Boris admits bendy-buses are safe - but he'll axe them anyway
 

Adrian wrote:
If the wagon overtook the cyclist immediately before turning left, then
the indicators are irrelevant - the HGV driver is absolutely bang-to-
rights guilty.

If the cyclist was undertaking the wagon as the wagon slowed down with a
junction or entrance coming up on the left, then the indicators are
irrelevant - the cyclist made a monumentally ****ing stupid manouvre,
basically committing suicide.

What about the intermediate situation where the driver started to
overtake some distance back, didn't make it past or pull in, and then
started to indicate. Happened to me with a bus today. I shouted, and he
turned behind me.

Same applies if they were both stationary at lights. If the wagon pulled
up next to a cyclist already there, then the driver is utterly to blame.
If the cyclist went up the inside of a stationary wagon, then the cyclist
is utterly to blame.

Unless there are two full lanes, and the lorry is in the offside one and
not indicating. Indicators are definitely relevant in this case.
Nearside cycle lanes are slightly different because the lorry should not
be in them even if turning left.

Colin McKenzie

--
No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at the
population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as walking.
Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org.

Boris admits bendy-buses are safe - but he'll axe them anyway
 

Boltar wrote:
On Oct 23, 1:24 am, John B wrote:
I'd be interested to see a breakdown of fatalities/injuries by HGV
class. My expectation would be that big vans were by far the biggest
killers, not least because 40-tonne container trucks and cement

Them and 7.5 tonners who as far as I can see are generally driven by
transit drivers who've been given a promotion for the day.

You would both be wrong. Badly-driven vans and LGVs may cause injuries,
but rarely fatalities. In London this year 9 out of 11 cyclist
fatalities have involved HGVs. The long-term average is about 50%.

Colin McKenzie


--
No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at the
population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as walking.
Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org.

Boris admits bendy-buses are safe - but he'll axe them anyway
 

Colin McKenzie gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying:

If the wagon overtook the cyclist immediately before turning left, then
the indicators are irrelevant - the HGV driver is absolutely bang-to-
rights guilty.

What about the intermediate situation where the driver started to
overtake some distance back, didn't make it past or pull in, and then
started to indicate. Happened to me with a bus today. I shouted, and he
turned behind me.

I'd have said that was fairly clearly covered in that first scenario.

Same applies if they were both stationary at lights. If the wagon
pulled up next to a cyclist already there, then the driver is utterly
to blame. If the cyclist went up the inside of a stationary wagon, then
the cyclist is utterly to blame.

Unless there are two full lanes, and the lorry is in the offside one and
not indicating.

In L2, and turning left? I'd imagine the cars in L1 would have something
to say about that, too... Unless, of course, L1 was left-turn-only...?

Indicators are definitely relevant in this case.

I'd have said the left-turn-only signage on L1 was probably more
relevant, but that's probably just me...

Boris admits bendy-buses are safe - but he'll axe them anyway
 

Boltar wrote:
On Oct 23, 3:25 pm, Tom Anderson wrote:
They could put the engine on top of the cab.

That would make the transmission a bit complicated, though.

Would probably look quite good though :) I suppose in theory they
could have the engine offset to one side and have a one person only
cab on the other side at the same level. Though I suspect HGV drivers
actually like their high up view lording it over the rest of us :)

Yes. And for that reason such a design wouldn't sell, unless made
compulsory.

I'd have the driver in front of the engine and under the load -
containers ride higher than the roof of many cars.

This would improve forward and side visibility, and stop the driver
feeling superior.

Also he would know that in a severe collision he'd get the engine in his
back followed by the load on his head!

Colin McKenzie


--
No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at the
population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as walking.
Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org.

Boris admits bendy-buses are safe - but he'll axe them anyway
 

On 22 Oct, 10:54, wrote:
Quite frankly I tend to find (not here, but in general) that a lot of
the criticism the bendies get comes from people who've never even been
on one (let alone used them regularly),

So the views of these people don't count then?

I've never been on a bendy bus, and pretty much never choose to travel
on buses (despite getting free travel on them).

I have, however, on many occasions come out of an Underground station
and been unable to cross a road because a bendy bus is blocking the
road, or had a road journey (by bicycle or car) take longer because of
congestion caused by these hideous things.

I have also witnessed safety-related incidents where the traffic
movements caused by bendy buses has posed a danger to cyclists and
pedestrians.

But, of course, my views don't count because I've never been on a
bendy bus.

Boris admits bendy-buses are safe - but he'll axe them anyway
 

On 22 Oct, 12:10, Boltar wrote:
If a cyclist is dumb enough to get wiped out by a bendy bus they'd
probably have been squished by an HGV sooner or later anyway. The
golden rule of cycling is you do not pass any sort of vehicle on the
inside near a left turn.

All very nice in theory, until the poor judgement, stupidity, mistake
or incompetence of another road user puts them in that situation. Or
the HGV chooses to stop alongside them and then decides to turn left.
Or the HGV pulls out in front of them. Etc etc.

(Having said that the standard of cycling in London is not good, but
is still much better than that of most drivers).

Boris admits bendy-buses are safe - but he'll axe them anyway
 

On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 12:56:32 -0700 (PDT), BRB Class 465
wrote:

I have, however, on many occasions come out of an Underground station
and been unable to cross a road because a bendy bus is blocking the
road

In London, I find lorry drivers are far, far worse at doing that.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Boris admits bendy-buses are safe - but he'll axe them anyway
 

On Oct 23, 5:13 pm, Colin McKenzie wrote:
Boltar wrote:
On Oct 23, 3:25 pm, Tom Anderson wrote:
They could put the engine on top of the cab.

That would make the transmission a bit complicated, though.

Would probably look quite good though :) I suppose in theory they
could have the engine offset to one side and have a one person only
cab on the other side at the same level. Though I suspect HGV drivers
actually like their high up view lording it over the rest of us :)

Yes. And for that reason such a design wouldn't sell, unless made
compulsory.

Well , it has other problems in that he'd have bugger all visibility
on one side which would make the situation with regards to cyclists
and every other road user worse , not better.

This would improve forward and side visibility, and stop the driver
feeling superior.

Wouldn't do much for stability though with the load up high.

Also he would know that in a severe collision he'd get the engine in his
back followed by the load on his head!

It probably would make the more gung ho drivers a bit more reserved ,
but the extra height would probably be an issue. Things could be worse
though - we could have bonneted trucks like in the states where the
driver has 6 foot of engine between him and whatever he hits.

B2003

Boris admits bendy-buses are safe - but he'll axe them anyway
 

On 24 Oct, 09:30, Boltar wrote:
It probably would make the more gung ho drivers a bit more reserved ,
but the extra height would probably be an issue. Things could be worse
though - we could have bonneted trucks like in the states where the
driver has 6 foot of engine between him and whatever he hits.

You could always put the engine behind the cab:
http://www.lkw-infos.eu/images/oldti...16320-(MN).jpg

U

Boris admits bendy-buses are safe - but he'll axe them anyway
 

On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 07:40:02AM -0700, Boltar wrote:

Would probably look quite good though :) I suppose in theory they
could have the engine offset to one side and have a one person only
cab on the other side at the same level. Though I suspect HGV drivers
actually like their high up view lording it over the rest of us :)

Dunno if they like lording it over the rest of us, but they do like to
be able to see to both sides. Cyclists do too, as it means that the
lorry driver has at least *some* chance of seeing the suicidal idiots
trying to overtake on the left.

--
David Cantrell | Cake Smuggler Extraordinaire

Featu an incorrectly implemented bug

Boris admits bendy-buses are safe - but he'll axe them anyway
 

On 23 Oct, 13:01, Boltar wrote:
On Oct 23, 12:51 pm, MIG wrote:

On 23 Oct, 11:03, Boltar wrote:

On Oct 23, 10:52 am, MIG wrote:

So that you can get past the junction before they all turn left into
you, or veer towards the kerb etc etc.

Why would they turn left into you if you stay behind them?

Because the queue continues to build up and many of the drivers in it
won't have seen you. *Or do you suggest scooting backwards till you
are at the back of any possible queue?

Err no, you act like any other vehicle and stand in the middle of the
lane so cars can't pass you while in the queue or head up the right
hand side to the end of the queue then sit at the head of it so
everyone has seen you including the vehicles at the front.

Let me just explain what really happens, day after day, junction after
junction.

You are cycling along a reasonably wide road, keeping left (not in the
gutter) and motorised traffic is overtaking you at, say, 30 mph on
your right. Let's assume that there are no parked cars. In that
situation you are effectively in your own lane.

At the approach to a junction, the traffic to your right slows down,
and the gaps between vehicles decrease until there is an impregnable
queue to your right. In nearly all cases, you continue in your own
lane to the front of the queue and there will be enough space to do
so.

To be in the middle of the lane that cars were using you would have to
have either been restricting all traffic on the road to the speed of a
bicycle or else effectively changed lane by veering into the narrowing
gap between moving vehicles at a point when you judged that they were
slowing sufficiently. I think that would be reckless behaviour.

In a narrow country lane, you might well be in the same lane as the
cars in the way that you describe, but this is rarely the case in main
roads in towns.

This will probably attract more abuse from those who believe that
bicycles should be driven as if they are cars and take up the same
road positions as cars, but in the real world I'm afraid that we don't
have the same performance characteristics and have to recognise our
limitations.

Boris admits bendy-buses are safe - but he'll axe them anyway
 

On Oct 24, 9:53 am, Mr Thant
wrote:

You could always put the engine behind the cab:http://www.lkw-infos.eu/images/oldti...hre/Buessing-2...

It looks a bit vulnerable slung under the frame. Probably why its not
done anymore.

B2003

Boris admits bendy-buses are safe - but he'll axe them anyway
 

John B wrote:

Fair point, although 'popular' only has any relevance at all when
compared to plausible alternatives (so if bendies weren't very popular
compared to, say, gold-plated Rolls-Royces, or double deckers that
weren't rammed so full you'd need to wait for three to pass before you
could get on one, then that's entirely irrelevant).

I've often been left standing at bus stops day and night because the bendies
are so packed they don't stop. Maybe the 29 is different but the 25 has been
a much worse travelling experience since becoming a bendy.