Anderson" wrote:


Evening all,

Rambling and slightly self-indulgent post, sorry. Feel free to ignore!

I would really rather like to make a 150-mile journey across the country
on Christmas Eve, from Wivenhoe (near Colchester, out in Essex) to
Swindon. Oh, the joys of the fissioned nuclear family.

If i ask the NR journey planner about this, it says (and this is the last
train, which is not quite what i'd actually be aiming for, but for the
sake of argument):

Leg 1 of 4
Depart: 18:16 Wivenhoe (WIV)
Arrive: 18:37 Colchester (COL)
Travel By: Train
Duration: 0:21

Leg 2 of 4
Depart: 18:40 Colchester (COL)
Arrive: 20:20 London Liverpool Street (LST)
Travel By: Rail replacement bus
Duration: 1:40

Leg 3 of 4
Depart: 20:20 London Liverpool Street (LST)
Arrive: 21:15 London Paddington (PAD)
Travel By: Underground #
Duration: 0:55

Leg 4 of 4
Depart: 21:30 London Paddington (PAD)
Arrive: 22:31 Swindon (Wilts) (SWI)
Duration: 1:01

Total Journey Duration: 4:15

In other words, bustitution all the way from Colchester to Liverpool
Street, taking 1:40 (if you believe that) for what would usually be just
under an hour.

But when i look at the One website (One being the company who run the
Great Eastern trains - still a stupid name) to find out why there's
bustitution, it tells me this:

http://www.onerailway.com/latest_inf...07_engineering...

And also this:

http://www.onerailway.com/content/do...ile/Advance+Wa...

Both of which indicate that it's down to works at various points along the
line from Shenfield to Liverpool Street, and that trains will be running
as far as the charming town of Ingatestone, with a bus from there to
Newbury Park (!), from where you can get the tube. So no bus ride from
Colchester to London.

I should point out that the NR planner gives the same route if i leave at
lunchtime, so this is not some late-on-christmas-eve thing.

What am i missing? Is the Journey Planner wrong, am i getting my dates and
times mixed up, is the Journey Planner presenting the three-mode leg from
Colchester to Liverpool Street as a bus for simplicity?

Does anyone know for sure what's happening in terms of trains and buses?

If you look at the page for Norwich http://www.onerailway.com/latest_inf...07_engineering...
it shows the buses from Colchester to Liverpool St given by the NR planner.

I guess One are trying to spread the load over different routes although it
seems a bit sneaky to not tell people about all the possible alternatives.

Peter Smyth


I came across a similar situation a few years back on a Norwich to
London journey. Information gleaned from two calls to NRE, a
consultation of the NR WAP site and a conversation with someone else
doing that journey resulted in me being confused!

I though we were to get tipped out of the train at Ingatestone (or was
it Shenfield - I can't remember!), on to a bus to a station closer
somewhere else, then back on a train to get into Liverpool Street. In
fact when I got to Ingatestone all the London-bound passengers were
herded on to a coach direct to Liverpool Street. I think I could have
got a bus then got back on the train, but I opted for the easy way.

So the OP might have to be on the ball when they get to Ingatestone if
they want to get to Newbury Park. Presumably, technically speaking if
he wants to get on the rail replacement bus to Newbury Park tube
station he'd need a rail ticket valid for at least some of the journey
beyond Ingatestone - but I doubt anyone would check his ticket before
they let him on the bus.

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Peter Smyth wrote:

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
.li...

Does anyone know for sure what's happening in terms of trains and buses?

If you look at the page for Norwich
http://www.onerailway.com/latest_inf...wich_to_london
it shows the buses from Colchester to Liverpool St given by the NR planner.

AHA! Good thinking! Thanks!

I guess One are trying to spread the load over different routes although
it seems a bit sneaky to not tell people about all the possible
alternatives.

Yes, it would have been easy enough to show the coaches on the timetable
alongside the other options. Boo!

tom

--
.... to build a space elevator, that's got to be hundreds of thousands
of pounds ... -- Mike Froggatt