Free Lunch wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:58:52 -0500, Stephen Sprunk
wrote in misc.transport.urban-transit:

Charles Ellson wrote:
Aren't US banknotes also all the same size thus making it easier to
accidentally sandwich a high value note in amongst low value notes ?
They're all the same size, yes. Folks do occasionally make mistakes,
but that's not a major concern (other than for the blind) in bill design
compared to anti-counterfeiting features.

But, of course, the Fed was told by the courts that their current
methods are a violation of the law because they don't take the blind
into account.

That decision is barely a month old, so it hardly had any effect on the
last 80 years of bill design. It's not clear what, if anything, will be
done in response. It'll probably still be tied up for a few more years
on appeal to the Supreme Court, and I bet Congress will do something
about it (i.e. exemption from ADA) by then on request from the Fed and
the Treasury.

Still, I'm sure something will be done to correct the problem
eventually. It _is_ a minor annoyance to the rest of us, but the costs
of changing our currency, particularly in a short time period, are
tremendous.

S

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 19:43:17 +0100, hounslow3 wrote:



Will Britain or the Eurozone ever get polymer notes, I wonder?

When the Australian Mint patent expires probably. I've heard a story
that the Eurozone investigated using Australian style plastic notes, but
the Australian Mint holds the process very close and wouldn't release the
process for use in Europe. If the Eurozone wanted plastic notes, they
would have to be printed in Australia.

So the only countries that currently have plastic notes all get the
Australian mint to print them for them, so take up of these types of
notes has been limited to smaller Pacific rim counties that don't have
their own currency printing facilities or don't mind 'out sourcing' it to
Australia.

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:01:24 -0500, Stephen Sprunk
wrote:

Free Lunch wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:58:52 -0500, Stephen Sprunk
wrote in misc.transport.urban-transit:

Charles Ellson wrote:
Aren't US banknotes also all the same size thus making it easier to
accidentally sandwich a high value note in amongst low value notes ?
They're all the same size, yes. Folks do occasionally make mistakes,
but that's not a major concern (other than for the blind) in bill design
compared to anti-counterfeiting features.

But, of course, the Fed was told by the courts that their current
methods are a violation of the law because they don't take the blind
into account.

That decision is barely a month old, so it hardly had any effect on the
last 80 years of bill design. It's not clear what, if anything, will be
done in response. It'll probably still be tied up for a few more years
on appeal to the Supreme Court, and I bet Congress will do something
about it (i.e. exemption from ADA) by then on request from the Fed and
the Treasury.

Still, I'm sure something will be done to correct the problem
eventually. It _is_ a minor annoyance to the rest of us, but the costs
of changing our currency, particularly in a short time period, are
tremendous.

A start could be made by use of distinctive colours and
designs/symbols on a sufficiently large section of each note (like
Bank of England notes) but without departing greatly from the basic
green note. Changing sizes (if actually deemed necessary) could be
left until later with the process spread over a number of years.

Charles Ellson wrote:
A start could be made by use of distinctive colours and
designs/symbols on a sufficiently large section of each note (like
Bank of England notes) but without departing greatly from the basic
green note. Changing sizes (if actually deemed necessary) could be
left until later with the process spread over a number of years.

The newest notes _do_ have distinctive coloring; for older notes a
cursory glance (by someone with normal vision) will distinguish between
them due to the different portraits, even the monochromatic ones. The
"large portrait" redesign in the 1990s solved most of the problems for
merely "vision impaired" folks, and color took care of the rest.

The issue at hand, though, is that neither of those things help the
blind figure out what they're holding; you need different sizes,
braille, or something similar that can be distinguished solely by touch,
and as of today US notes have nothing helpful in that area -- they all
feel exactly the same.

I recall some notes I had a while back when traveling (FRF? NLG? AUD?
NZD?) had clear sections that one could feel and, if given a few
seconds, determine the shape and thus what denomination the note was.
That's an interesting possibility as an alternative to different sizes
or braille. However, I don't know if that would be compatible with the
US's use of cloth notes...

S

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 19:34:08 -0500, Stephen Sprunk
wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:
A start could be made by use of distinctive colours and
designs/symbols on a sufficiently large section of each note (like
Bank of England notes) but without departing greatly from the basic
green note. Changing sizes (if actually deemed necessary) could be
left until later with the process spread over a number of years.

The newest notes _do_ have distinctive coloring; for older notes a
cursory glance (by someone with normal vision) will distinguish between
them due to the different portraits, even the monochromatic ones. The
"large portrait" redesign in the 1990s solved most of the problems for
merely "vision impaired" folks, and color took care of the rest.

Ah! I don't get many in my change "over here" so I missed that
happening. ;-)

The issue at hand, though, is that neither of those things help the
blind figure out what they're holding; you need different sizes,
braille, or something similar that can be distinguished solely by touch,
and as of today US notes have nothing helpful in that area -- they all
feel exactly the same.

I recall some notes I had a while back when traveling (FRF? NLG? AUD?
NZD?) had clear sections that one could feel and, if given a few
seconds, determine the shape and thus what denomination the note was.
That's an interesting possibility as an alternative to different sizes
or braille. However, I don't know if that would be compatible with the
US's use of cloth notes...

BoE notes have holograms integrated into the (made from rag IIRC)
paper so mixing materials doesn't seem to be a problem. With Braille I
suspect the difficulty lies with the inconstant thickness resulting or
the eventual flattening of the "dots". Punching holes in the notes is
probably not an option so relying on textural differences seems to be
the remaining option if the size and/or colour can't be changed.
Possibly a variation on the BoE holograms could provide textural
"dots" but how many different denominations of dollar note would need
to be identified ?

Matthew Geier wrote:
So the only countries that currently have plastic notes all get the
Australian mint to print them for them, so take up of these types of
notes has been limited to smaller Pacific rim counties that don't have
their own currency printing facilities or don't mind 'out sourcing' it to
Australia.

Doesn't the Isle of Man have plastic notes? Are theirs Australian as well?

Phil

"Charles Ellson" wrote

BoE notes have holograms integrated into the (made from rag IIRC)
paper so mixing materials doesn't seem to be a problem. With Braille I
suspect the difficulty lies with the inconstant thickness resulting or
the eventual flattening of the "dots". Punching holes in the notes is
probably not an option so relying on textural differences seems to be
the remaining option if the size and/or colour can't be changed.
Possibly a variation on the BoE holograms could provide textural
"dots" but how many different denominations of dollar note would need
to be identified ?

I'm not sure what features blind people use to distinguish BoE notes, but
apart from different size for different denominations, and the hologram,
they use raised printing. In the past the size of BoE notes have changed
(the white fivers were ginormous, and in the 1960s we got new small pound
notes - didn't we accuse Harold Wilson of shrinking the pound?), though I
suspect that changing the size of notes now would cause difficulties for
cash machines, vending machines that accept notes, etc.

Peter

On 24 Jun, 20:05, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
In the UK it is also conventional that you notify your bank if you
intend on travelling abroad.

It is? I've never done or heard of this, and nor have any of the other
people I've just asked about it...

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

John B gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

In the UK it is also conventional that you notify your bank if you
intend on travelling abroad.

It is? I've never done or heard of this, and nor have any of the other
people I've just asked about it...

I've never done or had a problem as a result of not doing so - but SWMBO
seems to think that they need to know. God knows why. Mind you, she's
with Barclays, so I really wouldn't put anything past them.

Adrian wrote:
John B gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

In the UK it is also conventional that you notify your bank if you
intend on travelling abroad.

It is? I've never done or heard of this, and nor have any of the
other people I've just asked about it...

I've never done or had a problem as a result of not doing so - but
SWMBO seems to think that they need to know. God knows why. Mind you,
she's with Barclays, so I really wouldn't put anything past them.

In theory, you are more likely to have problems with card purchases abroad
if you don't notify the card issuer, as an unexpected batch of transactions
in a foreign country might be regarded as suspicious (use of cloned card,
etc.). In practice I've never had a problem. Barclaycard do ask customers
to notify them when going abroad, and they'll tell you what the current Visa
exchange rate is. HSBC seem indifferent, and refuse to tell you what the
Mastercard exchange rate is.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)