The barriers at Euston platforms 8-11 cannot cope
 

On 27 Feb, 13:59, MIG wrote:
On 27 Feb, 13:11, Mizter T wrote:



On 27 Feb, 12:47, Jamie Thompson wrote:

On 27 Feb, 12:35, Mr Thant
wrote:

You could also have trains stop at Queen's Park to relieve pressure on
the terminus, like Finsbury Park does for King's Cross.

You'd be better off doing so at Willesden Junction, if it had its
platforms again. Much better connections to be had there.

But of course it doesn't have any platforms, nor any remnants of the
old platforms. Queen's Park has platforms already standing and ready
for use.

Past comments here have suggested that timetabling requirements would
mean stopping at QP would be quite awkward.

For the future, when everything gets sent to Camden or the Bakerloo, I
keep on suggesting a new crossover to the east of Queens Park and a
service from Euston doing South Hampstead, Kilburn High Road, Queens
Park, Wembley, Harrow, Wembley, Watford and wherever. That would save
two stations losing a service to Euston, and it could replace current
semi fasts. They'd be out of the way till Queens Park, from where
they'd take an existing semi fast path.

It seems to me that putting in a crossover in the meantime, in
anticipation of the change, could be used to allow stopping at Queens
Park and then getting out of the way via the electric tracks to avoid
holdups. The electric tracks aren't exactly overused from Euston to
Queen's Park after all.


Interesting idea. Any stock used for such a service would need to be
dual voltage, or otherwise the whole DC line from QP into Euston would
need to have OHLE installed.

The barriers at Euston platforms 8-11 cannot cope
 

On 27 Feb, 14:12, Mizter T wrote:
On 27 Feb, 13:59, MIG wrote:



On 27 Feb, 13:11, Mizter T wrote:

On 27 Feb, 12:47, Jamie Thompson wrote:

On 27 Feb, 12:35, Mr Thant
wrote:

You could also have trains stop at Queen's Park to relieve pressure on
the terminus, like Finsbury Park does for King's Cross.

You'd be better off doing so at Willesden Junction, if it had its
platforms again. Much better connections to be had there.

But of course it doesn't have any platforms, nor any remnants of the
old platforms. Queen's Park has platforms already standing and ready
for use.

Past comments here have suggested that timetabling requirements would
mean stopping at QP would be quite awkward.

For the future, when everything gets sent to Camden or the Bakerloo, I
keep on suggesting a new crossover to the east of Queens Park and a
service from Euston doing South Hampstead, Kilburn High Road, Queens
Park, Wembley, Harrow, Wembley, Watford and wherever. That would save
two stations losing a service to Euston, and it could replace current
semi fasts. They'd be out of the way till Queens Park, from where
they'd take an existing semi fast path.

It seems to me that putting in a crossover in the meantime, in
anticipation of the change, could be used to allow stopping at Queens
Park and then getting out of the way via the electric tracks to avoid
holdups. The electric tracks aren't exactly overused from Euston to
Queen's Park after all.

Interesting idea. Any stock used for such a service would need to be
dual voltage, or otherwise the whole DC line from QP into Euston would
need to have OHLE installed.


Also if all trains on the slow main lines out of Euston are non-
stopping until Harrow & Wealdstone at the least, then unless they
break down they are not clogging anything up, so there's nothing to be
gained from shifting some to the DC line until they get to QP.
Additionally the stop at QP on the slow main lines would clog those
lines up.

The barriers at Euston platforms 8-11 cannot cope
 

On 27 Feb, 14:12, Mizter T wrote:
Interesting idea. Any stock used for such a service would need to be
dual voltage, or otherwise the whole DC line from QP into Euston would
need to have OHLE installed.

The AC/DC line! Rock!

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

The barriers at Euston platforms 8-11 cannot cope
 

On 27 Feb, 14:22, Mizter T wrote:
On 27 Feb, 14:12, Mizter T wrote:





On 27 Feb, 13:59, MIG wrote:

On 27 Feb, 13:11, Mizter T wrote:

On 27 Feb, 12:47, Jamie *Thompson wrote:

On 27 Feb, 12:35, Mr Thant
wrote:

You could also have trains stop at Queen's Park to relieve pressure on
the terminus, like Finsbury Park does for King's Cross.

You'd be better off doing so at Willesden Junction, if it had its
platforms again. Much better connections to be had there.

But of course it doesn't have any platforms, nor any remnants of the
old platforms. Queen's Park has platforms already standing and ready
for use.

Past comments here have suggested that timetabling requirements would
mean stopping at QP would be quite awkward.

For the future, when everything gets sent to Camden or the Bakerloo, I
keep on suggesting a new crossover to the east of Queens Park and a
service from Euston doing South Hampstead, Kilburn High Road, Queens
Park, Wembley, Harrow, Wembley, Watford and wherever. *That would save
two stations losing a service to Euston, and it could replace current
semi fasts. *They'd be out of the way till Queens Park, from where
they'd take an existing semi fast path.

It seems to me that putting in a crossover in the meantime, in
anticipation of the change, could be used to allow stopping at Queens
Park and then getting out of the way via the electric tracks to avoid
holdups. *The electric tracks aren't exactly overused from Euston to
Queen's Park after all.

Interesting idea. Any stock used for such a service would need to be
dual voltage, or otherwise the whole DC line from QP into Euston would
need to have OHLE installed.

Also if all trains on the slow main lines out of Euston are non-
stopping until Harrow & Wealdstone at the least, then unless they
break down they are not clogging anything up, so there's nothing to be
gained from shifting some to the DC line until they get to QP.
Additionally the stop at QP on the slow main lines would clog those
lines up.

I was trying to think why a stop at Queens Park might mess up the
timetable, and I could only think that a stopping train would mess up
the headway of a subsequent non-stop into Euston, unless it nipped to
one side straight away.

You couldn't do it the other side of Queen's Park, with all those
Bakerloons.

In the long term, I think Queen's Park ought to be used to connect
Euston with Bakerloo and intermediate stations to Watford anyway, and
the crossover I suggested would maintain the service at the two
stations and allow overtaking till Primrose Hill.

The barriers at Euston platforms 8-11 cannot cope
 

On Feb 27, 2:49*pm, MIG wrote:
On 27 Feb, 14:22, Mizter T wrote:



On 27 Feb, 14:12, Mizter T wrote:

On 27 Feb, 13:59, MIG wrote:

On 27 Feb, 13:11, Mizter T wrote:

On 27 Feb, 12:47, Jamie *Thompson wrote:

On 27 Feb, 12:35, Mr Thant
wrote:

You could also have trains stop at Queen's Park to relieve pressure on
the terminus, like Finsbury Park does for King's Cross.

You'd be better off doing so at Willesden Junction, if it had its
platforms again. Much better connections to be had there.

But of course it doesn't have any platforms, nor any remnants of the
old platforms. Queen's Park has platforms already standing and ready
for use.

Past comments here have suggested that timetabling requirements would
mean stopping at QP would be quite awkward.

For the future, when everything gets sent to Camden or the Bakerloo, I
keep on suggesting a new crossover to the east of Queens Park and a
service from Euston doing South Hampstead, Kilburn High Road, Queens
Park, Wembley, Harrow, Wembley, Watford and wherever. *That would save
two stations losing a service to Euston, and it could replace current
semi fasts. *They'd be out of the way till Queens Park, from where
they'd take an existing semi fast path.

It seems to me that putting in a crossover in the meantime, in
anticipation of the change, could be used to allow stopping at Queens
Park and then getting out of the way via the electric tracks to avoid
holdups. *The electric tracks aren't exactly overused from Euston to
Queen's Park after all.

Interesting idea. Any stock used for such a service would need to be
dual voltage, or otherwise the whole DC line from QP into Euston would
need to have OHLE installed.

Also if all trains on the slow main lines out of Euston are non-
stopping until Harrow & Wealdstone at the least, then unless they
break down they are not clogging anything up, so there's nothing to be
gained from shifting some to the DC line until they get to QP.
Additionally the stop at QP on the slow main lines would clog those
lines up.

I was trying to think why a stop at Queens Park might mess up the
timetable, and I could only think that a stopping train would mess up
the headway of a subsequent non-stop into Euston, unless it nipped to
one side straight away.


I don't think that there is much reason that a Queens Park stop can't
be introduced. After all, the Southern services to Watford Junction
appear to be able to stop at Wembley Central in the peaks. The closest
that another train is behind a Harrow stopper is, I think, 5 mins (the
18.04 ex Euston stops at Harrow and is followed by the 18.09 first
stop Bushey), there are a couple of fast train that start 2-3 mins
before a Harrow stopper, but these wouldn't be affected. The other
considerations a the effect of a Queens Park stop on any freight
coming off the North London line at Camden or entering/exiting Wembley
yard. I have certainly been on London Midland services that have been
delayed in the peaks due to following a slightly out of path freight
(this happens both north and southbound) and the effect of an extra
stop on the paths for the Southern services which have a conflict with
slow line services at Sudbury Junction.

You couldn't do it the other side of Queen's Park, with all those
Bakerloons.

In the long term, I think Queen's Park ought to be used to connect
Euston with Bakerloo and intermediate stations to Watford anyway, and
the crossover I suggested would maintain the service at the two
stations and allow overtaking till Primrose Hill.

The barriers at Euston platforms 8-11 cannot cope
 

"Tim Woodall" wrote in message
.uk...
The barriers at Euston platforms 8-11 cannot cope with the volume of
people trying to get through them.

http://www.woodall.me.uk/img_00000010.jpeg
is a still from my bike camera (sorry the quality isn't very good but
gives some idea, especially if you already know the layout of these
platforms.)

This is about 07:25 (I arrived on the 07:01 from Watford Junction) so
this isn't the peak of the rush hour. Later trains you cannot get a seat
at Watford Junction unless you're lucky, let alone Harrow and
Wealdstone.

I'm approximately at the back of the crowd, there aren't that many
people behind me. But a fair few must have already gone through the
barrier before I got there because I sit at the extreme Northern end of
the train and unfold my bike before I walk down the platform.

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

It was always bad just after 8.00 with three almost simultaneous arrivals.
The dickheads on the gates would allow it to become dangerously overcrowded
then throw the gates open in an attempt to ease the crush. People trying to
enter to catch a train stood no chance. On a number of occasions I was
concerned enough to report the overcrowding to the Station Manager's office.
The worst occasion I saw was when a mother was trying to exit with a
toddler. It is a disgrace that the TOCs put revenue protection above peoples
safety.
There is always empty platfoms at that time so I could never understand why
they didn't put one of the arrivals into the platforms used by Virgin.
But they will allow this to continue until there is an incident the we will
here that "they have learnt lessons"

Kevin

Kevin

The barriers at Euston platforms 8-11 cannot cope
 

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 04:23:27 -0800 (PST),
Andy wrote:

In my view the main problem with the barriers at Euston is that there
is not enough space between the ticket gates and barrier at the end of
Platform 9 and 10. This means that people get jammed up before they
even reach the gates and so the exit gates on one side or the other
don't see so much use; there is also no easy route for anyone trying
to get onto a train. For example, if my train arrives in Platform 11
very few people will be using the gates on the platform 8 side (and
vice-versa). Then, as has already been said above, people using the
manual gate just get in the way, when they have no need to be using
it.

This is very true. Also, cyclists using the manual gate then have to
cross all the people coming through the barriers and going down to the
tube. Even worse if you come in on platforms 9 or 8 and a train comes in
on platforms 10 or 11, then you have to cross over twice.

I can understand why people don't want to have to get their season
ticket out. But a lot of the people who use the manual gate go down to
the underground where I presume they'll have to get the ticket out
anyway.

Finally, there is the problem of a ticket gate (or two) that is Oyster
only. So you get people getting to the gate and then realising that
they can't use it with their paper ticket, causing more distruption as
they push in to the next one. A bit more effort by Network Rail to fix
these might help things, as would moving the barriers at the end of
Platform 9 and 10 back a bit and shortening the platforms (the
platforms are 9-10 coaches and so the full length isn't used anyway).
A more radical solution would be to add some barriers in the dividing
wall between platform 8 and the bottom of the slope upto the
concourse, but that might be expensive.

It's the ticket office that makes things most difficult. Otherwise you
could put a gate line on the way up to the main concourse and another
going down to the tube. This would make some more space around the end
of platforms 9 and 10. Of course, then you'd probably need to have two
manual gates and twice as many staff.

Tim

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

The barriers at Euston platforms 8-11 cannot cope
 

On Feb 27, 9:44 am, somersetchris wrote:
On 26 Feb, 22:43, Tim Woodall wrote:



The barriers at Euston platforms 8-11 cannot cope with the volume of
people trying to get through them.

http://www.woodall.me.uk/img_00000010.jpeg
is a still from my bike camera (sorry the quality isn't very good but
gives some idea, especially if you already know the layout of these
platforms.)

This is about 07:25 (I arrived on the 07:01 from Watford Junction) so
this isn't the peak of the rush hour. Later trains you cannot get a seat
at Watford Junction unless you're lucky, let alone Harrow and
Wealdstone.

I'm approximately at the back of the crowd, there aren't that many
people behind me. But a fair few must have already gone through the
barrier before I got there because I sit at the extreme Northern end of
the train and unfold my bike before I walk down the platform.

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

The problem with Euston is that the staff will allow anyone and
everyone to use the gate and show their tickets. The gate is meant to
be for wheelchairs, bikes and passengers with large luggage. Using the
gate means that people do not have to take their season out of its
wallet. Or they can show a nectar card or whatever.
If the staff insisted on passengers using the barriers the flow
through would be a lot quicker. I think that the revenue would be a
lot greater as well.

I was paying more attention today to what causes the holdups and, for
trains arriving on platforms 10 and 11 at least, the people _queuing_
for the manual gate unnecessarily are part of the problem.

The crowd of people trying to get through the manual gate restrict the
flow of people who can get across to the automatic gates. There's
possibly twice as much capacity through the automatic gates available
as is being used, especially during rush hour when the majority of
people are experienced in using their tickets. You expect things to be
slower at weekends where many people are less practiced at getting
through the barriers.

It would be interesting to do some studies of how quickly busy train's
passengers get through the barriers when a train arrives at platform 8
compared to when it arrives at platform 11. I would predict that
passengers arriving at platform 8 exit the barriers more quickly than
trains arriving at platform 11.

Tim.

The barriers at Euston platforms 8-11 cannot cope
 

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008, Jamie Thompson wrote:

On 27 Feb, 12:35, Mr Thant
wrote:

You could also have trains stop at Queen's Park to relieve pressure on
the terminus, like Finsbury Park does for King's Cross.

You'd be better off doing so at Willesden Junction, if it had its
platforms again. Much better connections to be had there.

Neither of them have terribly good onward connections, though. Both give
you the Bakerloo, and WJ gives you the NLL; QP will one day soon give you
some form of NLL as well. I would guess that most people commuting into
Euston take the tube from there into offices in the west end or the City,
or somewhere between. The NLL doesn't help with any of that (through
running to the ELLX may one day get you to Shoreditch High Street, which
is near the City), and the Bakerloo only helps you if you're right at the
Oxford Circus end of town (which many people are, of course - but still a
minority, i think).

This is one of the reasons that replacing the Euston DC line services with
the Bakerloo is such an utterly worthless idea.

Finsbury Park works because it has a railway line running directly to the
City, and two tube lines that run across a swathe of the central west end.
Ditto Stratford for useful routes to Docklands and the City.

If you wanted to have Finsbury Park for Euston, it would have to be
somewhere like Chalk Farm, with a connection to the Northern line. Not
that encouraging people to get on that line is a very sensible or
humanitarian thing to do, of course.

Clearly, the all-round solution is a new branch of the Bakerloo, coming
off at Regent's Park and heading for the City. Hey - it it went to
Farringdon, it could take over the old Widened Lines, and you get bonus
points for that!

tom

--
HI DERE WAHT IS IT MADE

The barriers at Euston platforms 8-11 cannot cope
 

On Tue, 26 Feb 2008, Mizter T wrote:

On 27 Feb, 01:05, Paul Weaver wrote:
On Feb 26, 10:43 pm, Tim Woodall wrote:

http://www.woodall.me.uk/img_00000010.jpeg

is a still from my bike camera (sorry the quality isn't very good but
gives some idea, especially if you already know the layout of these
platforms.)

What camera?

Mr Woodall appears to have a nifty video camera attached to his bike.
I don't know whether it is intended for the purpose of capturing
evidence of bad driving,

It seems to be for the purpose of taking over all the newsgroups i read!

/me just been shaken by an earthquake. In Bedfordshire. Shocking.

But in London I felt nothing! I was however in a car when it was
supposed to have happened, we were a bit perplexed when suddenly at a
quarter past one we started to hear reports of this tremor on the
radio.

I also didn't notice it, but i was quite drunk and eating scotch eggs at
the time.

tom

--
HI DERE WAHT IS IT MADE