Not a part of London I frequent, but yesterday after training down
from Cambridge in the morning, going to an appointment in Hampstead,
followed by meeting friends in Lewisham (Tube + DLR), I needed to head
to a meeting near Enfield Lock station.

I realised my Oyster PAYG probably wouldn't be valid - no problem,
thinks I; I'll just get a paper ticket for the extra few stops.

Now if I'd had my wits about me in the morning, instead of buying my
usual CDR to London Terminals (11.90 with network railcard), I'd have
bought a one day travelcard and not bothered using my Oyster.

As it was, I found myself arriving at Stratford, already nicely Oyster
capped for the day, on a Jubilee Line train, and that's where the fun
starts.

I got off the train, touched out, and wandered round the foyer area
looking for a ticket machine. I couldn't find one, so went to look for
details of when my train was. The information provided there needs a
bit of detective work to put together - one set of boards provides the
times, but not the ultimate destination, so you can't just find your
train from the departure screens if, like me, you have no idea where
it's terminating. A second poster, elsewhere in the station, provides
a list of platform numbers for various destinations.

"Perhaps there will be a ticket machine on the platform?", I think,
and so head to Platform 12 for my train (which is waiting idly to
depart in 10 minutes time). No such luck, so I wander back to the
concourse, find a member of staff, and ask where the ticket machines
are. She points to one about 10 metres from me, in a part of the
station I hadn't even considered looking in, *because it's the other
side of a gateline*. "Just touch out and use that one", she says.

I tell her I've already touched out, and she asks where I came from,
and I tell her. She then says I have to touch out again, "to end my
journey", and buy a ticket.

I'm a bit incredulous about this, as I've never yet encountered the
situation where I have to go through two sets of gatelines to get out,
but I do so, and then buy my paper ticket (6 quid - I'm going entirely
within the travelcard zones, I'm already capped for the day - not
impressed), and use it to get back in through the barriers I just came
through. I'm now hoping I won't be charged for an unresolved journey.

What an utterly weird setup. Is there anywhere else on the network
where you have to go through two sets of gatelines to get out?

On 2 Apr, 07:27, Sarah Brown
wrote:

Not a part of London I frequent, but yesterday after training down
from Cambridge in the morning, going to an appointment in Hampstead,
followed by meeting friends in Lewisham (Tube + DLR), I needed to head
to a meeting near Enfield Lock station.

I realised my Oyster PAYG probably wouldn't be valid - no problem,
thinks I; I'll just get a paper ticket for the extra few stops.

Now if I'd had my wits about me in the morning, instead of buying my
usual CDR to London Terminals (11.90 with network railcard), I'd have
bought a one day travelcard and not bothered using my Oyster.

That would have been the best and most likely the cheapest solution.


As it was, I found myself arriving at Stratford, already nicely Oyster
capped for the day, on a Jubilee Line train, and that's where the fun
starts.

I got off the train, touched out, and wandered round the foyer area
looking for a ticket machine. I couldn't find one, so went to look for
details of when my train was. The information provided there needs a
bit of detective work to put together - one set of boards provides the
times, but not the ultimate destination, so you can't just find your
train from the departure screens if, like me, you have no idea where
it's terminating. A second poster, elsewhere in the station, provides
a list of platform numbers for various destinations.

I agree, the information as currently provided is somewhat shabby at
Sttratford.


"Perhaps there will be a ticket machine on the platform?", I think,
and so head to Platform 12 for my train (which is waiting idly to
depart in 10 minutes time). No such luck, so I wander back to the
concourse, find a member of staff, and ask where the ticket machines
are. She points to one about 10 metres from me, in a part of the
station I hadn't even considered looking in, *because it's the other
side of a gateline*. "Just touch out and use that one", she says.

There is actually a ticket machine within the fare paid area to the
right of the Jubilee line 'internal gateline' (as you are leaving the
Jubilee platforms), next to the current North London Line (aka London
Overground) Richmond-bound platform.


I tell her I've already touched out, and she asks where I came from,
and I tell her. She then says I have to touch out again, "to end my
journey", and buy a ticket.

The first gateline would have already 'ended your journey' - however
going through the second gateline should not have been a problem at
all. Stratford is unique in having this double-gateline arrangement
for Jubilee passengers (with the second 'internal gateline'), but it
has been set up correctly and so should work fine.


I'm a bit incredulous about this, as I've never yet encountered the
situation where I have to go through two sets of gatelines to get out,
but I do so, and then buy my paper ticket (6 quid - I'm going entirely
within the travelcard zones, I'm already capped for the day - not
impressed), and use it to get back in through the barriers I just came
through. I'm now hoping I won't be charged for an unresolved journey.


You certainly shouldn't get charged for an unresolved journey at all.

Incidentally you bought a zones 1-6 Day Travelcard just for a rail
journey to Enfield Lock (and back?) - no need! You could have just
bought a single or return rail ticket, or indeed a zones 2-6 Day
Travelcard (at £4.80) as appropriate.



What an utterly weird setup. Is there anywhere else on the network
where you have to go through two sets of gatelines to get out?


No. But that's what you have to do at Stratford.

In article ,
Mizter T wrote:

The first gateline would have already 'ended your journey' - however
going through the second gateline should not have been a problem at
all. Stratford is unique in having this double-gateline arrangement

I guess that's why I never encountered it before. Wonder how often
they get bemused passengers standing there in puzzlement?

You certainly shouldn't get charged for an unresolved journey at all.

Incidentally you bought a zones 1-6 Day Travelcard just for a rail
journey to Enfield Lock (and back?) - no need! You could have just
bought a single or return rail ticket, or indeed a zones 2-6 Day
Travelcard (at £4.80) as appropriate.

No, I bought a CDR - that was 6 quid (or 10 with a network railcard)!

In article ,
(Sarah Brown) wrote:

No, I bought a CDR - that was 6 quid (or 10 with a network
railcard)!

That's the £10 minimum with the NC on weekdays now.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 2 Apr, 11:28, Sarah Brown
wrote:

In article ,
Mizter T wrote:

The first gateline would have already 'ended your journey' - however
going through the second gateline should not have been a problem at
all. Stratford is unique in having this double-gateline arrangement

I guess that's why I never encountered it before. Wonder how often
they get bemused passengers standing there in puzzlement?


Fairly often I reckon!


You certainly shouldn't get charged for an unresolved journey at all.

Incidentally you bought a zones 1-6 Day Travelcard just for a rail
journey to Enfield Lock (and back?) - no need! You could have just
bought a single or return rail ticket, or indeed a zones 2-6 Day
Travelcard (at £4.80) as appropriate.

No, I bought a CDR - that was 6 quid (or 10 with a network railcard)!


I know what went wrong here. You bought a Stratford to Enfield Lock
"via London" CDR - i.e. for a journey that would have routed you via
Liverpool Street. What you really wanted was a Stratford to Enfield
Lock "not London" ticket for a direct journey, which costs the
slightly more reasonable sum of £4.10.

I'm guessing you purchased from a ticket machine, based on your
comments about the Network Railcard price of £10, which is something
would only ever be presented as an option to a passenger by a machine
rather than a human (i.e. a ticket clerk, though perhaps some are on
the edge of being robots)!

I've no idea if the ticket machines at Stratford can be coaxed into
selling a Stratford to Enfield Lock "not London" ticket, though it's
would appear to be a shame that the machine seemingly didn't
explicitly flag up the two options ("via London" and "not London"), or
if it did, it didn't do so in an obvious enough manner.

That said if it was an LU ticket machine then I can quite imagine it
not being programmed to present or sell the two different fares
whatsoever (though the whole Network Railcard £10 fare business does
make it sound like one of NXEA's Scheidt & Bachmann machines, because
that's what they do).

As Mr Thant points out elsewhere, as well as the LU ticket office
there is also actually a "National Express East Anglia" (NXEA i.e.
TOC) ticket office at Stratford which should certainly have been able
to sort you out with the right ticket (though to the confusion of many
a tourist it won't sell NX coach tickets to Stratford!). The issue is
finding it - one must actually leave the main station building and
then turn left and left again, and it's in a quasi-shed tagged on to
the side of the main building.

The LU ticket office may well have been able to sell you the right
ticket too, though the LU windows at Stratford are always very busy
and they aren't ever going to be as au fait with mainland rail
ticketing as the NXEA ticket office next door. Indeed I'd recommend
most people to use the NXEA office as there's likely to be less of a
queue, they can now do Oyster top-ups, I guess they can sell LU single
tickets and they can certainly sell Day Travelcards. The only problem
might be getting stuck behind someone trying to buy tickets for some
incredibly complex pan-Britain rail journey!

In article ,
Mizter T wrote:

No, I bought a CDR - that was 6 quid (or 10 with a network railcard)!


I know what went wrong here. You bought a Stratford to Enfield Lock
"via London" CDR - i.e. for a journey that would have routed you via
Liverpool Street. What you really wanted was a Stratford to Enfield
Lock "not London" ticket for a direct journey, which costs the
slightly more reasonable sum of £4.10.

I'm guessing you purchased from a ticket machine, based on your
comments about the Network Railcard price of £10, which is something
would only ever be presented as an option to a passenger by a machine
rather than a human (i.e. a ticket clerk, though perhaps some are on
the edge of being robots)!

Yes.

One thing I'm wondering with hindsight is whether the return portion
of my CDR from Cambridge to London Terminals would have actually been
valid for a trip from Stratford to Enfield Lock? In the event, I ended
up going straight back home from Enfield Lock, changing at Cheshunt,
rather than returning to Stratford.

On 3 Apr, 11:30, Sarah Brown
wrote:

In article ,
Mizter T wrote:

No, I bought a CDR - that was 6 quid (or 10 with a network railcard)!

I know what went wrong here. You bought a Stratford to Enfield Lock
"via London" CDR - i.e. for a journey that would have routed you via
Liverpool Street. What you really wanted was a Stratford to Enfield
Lock "not London" ticket for a direct journey, which costs the
slightly more reasonable sum of £4.10.

I'm guessing you purchased from a ticket machine, based on your
comments about the Network Railcard price of £10, which is something
would only ever be presented as an option to a passenger by a machine
rather than a human (i.e. a ticket clerk, though perhaps some are on
the edge of being robots)!

Yes.

One thing I'm wondering with hindsight is whether the return portion
of my CDR from Cambridge to London Terminals would have actually been
valid for a trip from Stratford to Enfield Lock? In the event, I ended
up going straight back home from Enfield Lock, changing at Cheshunt,
rather than returning to Stratford.

I did think of that, it might have been but I'm just not sure about it.

Sarah Brown wrote:
One thing I'm wondering with hindsight is whether the return portion
of my CDR from Cambridge to London Terminals would have actually been
valid for a trip from Stratford to Enfield Lock? In the event, I ended
up going straight back home from Enfield Lock, changing at Cheshunt,
rather than returning to Stratford.

I don't think so. The Routeing Guide only gives this one map:
http://www.atoc.org/rsp/_downloads/R...aps/map_wa.htm

Since Stratford isn't a London Terminal, you can't use the branch on
the right on your ticket. But you can use your ticket on that line
north of Tottenham Hale, so you only needed to buy a Stratford-
Tottenham Hale ticket.

Also, as I mentioned, PAYG would also cover Stratford-Tottenham Hale,
though you'd have to get off your train to touch out, then re-enter
with your train ticket and get on the next one.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

On 2 Apr, 07:27, Sarah Brown
wrote:
I realised my Oyster PAYG probably wouldn't be valid - no problem,
thinks I; I'll just get a paper ticket for the extra few stops.

Just FYI Oyster is now valid as far as Tottenham Hale on that route,
though you'd have to get off the train and touch out to switch
tickets.

She points to one about 10 metres from me, in a part of the
station I hadn't even considered looking in, *because it's the other
side of a gateline*. "Just touch out and use that one", she says.

That's the main entrance to the station. The bit you call the "foyer"
is really just an interchange hall in the current setup, so you
weren't outside yet.

The lack of information is due to Stratford being a tube station.
There is a National Rail ticket office tacked on the side (outdoors,
as I recall) to the right as you enter the station. They might have
sold you a better ticket.

What an utterly weird setup. Is there anywhere else on the network
where you have to go through two sets of gatelines to get out?

If you get off the H&C at Paddington you'll reach one gateline to get
out onto the footbridge. If you continue along the footbridge and go
along platforms 2/3 or 4/5 to reach the concourse, you'll find
yourself inside another gateline, probably with a ticket that won't
activate them.

(this is entirely optional as neither set of gates encloses anything)

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

In article ,
Mr Thant wrote:

That's the main entrance to the station. The bit you call the "foyer"
is really just an interchange hall in the current setup, so you
weren't outside yet.

How come you need to go through a gateline to get into it? Wouldn't
the style of optional readers they have at, e.g. Farringdon for
interchanging between tube and national rail work there for some
reason?