Piccadilly line this morning
 

Anyone know what caused the westbound Piccadilly line to be so bad
this morning? It took me nearly an hour and a half from Turnpike Lane
to Northfields starting just before 10am.

I know part of the delay was caused by a passenger alarm that caused
the train to stop about half a car short of the normal stopping point,
and that took more than 5 minutes to be resolved, but even after that
it was very slow... and the driver kept making announcements about
disruption to the eastbound service, which confused me!

Piccadilly line this morning
 

"James Farrar" wrote in message
...
Anyone know what caused the westbound Piccadilly line to be so bad
this morning? It took me nearly an hour and a half from Turnpike Lane
to Northfields starting just before 10am.

I know part of the delay was caused by a passenger alarm that caused
the train to stop about half a car short of the normal stopping point,
and that took more than 5 minutes to be resolved, but even after that
it was very slow... and the driver kept making announcements about
disruption to the eastbound service, which confused me!

I believe a train caught fire at Wood Green eastbound about that time. This
in turn suspended the eastbound line.
Trains were terminating at Kings X and Hyde Pk Cnr so they were most
probably in the wrong place for the drivers relief.

Piccadilly line this morning
 

On Mar 28, 1:35 am, James Farrar wrote:
I know part of the delay was caused by a passenger alarm that caused
the train to stop about half a car short of the normal stopping point,

How did that happen? The alarms haven't been linked to the brakes
since the trains were refurbished AFAIK.

B2003

Piccadilly line this morning
 

On Mar 28, 3:23 pm, Boltar wrote:
On Mar 28, 1:35 am, James Farrar wrote:

I know part of the delay was caused by a passenger alarm that caused
the train to stop about half a car short of the normal stopping point,

How did that happen? The alarms haven't been linked to the brakes
since the trains were refurbished AFAIK.

B2003

One train at Wood Green had smoke pouring out from under the car. This
turned out to be papers that had probably burnt from being wrapped
round traction current shoes and arcing.

In the opposite direction there was a passenger alarm on a train.

Also, just before this, there was a signal track circuit failure at
Turnham Green Eastbound, it turned out to be a metal bar, so some
services were held up in congestion as they applied their rule and
others ran down the local line.

As usual, keeping as many trains in service as possible (though at
least some were cancelled) meant that there were then train operator
relief issues and late running of up to an hour.

Piccadilly line this morning
 

On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:23:32 -0700 (PDT), Boltar
wrote:

On Mar 28, 1:35 am, James Farrar wrote:
I know part of the delay was caused by a passenger alarm that caused
the train to stop about half a car short of the normal stopping point,

How did that happen? The alarms haven't been linked to the brakes
since the trains were refurbished AFAIK.

Maybe "caused" is a bit strong, but the train stopped about half a car
short of the normal stopping point and the passenger alarm had been
operated.

Piccadilly line this morning
 

On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 09:11:09 -0700 (PDT), chunky munky
wrote:

On Mar 28, 3:23 pm, Boltar wrote:
On Mar 28, 1:35 am, James Farrar wrote:

I know part of the delay was caused by a passenger alarm that caused
the train to stop about half a car short of the normal stopping point,

How did that happen? The alarms haven't been linked to the brakes
since the trains were refurbished AFAIK.

B2003

One train at Wood Green had smoke pouring out from under the car. This
turned out to be papers that had probably burnt from being wrapped
round traction current shoes and arcing.

In the opposite direction there was a passenger alarm on a train.

Also, just before this, there was a signal track circuit failure at
Turnham Green Eastbound, it turned out to be a metal bar, so some
services were held up in congestion as they applied their rule and
others ran down the local line.

As usual, keeping as many trains in service as possible (though at
least some were cancelled) meant that there were then train operator
relief issues and late running of up to an hour.

OK, thanks.

Piccadilly line this morning
 

In message
,
chunky munky writes
On Mar 28, 3:23 pm, Boltar wrote:

I know part of the delay was caused by a passenger alarm that caused
the train to stop about half a car short of the normal stopping point,

How did that happen? The alarms haven't been linked to the brakes
since the trains were refurbished AFAIK.

B2003

One train at Wood Green had smoke pouring out from under the car. This
turned out to be papers that had probably burnt from being wrapped
round traction current shoes and arcing.

In the opposite direction there was a passenger alarm on a train.

Also, just before this, there was a signal track circuit failure at
Turnham Green Eastbound, it turned out to be a metal bar, so some
services were held up in congestion as they applied their rule and
others ran down the local line.

As usual, keeping as many trains in service as possible (though at
least some were cancelled) meant that there were then train operator
relief issues and late running of up to an hour.

Sorry for tagging onto this but I don't see Mr Boltar's posts anymore
(as it helps my blood pressure!) but he's wrong.

A PEA activation applies emergency brakes. There is an override, but
the brakes do apply in the first instance.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

Piccadilly line this morning
 

On 28 Mar, 17:31, Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote:
Sorry for tagging onto this but I don't see Mr Boltar's posts anymore
(as it helps my blood pressure!) but he's wrong.

You wouldn't see many from me anyway since I don't have to use the
bloody tube anymore (or any of the poor excuse for public transport in
this city) to get to work which helps *my* blood pressure not to
mention preserving my sanity. Give me a car any day.


A PEA activation applies emergency brakes. There is an override, but
the brakes do apply in the first instance.

I was sure they'd removed that "feature". Oh well. Perhaps its only on
certain stock.

B2003

Piccadilly line this morning
 

"Steve Fitzgerald" ] wrote in message
...

Sorry for tagging onto this but I don't see Mr Boltar's posts anymore (as
it helps my blood pressure!) but he's wrong.

A PEA activation applies emergency brakes. There is an override, but the
brakes do apply in the first instance.

Does it apply the emergency brakes only when a train is still in the station
or between stations as well? I'm surprised to hear that a PEA activation can
cause a train to go into emergency as I thought TfL had elminiated this
because it is much more difficult to actually get to or from the train if
between stations.

I recall a few years ago on the Northern Line that a PEA was activated. The
driver acknowledged that the activation and said that it would be
investigated at the next station, and the emergency brakes did not apply.
IIRC, the driver also did not open the doors until he had walked down and
found out what happened.

BTW, can drivers on 92 and 96 stock use their CCTV to see what is happening
inside the coaches? Will a PEA activate this feature?

Piccadilly line this morning
 

"Boltar" wrote in message
...

I was sure they'd removed that "feature". Oh well. Perhaps its only on
certain stock.

I don't think that it is on tube lines, so perhaps on the sub-surface ones?

Piccadilly line this morning
 

In message ,
writes

Sorry for tagging onto this but I don't see Mr Boltar's posts anymore (as
it helps my blood pressure!) but he's wrong.

A PEA activation applies emergency brakes. There is an override, but the
brakes do apply in the first instance.

Does it apply the emergency brakes only when a train is still in the station
or between stations as well? I'm surprised to hear that a PEA activation can
cause a train to go into emergency as I thought TfL had elminiated this
because it is much more difficult to actually get to or from the train if
between stations.

I can only speak for 73 stock as that's what I drive, but yes at all
times. A PEA activation breaks the Round The Train circuit thus causing
a full emergency brake activation. There is a large button on the floor
under the driver's feet that allows this circuit to be temporarily
bypassed to allow a train to be taken into a station for the matter to
be dealt with prior to resetting, but the basic principle is that the
train stops on activation of the PEA.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

Piccadilly line this morning
 

On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 23:55:30 GMT, wrote this
gibberish:

"Steve Fitzgerald" ] wrote in message
...

Sorry for tagging onto this but I don't see Mr Boltar's posts anymore (as
it helps my blood pressure!) but he's wrong.

A PEA activation applies emergency brakes. There is an override, but the
brakes do apply in the first instance.

Does it apply the emergency brakes only when a train is still in the station
or between stations as well? I'm surprised to hear that a PEA activation can
cause a train to go into emergency as I thought TfL had elminiated this
because it is much more difficult to actually get to or from the train if
between stations.

I've seen notices that imply this, perhaps the train knows when it's
physically in a station and is automatic until it leaves.

--
Mark.
www.MarkVarleyPhoto.co.uk
www.TwistedPhotography.co.uk
www.TwistedArts.co.uk
www.BeautifulBondage.net

Piccadilly line this morning
 

"MarkVarley - MVP" wrote in message
...

I've seen notices that imply this, perhaps the train knows when it's
physically in a station and is automatic until it leaves.


Perhaps that is the case as some models of trains have a pretty fast pick up
and perhaps the driver won't be able to react quickly enough to an alarm if
part of the train is still in the station.

I'm sure that it's quite easy for a train to tell if it is still in the
platform.

Piccadilly line this morning
 

On Mar 29, 10:19 am, wrote:
"MarkVarley - MVP" wrote in messagenews:1i3su3l4mnujt4fomcdclu3mvanq5rpum4@4ax .com...

I've seen notices that imply this, perhaps the train knows when it's
physically in a station and is automatic until it leaves.

Perhaps that is the case as some models of trains have a pretty fast pick up
and perhaps the driver won't be able to react quickly enough to an alarm if
part of the train is still in the station.

I'm sure that it's quite easy for a train to tell if it is still in the
platform.

Blimey, how high tech do you think the tube is! :-)

There are count up markers showing how far the train is out when it is
leaving a station. If a Passenger Emergency Alarm is activated whilst
within the last one then the train must stop and the PEA should be
investigated.
If activated between stations outside of the count up markers, then it
should continue to the next station, where it will be investigated.
On some line; Metropolitan and Circle and District are three, the
operation of the PEA will apply the brakes and operate audible and
visual warnings in the cab. Once they have been released, a Brake
Overide Device, a foot plunger can be operated so that the train can
continue to the next station.
On some line, I believe the Jubilee to be one, the train brake will
not apply if the alarm is acknowledged, and then some lines have the
benefit of knowing what car the alarm has been operated in, so station
staff can get to the operated alarm quicker, plus some also have a
talkback so the train operator can talk with the person who has
operated, to gleam further information.

Piccadilly line this morning
 

"chunky munky" wrote in message
...
On Mar 29, 10:19 am, wrote:

I'm sure that it's quite easy for a train to tell if it is still in the
platform.

Blimey, how high tech do you think the tube is! :-)

Not sure, really, but I do think that it's not doing too badly if doors
won't open if the train is not properly berthed at the platform.

There are count up markers showing how far the train is out when it is
leaving a station. If a Passenger Emergency Alarm is activated whilst
within the last one then the train must stop and the PEA should be
investigated.

I know. I was just wondering, based on previous posts, if the train might
automatically brake if part of it is in the station when a PEA is activated
as it might take a driver a few seconds to realise what the alarm is and to
take appropriate reaction.

If activated between stations outside of the count up markers, then it
should continue to the next station, where it will be investigated.

On some line; Metropolitan and Circle and District are three, the
operation of the PEA will apply the brakes and operate audible and
visual warnings in the cab.

Didn't know that. I had previously thought that a PEA would never activate
emergency brakes. And I guess I am surprised that LU keep that feature. Is
it not easy to deactivate?

On some line, I believe the Jubilee to be one, the train brake will
not apply if the alarm is acknowledged, and then some lines have the
benefit of knowing what car the alarm has been operated in, so station
staff can get to the operated alarm quicker, plus some also have a
talkback so the train operator can talk with the person who has
operated, to gleam further information.

The guard light on Central line stock apparently flashes when the PEA is
activated, I think. Are those 92 or 93 rolling stock? I can't remember.

Piccadilly line this morning
 

On Sat, 29 Mar 2008, chunky munky wrote:

On Mar 29, 10:19 am, wrote:
"MarkVarley - MVP" wrote in messagenews:1i3su3l4mnujt4fomcdclu3mvanq5rpum4@4ax .com...

I've seen notices that imply this, perhaps the train knows when it's
physically in a station and is automatic until it leaves.

Perhaps that is the case as some models of trains have a pretty fast pick up
and perhaps the driver won't be able to react quickly enough to an alarm if
part of the train is still in the station.

I'm sure that it's quite easy for a train to tell if it is still in the
platform.

Blimey, how high tech do you think the tube is! :-)

The Victoria line can do it, can't it? I'm sure if read that it will do
exactly that stop-only-if-in-a-station behaviour. I assume other ATO lines
will do it, but i won't be surprised to hear that the manual lines don't.

tom

--
It's not even just bad. It's Waterworld bad, it's Iraq-occupation bad,
it's '62 Mets bad. -- robotslave

Piccadilly line this morning
 

On 29 Mar, 17:59, wrote:
Blimey, how high tech do you think the tube is! :-)

Not sure, really, but I do think that it's not doing too badly if doors
won't open if the train is not properly berthed at the platform.

They do indeed detect whether the train is in the right place to open
the doors, but not whether any part of the train is still in the
platform, which is what the countdown markers are for.

"chunky munky" wrote in message
On some line, I believe the Jubilee to be one, the train brake will
not apply if the alarm is acknowledged, and then some lines have the
benefit of knowing what car the alarm has been operated in, so station
staff can get to the operated alarm quicker, plus some also have a
talkback so the train operator can talk with the person who has
operated, to gleam further information.

I think it's trains with talkback that don't have automatic brake
operation.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London