[1] I have a very vague recollection of having seen bus stencils
somewhere in the UK. Bike stencils are provided in places though,
unlike some other places, there is no stencil on the red lens.

Birmingham, at the junction of Longmore Street and Belgrave Middleway.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...2,0.01001&z=17

Buses and Bikes can go straight on from Longmore Street into Horton
Square, cars can only go left. There's both a bus stencil and a bike
stencil, and bizarrely they have separate lanes.

The layout is hideous, as the dedicated bike lane to cross the
Middleway heading north is in the middle of the road and the bike lane
runs along a widened pavement to the west (where you'd expect it) and
then crosses into the middle of Longmore Street unprotected (where you
sort of expect it). But coming from Horton Square you end up again in
in the centre of the road and are expected to move right, into the bi-
directional bike lane, unprotected. So you have massive traffic light
protection for a move across Belgrave Middleway, but fifteen yards the
other side you have to make a weird, unprotected move which drivers
won't be expecting: from the perspective of a driver heading north,
they'll confront oncoming bikes heading south in the middle of the
road crossing to the western side of the road.

This is part of National Cycle Route 5, and is the recommended route
to cycle from the South West of the city into Birmingham (along Gooch
Street) and is also a useful route towards the Grand Union at Camp
Hill locks (cycling on belgrave Middleway is hard work when you can
cut diagonally across). I just get in the bus lane and behave like a
bus...

ian

On Tue, 9 Sep 2008, wrote:

[1] I have a very vague recollection of having seen bus stencils
somewhere in the UK. Bike stencils are provided in places though,
unlike some other places, there is no stencil on the red lens.

Birmingham, at the junction of Longmore Street and Belgrave Middleway.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...2,0.01001&z=17

Buses and Bikes can go straight on from Longmore Street into Horton
Square, cars can only go left. There's both a bus stencil and a bike
stencil, and bizarrely they have separate lanes.

The layout is hideous, as the dedicated bike lane to cross the Middleway
heading north is in the middle of the road and the bike lane runs along
a widened pavement to the west (where you'd expect it) and then crosses
into the middle of Longmore Street unprotected (where you sort of expect
it). But coming from Horton Square you end up again in in the centre of
the road and are expected to move right, into the bi- directional bike
lane, unprotected. So you have massive traffic light protection for a
move across Belgrave Middleway, but fifteen yards the other side you
have to make a weird, unprotected move which drivers won't be expecting:
from the perspective of a driver heading north, they'll confront
oncoming bikes heading south in the middle of the road crossing to the
western side of the road.

Yes, that's a classic bit of cycle lane dickery. That point should at the
very least be protected by an island rather than some crosshatching, and
should really have some lights on it too.

I note that there's a primary school to the east, with access from that
road. Would this not be an ideal place for a pedestrian crossing, with
which the cycle lane crossover could be integrated?

Really, though, the solution is just not to build cycle lanes. Copious
research shows that in situations like this - indeed, in almost all urban
situations - they cause more accidents than they prevent.

Anyway, some more dickery in return - i've been meaning to post this photo
for ages, and you've prompted me to do so:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/twic/2844493252/

It's about he

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=51.52544%2C-0.126214

This is part of National Cycle Route 5, and is the recommended route to
cycle from the South West of the city into Birmingham (along Gooch
Street) and is also a useful route towards the Grand Union at Camp Hill
locks (cycling on belgrave Middleway is hard work when you can cut
diagonally across). I just get in the bus lane and behave like a bus...

This is also my strategy. I'm getting very good at brrrmming noises.

tom

--
Baby got a masterplan. A foolproof masterplan.

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Tom
Anderson gently breathed:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/twic/2844493252/

You should send that to the Warrington Cycle Campaign for their
"Facility Of The Month" page - top work!

--
- DJ Pyromancer, Black Sheep, Leeds. http://www.sheepish.net
- http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk http://www.revival.stormshadow.com

In article ,
(Pyromancer) wrote:

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Tom
Anderson gently breathed:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/twic/2844493252/

You should send that to the Warrington Cycle Campaign for their
"Facility Of The Month" page - top work!

I use the segregated cycle lane sections to the west of that location
between the Bedford Way/Tavistock Sq junction and Marchmont St on my way
from Westminster to King's Cross station.

I don't use the section between Marchmont St and Judd St illustrated and
have never seen this nonsense. I can't for the life of me think why that
crossover isn't arranged at the lights on the Judd St junction but then
they wouldn't have the anti-cyclist lights arrangement at the Marchmont
St junction if they were that sensible.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

In article ,
(Pyromancer) wrote:

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Tom
Anderson gently breathed:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/twic/2844493252/

You should send that to the Warrington Cycle Campaign for their
"Facility Of The Month" page - top work!

I use the segregated cycle lane sections to the west of that location
between the Bedford Way/Tavistock Sq junction and Marchmont St on my way
from Westminster to King's Cross station.

I don't use the section between Marchmont St and Judd St illustrated and
have never seen this nonsense.

I turn off at Marchmont Street too, so i rarely have to negotiate the
bloody thing either. The day i took that, i was riding from the west end
to the City, and that seemed like a good route.

I can't for the life of me think why that crossover isn't arranged at
the lights on the Judd St junction

Quite!

but then they wouldn't have the anti-cyclist lights arrangement at the
Marchmont St junction if they were that sensible.

Oh christ! That junction! AAAAAAAAAAARRRRGGGHHH!! It makes me INSANE WITH
RAGE whenever i see it, or even think about it. It's an affront to common
sense and human dignity. One day, i'm going to burn it down.

tom

--
And dear lord, its like peaches in a lacy napkin. -- James Dearden

In article ,
(Tom Anderson) wrote:

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

In article ,
(Pyromancer) wrote:

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Tom
Anderson gently breathed:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/twic/2844493252/

You should send that to the Warrington Cycle Campaign for their
"Facility Of The Month" page - top work!

I use the segregated cycle lane sections to the west of that location
between the Bedford Way/Tavistock Sq junction and Marchmont St on my
way from Westminster to King's Cross station.

I don't use the section between Marchmont St and Judd St
illustrated and have never seen this nonsense.

I turn off at Marchmont Street too, so i rarely have to negotiate
the bloody thing either. The day i took that, i was riding from the
west end to the City, and that seemed like a good route.

I can't for the life of me think why that crossover isn't
arranged at the lights on the Judd St junction

Quite!

but then they wouldn't have the anti-cyclist lights arrangement
at the Marchmont St junction if they were that sensible.

Oh christ! That junction! AAAAAAAAAAARRRRGGGHHH!! It makes me
INSANE WITH RAGE whenever i see it, or even think about it. It's an
affront to common sense and human dignity. One day, i'm going to
burn it down.

Indeed so. I've got an email from a Camden cycling officer I keep meaning
to follow up to have a site meeting about those signals (and a more minor
irritation at Tavistock Square). I have a Camden cycling councillor
contact to whom I've talked about it too but it's one of things for which
I need to get a round tuit.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

In article ,
(Tom Anderson) wrote:

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

but then they wouldn't have the anti-cyclist lights arrangement at the
Marchmont St junction if they were that sensible.

Oh christ! That junction! AAAAAAAAAAARRRRGGGHHH!! It makes me INSANE
WITH RAGE whenever i see it, or even think about it. It's an affront to
common sense and human dignity. One day, i'm going to burn it down.

Indeed so. I've got an email from a Camden cycling officer I keep
meaning to follow up to have a site meeting about those signals (and a
more minor irritation at Tavistock Square). I have a Camden cycling
councillor contact to whom I've talked about it too but it's one of
things for which I need to get a round tuit.

Have you spoken to anyone from the Camden Cycling Campaign? The whole
Seven Stations route is their baby, and they're heavily involved with the
design and modification of the route along Tavistock Place. You can find
all sorts of fragments of information with some searches on their site:

http://www.camdencyclists.org.uk/

Although it seems to be silent on the matter of those lights.

tom

--
It involves police, bailiffs, vampires and a portal to hell under a
tower block in Hackney.

On Sep 10, 11:18*am, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
In article ,

(Pyromancer) wrote:
Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Tom
Anderson gently breathed:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/twic/2844493252/

You should send that to the Warrington Cycle Campaign for their
"Facility Of The Month" page - top work!

I use the segregated cycle lane sections to the west of that location
between the Bedford Way/Tavistock Sq junction and Marchmont St on my way
from Westminster to King's Cross station.

I don't use the section between Marchmont St and Judd St illustrated and
have never seen this nonsense. I can't for the life of me think why that
crossover isn't arranged at the lights on the Judd St junction

Well it is, as a result of the previous one, in that anyone continuing
east along Tavistock Place has to make the reverse move after a few
yards, across the path of cyclists heading west.

The whole assumption seems to be that all cyclists heading east will
turn south down Hunter Street, but I can't see why they should.

As for why the path has to stay on the north, I'm guessing that it
must be something to do with how one can get on to it at the Tottenham
Court Road end, where it is against the one-way flow of Torrington
Place. I can't remember how one gets to it from Tottenham Court Road,
unless there's a contraflow bike lane there.

but then
they wouldn't have the anti-cyclist lights arrangement at the Marchmont
St junction if they were that sensible.

In article
,
(MIG) wrote:

On Sep 10, 11:18*am, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
In article ,

(Pyromancer) wrote:
Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Tom
Anderson gently breathed:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/twic/2844493252/

You should send that to the Warrington Cycle Campaign for their
"Facility Of The Month" page - top work!

I use the segregated cycle lane sections to the west of that location
between the Bedford Way/Tavistock Sq junction and Marchmont St on my
way from Westminster to King's Cross station.

I don't use the section between Marchmont St and Judd St illustrated
and have never seen this nonsense. I can't for the life of me think
why that crossover isn't arranged at the lights on the Judd St
junction

Well it is, as a result of the previous one, in that anyone continuing
east along Tavistock Place has to make the reverse move after a few
yards, across the path of cyclists heading west.

The whole assumption seems to be that all cyclists heading east will
turn south down Hunter Street, but I can't see why they should.

As for why the path has to stay on the north, I'm guessing that it
must be something to do with how one can get on to it at the Tottenham
Court Road end, where it is against the one-way flow of Torrington
Place. I can't remember how one gets to it from Tottenham Court Road,
unless there's a contraflow bike lane there.

It all sounds like assumptions that it is provided for cyclists making
particular journeys when they make a multitude of journeys. I turn North
at Marchmont St for example, as do many others, and have never used it as
far West as Tottenham Court Road.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Thu, 11 Sep 2008, MIG wrote:

On Sep 10, 11:18*am, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
In article ,

(Pyromancer) wrote:
Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Tom
Anderson gently breathed:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/twic/2844493252/

You should send that to the Warrington Cycle Campaign for their
"Facility Of The Month" page - top work!

I use the segregated cycle lane sections to the west of that location
between the Bedford Way/Tavistock Sq junction and Marchmont St on my way
from Westminster to King's Cross station.

I don't use the section between Marchmont St and Judd St illustrated and
have never seen this nonsense. I can't for the life of me think why that
crossover isn't arranged at the lights on the Judd St junction

Well it is, as a result of the previous one, in that anyone continuing
east along Tavistock Place has to make the reverse move after a few
yards, across the path of cyclists heading west.

The whole assumption seems to be that all cyclists heading east will
turn south down Hunter Street, but I can't see why they should.

No. And since the route continues to the east, via the recently and
expensively rearranged Ampton Street, that can't actually be one of their
assumptions. Which makes the current layout completely inexplicable.

As for why the path has to stay on the north, I'm guessing that it must
be something to do with how one can get on to it at the Tottenham Court
Road end, where it is against the one-way flow of Torrington Place. I
can't remember how one gets to it from Tottenham Court Road, unless
there's a contraflow bike lane there.

There isn't. You cross over TCR, then come down Huntley Street to
Torrington Place. I think. If you're coming from the western end of the
SSL, on New Cavendish Street, that is.

tom

--
Subvert the paradigm!