Megabus/trains getting off early??
 

Have relatives in Guildford, and would like to visit more often. A
cheap day return is £11.50. But looking at megabus.com I can get a
train ticket for Portsmouth which stops at Guildford on the way. Is
there anything stopping me from booking with megabus far in advance
and getting the ticket for £2 return and using it to get to Guildford
and back again? Also how would I explain it to the guide at the ticket
barrier? Many thanks,

Megabus/trains getting off early??
 

On 9 Jan, 23:14, Dave wrote:
Have relatives in Guildford, and would like to visit more often. A
cheap day return is £11.50. But looking at megabus.com I can get a
train ticket for Portsmouth which stops at Guildford on the way. Is
there anything stopping me from booking with megabus far in advance
and getting the ticket for £2 return and using it to get to Guildford
and back again? Also how would I explain it to the guide at the ticket
barrier? Many thanks,

[assuming you're travelling from London]

With a Megatrain ticket alone, this wouldn't be allowed - the ticket
would become void when you left the train at Guildford, and therefore
you'd be in line for a penalty fare at the barrier.

However, it would be perfectly legitimate for you to also purchase a
£3.30 CDR from Woking to Guildford before boarding the train at
Waterloo (all London - Guildford - Portsmouth trains stop at Woking,
barring weird engineering chaos), and use that to escape the
station... this way, there is no part of your journey that isn't
covered by a valid ticket, just some parts that are double-covered.

You'd probably /get away/ with purchasing a £2.30 CDR from Shalford to
Guildford, which I think is the cheapest return fare it's possible to
get to/from Guildford, but this would be a bit higher-risk if you were
manually inspected (since nobody in their right mind would actually
make that journey, and you'd have clearly got off the wrong train for
it). You're not necessarily in the wrong, since you haven't actually /
travelled/ anywhere without a valid ticket, but I'm not sure I'd want
to chance the argument.

In any case, the main problem would be the return trip - I don't know
how strictly the rules are enforced on board, but officially if you
don't turn up at Pompey for your return leg, the ticket is completely
void and so you wouldn't have a valid ticket between (Guildford/Woking
depending on strategy above) and London.

NB I also have relatives in Guildford and make this journey relatively
often. If you have a Z12 Gold Card, it costs £6.20 (ticket from either
Clapham Junction or BZ2, plus 1/3 discount). If it's a Gold Card that
covers more zones, the journey will probably be even cheaper. If not,
then you might still benefit from a Network Railcard, which would cut
the price from Waterloo to £10 on weekdays and £7.70 at weekends.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Megabus/trains getting off early??
 

John B wrote:
On 9 Jan, 23:14, Dave wrote:
Have relatives in Guildford, and would like to visit more often. A
cheap day return is £11.50. But looking at megabus.com I can get a
train ticket for Portsmouth which stops at Guildford on the way. Is
there anything stopping me from booking with megabus far in advance
and getting the ticket for £2 return and using it to get to Guildford
and back again?

It's disallowed under the rules.

However, it would be perfectly legitimate for you to also purchase a
£3.30 CDR from Woking to Guildford before boarding the train at
Waterloo (all London - Guildford - Portsmouth trains stop at Woking,
barring weird engineering chaos), and use that to escape the
station... this way, there is no part of your journey that isn't
covered by a valid ticket, just some parts that are double-covered.

I wouldn't recommend trying this. The railways regularly manage to catch
people who do things like buy Woking-Guildford tickets when they started
at London. If you get caught in one of those stings, then they'd want to
see that you have a valid ticket London-Woking. You don't.
--
Michael Hoffman

Megabus/trains getting off early??
 

On 10 Jan, 00:17, Michael Hoffman wrote:
Have relatives in Guildford, and would like to visit more often. A
cheap day return is £11.50. But looking at megabus.com I can get a
train ticket for Portsmouth which stops at Guildford on the way. Is
there anything stopping me from booking with megabus far in advance
and getting the ticket for £2 return and using it to get to Guildford
and back again?

It's disallowed under the rules.

However, it would be perfectly legitimate for you to also purchase a
£3.30 CDR from Woking to Guildford before boarding the train at
Waterloo (all London - Guildford - Portsmouth trains stop at Woking,
barring weird engineering chaos), and use that to escape the
station... this way, there is no part of your journey that isn't
covered by a valid ticket, just some parts that are double-covered.

I wouldn't recommend trying this. The railways regularly manage to catch
people who do things like buy Woking-Guildford tickets when they started
at London. If you get caught in one of those stings, then they'd want to
see that you have a valid ticket London-Woking. You don't.

The railways catch people who buy Woking-Guildford tickets when they
started at London by carrying out ticket checks between London and
Woking. At which point, our man has a perfectly valid Megatrain
ticket.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Megabus/trains getting off early??
 

John B wrote:
On 10 Jan, 00:17, Michael Hoffman wrote:
Have relatives in Guildford, and would like to visit more often. A
cheap day return is £11.50. But looking at megabus.com I can get a
train ticket for Portsmouth which stops at Guildford on the way. Is
there anything stopping me from booking with megabus far in advance
and getting the ticket for £2 return and using it to get to Guildford
and back again?
It's disallowed under the rules.

However, it would be perfectly legitimate for you to also purchase a
£3.30 CDR from Woking to Guildford before boarding the train at
Waterloo (all London - Guildford - Portsmouth trains stop at Woking,
barring weird engineering chaos), and use that to escape the
station... this way, there is no part of your journey that isn't
covered by a valid ticket, just some parts that are double-covered.
I wouldn't recommend trying this. The railways regularly manage to catch
people who do things like buy Woking-Guildford tickets when they started
at London. If you get caught in one of those stings, then they'd want to
see that you have a valid ticket London-Woking. You don't.

The railways catch people who buy Woking-Guildford tickets when they
started at London by carrying out ticket checks between London and
Woking. At which point, our man has a perfectly valid Megatrain
ticket.

That's not what I'm talking about.
--
Michael Hoffman

Megabus/trains getting off early??
 

On 9 Jan, 23:51, John B wrote:
On 9 Jan, 23:14, Dave wrote:

Have relatives in Guildford, and would like to visit more often. A
cheap day return is £11.50. But looking at megabus.com I can get a
train ticket for Portsmouth which stops at Guildford on the way. Is
there anything stopping me from booking with megabus far in advance
and getting the ticket for £2 return and using it to get to Guildford
and back again? Also how would I explain it to the guide at the ticket
barrier? Many thanks,

[assuming you're travelling from London]

With a Megatrain ticket alone, this wouldn't be allowed - the ticket
would become void when you left the train at Guildford, and therefore
you'd be in line for a penalty fare at the barrier.

However, it would be perfectly legitimate for you to also purchase a
£3.30 CDR from Woking to Guildford before boarding the train at
Waterloo (all London - Guildford - Portsmouth trains stop at Woking,
barring weird engineering chaos), and use that to escape the
station... this way, there is no part of your journey that isn't
covered by a valid ticket, just some parts that are double-covered.

You'd probably /get away/ with purchasing a £2.30 CDR from Shalford to
Guildford, which I think is the cheapest return fare it's possible to
get to/from Guildford, but this would be a bit higher-risk if you were
manually inspected (since nobody in their right mind would actually
make that journey, and you'd have clearly got off the wrong train for
it). You're not necessarily in the wrong, since you haven't actually /
travelled/ anywhere without a valid ticket, but I'm not sure I'd want
to chance the argument.

In any case, the main problem would be the return trip - I don't know
how strictly the rules are enforced on board, but officially if you
don't turn up at Pompey for your return leg, the ticket is completely
void and so you wouldn't have a valid ticket between (Guildford/Woking
depending on strategy above) and London.

NB I also have relatives in Guildford and make this journey relatively
often. If you have a Z12 Gold Card, it costs £6.20 (ticket from either
Clapham Junction or BZ2, plus 1/3 discount). If it's a Gold Card that
covers more zones, the journey will probably be even cheaper. If not,
then you might still benefit from a Network Railcard, which would cut
the price from Waterloo to £10 on weekdays and £7.70 at weekends.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot orgwww.johnband.org

Great thanks for the advice. I suppose the only problem I have is
getting in and out of the station at Guildford. I suppose as you said
I could buy the cheapest ticket from anywhere to Guildford just so I
get out the ticket barrier. Then on my return journey I could just buy
the cheapest ticket to any station from Guildford. It's a cool plan as
long as I get on the right trains to and from Portsmouth. Yes, sorry I
am travelling from London Waterloo.

Thanks for your help.

Megabus/trains getting off early??
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On 9 Jan, 23:51, John B wrote:
On 9 Jan, 23:14, Dave wrote:

Have relatives in Guildford, and would like to visit more often. A
cheap day return is £11.50. But looking at megabus.com I can get a
train ticket for Portsmouth which stops at Guildford on the way. Is
there anything stopping me from booking with megabus far in advance
and getting the ticket for £2 return and using it to get to Guildford
and back again? Also how would I explain it to the guide at the ticket
barrier? Many thanks,

[assuming you're travelling from London]

With a Megatrain ticket alone, this wouldn't be allowed - the ticket
would become void when you left the train at Guildford, and therefore
you'd be in line for a penalty fare at the barrier.

However, it would be perfectly legitimate for you to also purchase a
£3.30 CDR from Woking to Guildford before boarding the train at
Waterloo (all London - Guildford - Portsmouth trains stop at Woking,
barring weird engineering chaos), and use that to escape the
station... this way, there is no part of your journey that isn't
covered by a valid ticket, just some parts that are double-covered.

You'd probably /get away/ with purchasing a £2.30 CDR from Shalford to
Guildford, which I think is the cheapest return fare it's possible to
get to/from Guildford, but this would be a bit higher-risk if you were
manually inspected (since nobody in their right mind would actually
make that journey, and you'd have clearly got off the wrong train for
it). You're not necessarily in the wrong, since you haven't actually /
travelled/ anywhere without a valid ticket, but I'm not sure I'd want
to chance the argument.

In any case, the main problem would be the return trip - I don't know
how strictly the rules are enforced on board, but officially if you
don't turn up at Pompey for your return leg, the ticket is completely
void and so you wouldn't have a valid ticket between (Guildford/Woking
depending on strategy above) and London.

NB I also have relatives in Guildford and make this journey relatively
often. If you have a Z12 Gold Card, it costs £6.20 (ticket from either
Clapham Junction or BZ2, plus 1/3 discount). If it's a Gold Card that
covers more zones, the journey will probably be even cheaper. If not,
then you might still benefit from a Network Railcard, which would cut
the price from Waterloo to £10 on weekdays and £7.70 at weekends.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot orgwww.johnband.org

Great thanks for the advice. I suppose the only problem I have is
getting in and out of the station at Guildford. I suppose as you said
I could buy the cheapest ticket from anywhere to Guildford just so I
get out the ticket barrier. Then on my return journey I could just buy
the cheapest ticket to any station from Guildford. It's a cool plan as
long as I get on the right trains to and from Portsmouth. Yes, sorry I
am travelling from London Waterloo.


I think you've missed the point that you can't use the return portion of the
megatrain because you aren't boarding at Pompey.

Michael



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Megabus/trains getting off early??
 

On 10 Jan, 08:40, "Michael Hopkins" noSPAM@NOspam wrote:
"Dave" wrote in message
Great thanks for the advice. I suppose the only problem I have is
getting in and out of the station at Guildford. I suppose as you said
I could buy the cheapest ticket from anywhere to Guildford just so I
get out the ticket barrier. Then on my return journey I could just buy
the cheapest ticket to any station from Guildford. It's a cool plan as
long as I get on the right trains to and from Portsmouth. Yes, sorry I
am travelling from London Waterloo.

I think you've missed the point that you can't use the return portion of the
megatrain because you aren't boarding at Pompey.

Indeed - this is a real risk, especially if the SWT guard stops you
between Woking and London rather than Guildford and Woking (more
likely, given that the latter is only a 5 minute journey), as then you
won't have a valid ticket covering the journey you're on and will have
to pay a penalty fare.

I suppose you could try and find the guard between Guildford and
Woking and ask him if he minds, at least that way the worst that can
happen is you have to pay for a single from Woking to London.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Megabus/trains getting off early??
 

On 10 Jan, 02:02, Michael Hoffman wrote:
I wouldn't recommend trying this. The railways regularly manage to catch
people who do things like buy Woking-Guildford tickets when they started
at London. If you get caught in one of those stings, then they'd want to
see that you have a valid ticket London-Woking. You don't.

The railways catch people who buy Woking-Guildford tickets when they
started at London by carrying out ticket checks between London and
Woking. At which point, our man has a perfectly valid Megatrain
ticket.

That's not what I'm talking about.

Hmm. I understand the /kind/ of operations you're talking about, but
they're extremely unlikely to be relevant he SWT Portsmouth
services always have a ticket check between London and Woking, so
there's absolutely no point in carrying out the kind of raids that it /
is/ worth doing between barriered stations on OPO trains.

(in any case, the problem for the OP in this case isn't being caught
in a raid, because there is no point on the journey when he doesn't
have a valid ticket. It's just about not getting into a fight with the
chap on the barriers)

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Megabus/trains getting off early??
 

John B wrote:

Hmm. I understand the /kind/ of operations you're talking about, but
they're extremely unlikely to be relevant he SWT Portsmouth
services always have a ticket check between London and Woking, so
there's absolutely no point in carrying out the kind of raids that it /
is/ worth doing between barriered stations on OPO trains.

Except to catch this kind of thing.

(in any case, the problem for the OP in this case isn't being caught
in a raid, because there is no point on the journey when he doesn't
have a valid ticket.

He doesn't have a valid ticket London-Woking. It just won't be possible
to prove that until after-the-fact.
--
Michael Hoffman

Megabus/trains getting off early??
 

On 10 Jan, 09:43, John B wrote:
because there is no point on the journey when he doesn't
have a valid ticket.

I've never used Megatrain, but AIUI you don't ever get issued with a
ticket. The staff at Portsmouth will tick you off a passenger list
when you arrive (or rather, won't). What you need to know is whether
that list is referred to by ticket staff later, either on the train or
at Waterloo.

U

Megabus/trains getting off early??
 

On 10 Jan, 10:12, Michael Hoffman wrote:
Hmm. I understand the /kind/ of operations you're talking about, but
they're extremely unlikely to be relevant he SWT Portsmouth
services always have a ticket check between London and Woking, so
there's absolutely no point in carrying out the kind of raids that it /
is/ worth doing between barriered stations on OPO trains.

Except to catch this kind of thing.

You think SWT employ dedicated security patrols to stop people not-
actually-breaking-the-law by doing dubious things with Megatrain
tickets? You're having a laugh, right...?

(in any case, the problem for the OP in this case isn't being caught
in a raid, because there is no point on the journey when he doesn't
have a valid ticket.

He doesn't have a valid ticket London-Woking. It just won't be possible
to prove that until after-the-fact.

The only thing that the Megatrain T&Cs say [http://www.megatrain.com/
uk/help/smallprint.php] is:

"Bookings are only valid on the journey(s) and places stated."

I wouldn't envy the lawyer whose brief was to show, based on that
wording, that our man was travelling without a valid ticket between
London and Woking. Even on a balance of probabilities, never mind
reasonable doubt...

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Megabus/trains getting off early??
 

John B wrote:

You think SWT employ dedicated security patrols to stop people not-
actually-breaking-the-law by doing dubious things with Megatrain
tickets? You're having a laugh, right...?

Who knows? All I know is that many people have been caught out by
railway stings when they thought that they had some sort of undetectable
scheme. You can read uk.railway and uk.legal archives for more.

If many of people start making a habit of this kind of scheme involving
Megatrain (or already have), I bet SWT *will* start operating stings to
catch it.

Anyway, they don't even have to do this for you to get caught. It'll be
enough that you bought a ticket outside Woking that never went through
the ticket gates at Woking.

The only thing that the Megatrain T&Cs say [http://www.megatrain.com/
uk/help/smallprint.php] is:

"Bookings are only valid on the journey(s) and places stated."

That makes it clear that break of journey is prohibited, and therefore
NRCC paragraph 6 forbids ending the journey at an intermediate station
without paying an excess fare. Now SWT just needs to prove that the OP
intended to avoid paying this fare (for example, by buying another
ticket that would let him through the barriers).

I wouldn't envy the lawyer whose brief was to show, based on that
wording, that our man was travelling without a valid ticket between
London and Woking. Even on a balance of probabilities, never mind
reasonable doubt...

The lawyer would also have the NRCC. And I think on that buying another
ticket to cover a part of the journey that under your legal theory would
already be paid for in order to get past the ticket gates would be seen
as evidence of deception.

Actually I think it would be easy to convict, you are right when you say
being caught is less likely (but still possible). The question is
whether it is worth it?
--
Michael Hoffman

Megabus/trains getting off early??
 

"Michael Hoffman" wrote in message
...
John B wrote:
On 9 Jan, 23:14, Dave wrote:
Have relatives in Guildford, and would like to visit more often. A
cheap day return is £11.50. But looking at megabus.com I can get a
train ticket for Portsmouth which stops at Guildford on the way. Is
there anything stopping me from booking with megabus far in advance
and getting the ticket for £2 return and using it to get to Guildford
and back again?

It's disallowed under the rules.

However, it would be perfectly legitimate for you to also purchase a
£3.30 CDR from Woking to Guildford before boarding the train at
Waterloo (all London - Guildford - Portsmouth trains stop at Woking,
barring weird engineering chaos), and use that to escape the
station... this way, there is no part of your journey that isn't
covered by a valid ticket, just some parts that are double-covered.

I wouldn't recommend trying this. The railways regularly manage to catch
people who do things like buy Woking-Guildford tickets when they started
at London. If you get caught in one of those stings, then they'd want to
see that you have a valid ticket London-Woking. You don't.

I don't think anyone has mentioned that the 'Megatrain' ticket holders on
the mainline services have a dedicated coach. It makes it easier for the
guard to watch the comings and goings at intermediate stations...

Paul

Megabus/trains getting off early??
 

On 10 Jan, 11:47, Michael Hoffman wrote:
The only thing that the Megatrain T&Cs say [http://www.megatrain.com/
uk/help/smallprint.php] is:

"Bookings are only valid on the journey(s) and places stated."

That makes it clear that break of journey is prohibited, and therefore
NRCC paragraph 6 forbids ending the journey at an intermediate station
without paying an excess fare.

ITYM 16. That's interesting.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system...misc/NRCOC.pdf

However, I'm still not convinced that...

A) "Bookings are only valid on the journey(s) and places stated"

....and...

B) "[the right to stop short] may not apply to some types of tickets
for which a break of journey is prohibited, in which case the relevant
Train Companies will make this clear in their notices and other
publications."

....together amount to "the right to stop short does not apply to
Megatrain" - I don't believe that A "maks clear" that "break of
journey is prohibited".

If Megatrain's condition A had the second sentence "break of journey
is prohibited", then it would. Presumably it's oversight rather than
any deliberate desire to create a loophole.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Megabus/trains getting off early??
 

John B wrote:

If Megatrain's condition A had the second sentence "break of journey
is prohibited", then it would. Presumably it's oversight rather than
any deliberate desire to create a loophole.

It also says on their web site on the "Travel by Train" page:

"""
My reservation states the main terminus; can I board elsewhere?
Please note that the departure and arrival times displayed are for the
main terminus points you selected. You must board and alight at these
points, and it is a condition of travel on megatrain that you may not
board or alight at other points on the route. If travelling on services
operated by East Midlands Trains, you will be charged the full single
fare for the actual journey made. On services operated by South West
trains Penalty fares will apply if passengers alight or board at other
points along the route.

Why can't I get on or off the train at intermediate stations?
megatrain is a simple low-cost inter-city fare like the successful
megabus which has been run by Stagecoach for over two years. It is not
expected to be highly profitable and must attract a good number of new
customers to justify itself. In order to do that, it needs to be kept
simple for passengers booking and simple for our staff to implement and
monitor. Therefore, megatrain is only being offered on lightly loaded
trains and between certain origins and destinations only. Should the
extension of the initial megatrain routes prove popular with our
passengers, we may extend to offer to more places.
"""

I think it's pretty clear that they intend that you shouldn't be able to
break your journey, and they've publicized this in their notices. If you
think otherwise, see if you can convince the magistrates.
--
Michael Hoffman

Megabus/trains getting off early??
 

On 10 Jan, 15:35, Michael Hoffman wrote:
If Megatrain's condition A had the second sentence "break of journey
is prohibited", then it would. Presumably it's oversight rather than
any deliberate desire to create a loophole.

It also says on their web site on the "Travel by Train" page:

"""
My reservation states the main terminus; can I board elsewhere?
Please note that the departure and arrival times displayed are for the
main terminus points you selected. You must board and alight at these
points, and it is a condition of travel on megatrain that you may not
board or alight at other points on the route. If travelling on services
operated by East Midlands Trains, you will be charged the full single
fare for the actual journey made. On services operated by South West
trains Penalty fares will apply if passengers alight or board at other
points along the route.

Didn't spot that. I wonder if it's possible to buy a Megatrain ticket
without that wording appearing on your browser? - it seems reasonable
to expect the customer to refer to the NCoC and the Megatrain T&Cs,
but not also to their website FAQ.

Why can't I get on or off the train at intermediate stations?
megatrain is a simple low-cost inter-city fare like the successful
megabus which has been run by Stagecoach for over two years. It is not
expected to be highly profitable and must attract a good number of new
customers to justify itself. In order to do that, it needs to be kept
simple for passengers booking and simple for our staff to implement and
monitor. Therefore, megatrain is only being offered on lightly loaded
trains and between certain origins and destinations only. Should the
extension of the initial megatrain routes prove popular with our
passengers, we may extend to offer to more places.
"""

After about a year, I've finally worked out what they mean: "we don't
want to have to give all our station bods network-wide a list of
numbers to tick off against people who claim they need to go through
the gate to get on the Megatrain, and we certainly don't want any old
fare-dodger to be able to pretend to have a Megatrain not-ticket as an
excuse". Roll on SMS confirmation...

I think it's pretty clear that they intend that you shouldn't be able to
break your journey, and they've publicized this in their notices. If you
think otherwise, see if you can convince the magistrates.

Hmm. I'd probably not do the OP's journey, not least because it's only
six quid to get to Guildford and back anyway. However, I'd certainly
have bought a Megatrain ticket from [say] Edinburgh to Morpeth if I
were going to Berwick [or similar "small local station where going to
the 'official' stop and returning would be a ridiculous journey] and
taken my chances.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Megabus/trains getting off early??
 

John B wrote:

After about a year, I've finally worked out what they mean: "we don't
want to have to give all our station bods network-wide a list of
numbers to tick off against people who claim they need to go through
the gate to get on the Megatrain, and we certainly don't want any old
fare-dodger to be able to pretend to have a Megatrain not-ticket as an
excuse".

You give them too much credit. I think the real answer can be found he

http://tutor2u.net/economics/revisio...imination.html

Airlines charging more to go AAA-BBB than to go AAA-BBB-CCC has long
been a classic example of price discrimination.
--
Michael Hoffman

Megabus/trains getting off early??
 

On 10 Jan, 16:20, Michael Hoffman wrote:
John B wrote:
After about a year, I've finally worked out what they mean: "we don't
want to have to give all our station bods network-wide a list of
numbers to tick off against people who claim they need to go through
the gate to get on the Megatrain, and we certainly don't want any old
fare-dodger to be able to pretend to have a Megatrain not-ticket as an
excuse".

You give them too much credit. I think the real answer can be found he

http://tutor2u.net/economics/revisio...ice-discrimina...

Airlines charging more to go AAA-BBB than to go AAA-BBB-CCC has long
been a classic example of price discrimination.

I understand the concept, but I'm not sure it's relevant for Megatrain
(which is precisely why I was previously confused).

If it were doing complex airline-style price discrimination, it would
sell cheap tickets between minor stations, and more expensive tickets
between major stations. And it probably wouldn't cover the initial
London legs at all (since any given train in SWT-land will be busiest
on its first half-hour out/last half-hour into London, and since
London has the highest concentration of people who want to go from
[anywhere] to Y) - rather, you'd fill capacity with Guildford-
Portsmouth, Farncombe-Havant... etc... customers.

Instead, it achieves the opposite. Which makes me think that it's not
complex discrimination, but just a way of filling a few empty seats
very very cheaply to the company (and to the passengers, of course).

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Megabus/trains getting off early??
 

John B wrote:

Instead, it achieves the opposite. Which makes me think that it's not
complex discrimination, but just a way of filling a few empty seats
very very cheaply to the company (and to the passengers, of course).

That's exactly what price discrimination does, it allows them to fill
empty seats with cheaper tickets without abstracting away revenue they
already have. It's designed specifically to keep people like the OP from
doing what he wants to do.
--
Michael Hoffman

Megabus/trains getting off early??
 

On 10 Jan, 18:03, Michael Hoffman wrote:
Instead, it achieves the opposite. Which makes me think that it's not
complex discrimination, but just a way of filling a few empty seats
very very cheaply to the company (and to the passengers, of course).

That's exactly what price discrimination does, it allows them to fill
empty seats with cheaper tickets without abstracting away revenue they
already have. It's designed specifically to keep people like the OP from
doing what he wants to do.

Yes of course, but if the restrictions were demand-based, they would
not have chosen the restrictions they have chosen.

It is possible they would still not have covered London - Guildford
journeys. But it's certain that they would have allowed Guildford -
Portsmouth journeys, because that's the point when the train is
emptiest and the cannibalisation is most limited - even compared to
London - Portsmouth journeys, which they currently do allow.

But Guildford - Portsmouth is not covered - and indeed, the list of
stations you *can* travel between is almost the opposite of the list
of stations you would find if their primary aim was purely to fill
empty seats with cheap tickets and not abstract revenue.

Rather, their aim is to do that as much as they can /without imposing
any additional costs on the business/, and that is what determines the
stations they're serving.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Megabus/trains getting off early??
 

John B wrote:

But Guildford - Portsmouth is not covered - and indeed, the list of
stations you *can* travel between is almost the opposite of the list
of stations you would find if their primary aim was purely to fill
empty seats with cheap tickets and not abstract revenue.

Rather, their aim is to do that as much as they can /without imposing
any additional costs on the business/, and that is what determines the
stations they're serving.

Agreed. But I think the price discrimination rationale explains why they
would be annoyed if someone followed the advice you gave upthread.
--
Michael Hoffman

Megabus/trains getting off early??
 

In article
,
John B writes
That makes it clear that break of journey is prohibited, and therefore
NRCC paragraph 6 forbids ending the journey at an intermediate station
without paying an excess fare.

ITYM 16. That's interesting.

B) "[the right to stop short] may not apply to some types of tickets
for which a break of journey is prohibited, in which case the relevant
Train Companies will make this clear in their notices and other
publications."

Michael is reading too much into NCoC 16. It makes three separate
statements:
(1) There exist tickets that don't allow stopping short/starting late.
(2) All such tickets also prohibit Break of Journey.
(3) It will be made clear if you have such a ticket.

I'm not commenting on (3) with respect to Megatrain, but statement (2)
is *not* what Michael says it is. In particular, there are tickets where
BoJ is forbidden but stopping short or starting late is not.

The important bit of (2) is actually its contrapositive:
(2') All tickets that allow Break of Journey also allow stopping short
or starting late.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
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Megabus/trains getting off early??
 

Clive D. W. Feather wrote:

Michael is reading too much into NCoC 16. It makes three separate
statements:
(1) There exist tickets that don't allow stopping short/starting late.
(2) All such tickets also prohibit Break of Journey.
(3) It will be made clear if you have such a ticket.

I'm not commenting on (3) with respect to Megatrain, but statement (2)
is *not* what Michael says it is. In particular, there are tickets where
BoJ is forbidden but stopping short or starting late is not.

I take your point. The use of the word "may" is key.

In any case, break of journey is still prohibited on these tickets, and
Megatrain isn't authorizing stopping short or starting late.
--
Michael Hoffman