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Old October 21st 08, 11:25 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Boris admits bendy-buses are safe - but he'll axe them anyway

"I am informed that, thankfully, there have been no fatal accidents
arising from collisions between cyclists and articulated buses in
London since the introduction of articulated vehicles."

"Serious incidents are defined by TfL as those where a cyclist may
have required treatment, including in hospital. There was one serious
incident involving a cyclist in each of the years 2005/06 and 2006/07,
and two in 2007/08."

http://www.london.gov.uk/assembly/as...en_answers.pdf

In other words, the data collated by TfL and accepted by the mayor
clearly shows that bendy buses are not dangerous for cyclists.

However, in another demonstration that "being right-wing" and "paying
any attention, ever, to any evidence about anything" are mutually
exclusive, the mayor is continuing to describe bendy buses as "the
scourge of the cyclist" and to press on with his half-witted abolition
plans.

Thanks again, 4x4-wielding suburbanites and people who think that
'being funny on a game show' is a qualification for public office.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

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Old October 21st 08, 11:28 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Boris admits bendy-buses are safe - but he'll axe them anyway

On Oct 21, 12:25*pm, John B wrote:
"I am informed that, thankfully, there have been no fatal accidents
arising from collisions between cyclists and articulated buses in
London since the introduction of articulated vehicles."

"Serious incidents are defined by TfL as those where a cyclist may
have required treatment, including in hospital. There was one serious
incident involving a cyclist in each of the years 2005/06 and 2006/07,
and two in 2007/08."

http://www.london.gov.uk/assembly/as...15/minutes/wri...


....etc. Sorry, forgot to hat-tip Adam Bienkov (http://
torytroll.blogspot.com/2008/10/boriss-bendy-bus-jihad-
doublethink.html)

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org
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Old October 21st 08, 05:15 PM posted to uk.transport.london
MIG MIG is offline
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Default Boris admits bendy-buses are safe - but he'll axe them anyway

On Oct 21, 12:25*pm, John B wrote:
"I am informed that, thankfully, there have been no fatal accidents
arising from collisions between cyclists and articulated buses in
London since the introduction of articulated vehicles."

"Serious incidents are defined by TfL as those where a cyclist may
have required treatment, including in hospital. There was one serious
incident involving a cyclist in each of the years 2005/06 and 2006/07,
and two in 2007/08."

http://www.london.gov.uk/assembly/as...15/minutes/wri...

In other words, the data collated by TfL and accepted by the mayor
clearly shows that bendy buses are not dangerous for cyclists.

However, in another demonstration that "being right-wing" and "paying
any attention, ever, to any evidence about anything" are mutually
exclusive, the mayor is continuing to describe bendy buses as "the
scourge of the cyclist" and to press on with his half-witted abolition
plans.

Thanks again, 4x4-wielding suburbanites and people who think that
'being funny on a game show' is a qualification for public office.


I am sure that Boris is not qualified to pronounce on whether any kind
of vehicle is safe.

Are you sure that collisions between cyclists and bendy buses are the
relevant issue?

It would be interesting (if such things are recorded) to know how many
more collisions with other vehicles there are when trying to get past
bendy buses, how many people were injured trying to cross the road
when a crossing was blocked by a bendy bus etc etc.
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Old October 21st 08, 06:10 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Boris admits bendy-buses are safe - but he'll axe them anyway

John B wrote:

Thanks again, 4x4-wielding suburbanites


Ah the myth that bendies are only hated by car drivers. When campaigning for
Boris in areas served by bendies I found this policy to be very popular
amongst people who have to use them.

and people who think that
'being funny on a game show' is a qualification for public office.


It's called democracy. If the people of London didn't want Boris as their
Mayor he wouldn't have been voted into office. And if all Boris had ever
done was "be funny on a game show" he would never have got anywhere, let
alone into Parliament then the nomination and finally the office.


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Old October 21st 08, 08:26 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Boris admits bendy-buses are safe - but he'll axe them anyway

MIG wrote:

I am sure that Boris is not qualified to pronounce on whether any kind
of vehicle is safe.


I'm not sure he's qualified to tell us what day it is, on this evidence.

Are you sure that collisions between cyclists and bendy buses are the
relevant issue?


Well, Boris claimed last year that 'they wipe out cyclists, there are
many cyclists killed every year by them.', so it's relevant to the
question 'is Boris Johnson a competent man to chair TfL and direct
London's transport policy?'. Either he lied or someone lied to him and
he didn't check. Since there are previous examples of him doing both
those things I'm not sure which applies here, but it's one of them.


It would be interesting (if such things are recorded) to know how many
more collisions with other vehicles there are when trying to get past
bendy buses, how many people were injured trying to cross the road
when a crossing was blocked by a bendy bus etc etc.


The figures released in February showed that *when compared to non-artic
buses on similar routes* (a distinction lost on the Boris campaign who
claimed they had 'twice as many collisions' but compared them to London
buses in general, which is invalid since bendies operate only on high
density routes on busy roads) they were about the same in terms of
accidents per million miles operated. Of course, cycling has increased
massively over the last few years in London, bendy bus mileage has
increased from zero to whatever it is now and road accident fatalities
are sharply down, from which you can concluded that whatever
contribution bendies make to accident rates is dwarfed by other factors.
Therefore spending massive sums of money (60m annually) to replace
them is actually dangerous, considering that it's then money that
couldn't be spent on, say, schemes to improve safety. Not that Boris
has shown any interest in spending money to improve road safety, quite
the reverse, which is a separate but related issue.

There isn't really a way to spin this in Boris's favour from here, a lot
of people have clearly been taken for a ride by a cynical propaganda
campaign led by the 'thinktank' Policy Exchange, which has connections
to Cold War-era US propagandists. Bit beneath them to drum up a
campaign merely on buses, but you've got to keep your hand in, I suppose.

Tom


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Old October 21st 08, 09:38 PM posted to uk.transport.london
MIG MIG is offline
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Default Boris admits bendy-buses are safe - but he'll axe them anyway

On Oct 21, 9:26*pm, Tom Barry wrote:
MIG wrote:

I am sure that Boris is not qualified to pronounce on whether any kind
of vehicle is safe.


I'm not sure he's qualified to tell us what day it is, on this evidence.

Are you sure that collisions between cyclists and bendy buses are the
relevant issue?


Well, Boris claimed last year that 'they wipe out cyclists, there are
many cyclists killed every year by them.', so it's relevant to the
question 'is Boris Johnson a competent man to chair TfL and direct
London's transport policy?'. *Either he lied or someone lied to him and
he didn't check. *Since there are previous examples of him doing both
those things I'm not sure which applies here, but it's one of them.



It would be interesting (if such things are recorded) to know how many
more collisions with other vehicles there are when trying to get past
bendy buses, how many people were injured trying to cross the road
when a crossing was blocked by a bendy bus etc etc.


The figures released in February showed that *when compared to non-artic
buses on similar routes* (a distinction lost on the Boris campaign who
claimed they had 'twice as many collisions' but compared them to London
buses in general, which is invalid since bendies operate only on high
density routes on busy roads) they were about the same in terms of
accidents per million miles operated. *Of course, cycling has increased
massively over the last few years in London, bendy bus mileage has
increased from zero to whatever it is now and road accident fatalities
are sharply down, from which you can concluded that whatever
contribution bendies make to accident rates is dwarfed by other factors.
* Therefore spending massive sums of money (60m annually) to replace
them is actually dangerous, considering that it's then money that
couldn't be spent on, say, schemes to improve safety. *Not that Boris
has shown any interest in spending money to improve road safety, quite
the reverse, which is a separate but related issue.

There isn't really a way to spin this in Boris's favour from here, a lot
of people have clearly been taken for a ride by a cynical propaganda
campaign led by the 'thinktank' Policy Exchange, which has connections
to Cold War-era US propagandists. *Bit beneath them to drum up a
campaign merely on buses, but you've got to keep your hand in, I suppose.


I think you'll find that those of us who hate bendy buses hated them
long before Boris or any Tories ever mentioned them.

However, I hate Tory transport non-policy a lot more, and I wouldn't
suggest scrapping existing buses before their normal life expectancy.
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Old October 21st 08, 10:40 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Boris admits bendy-buses are safe - but he'll axe them anyway

On Tue, 21 Oct 2008, John B wrote:

However, in another demonstration that "being right-wing" and "paying
any attention, ever, to any evidence about anything" are mutually
exclusive, the mayor is continuing to describe bendy buses as "the
scourge of the cyclist"


Funny you should point out that correlation - i was amused by the comment
of one Mr Stephen Green in this entirely separate story:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7681914.stm

Thanks again, 4x4-wielding suburbanites and people who think that 'being
funny on a game show' is a qualification for public office.


Democracy!

tom

--
No Hype Just Science
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Old October 21st 08, 10:41 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Boris admits bendy-buses are safe - but he'll axe them anyway

On Tue, 21 Oct 2008, Tom Barry wrote:

MIG wrote:

It would be interesting (if such things are recorded) to know how many
more collisions with other vehicles there are when trying to get past
bendy buses, how many people were injured trying to cross the road
when a crossing was blocked by a bendy bus etc etc.


The figures released in February showed that *when compared to non-artic
buses on similar routes* (a distinction lost on the Boris campaign who
claimed they had 'twice as many collisions' but compared them to London
buses in general, which is invalid since bendies operate only on high
density routes on busy roads) they were about the same in terms of
accidents per million miles operated.


I seem to recall that they were about a third lower than the non-bendies,
actually. This could easily be within the margin of error, however.

tom

--
No Hype Just Science
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Old October 21st 08, 11:08 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Boris admits bendy-buses are safe - but he'll axe them anyway

On Oct 21, 7:10*pm, "Tim Roll-Pickering" T.C.Roll-
wrote:
Thanks again, 4x4-wielding suburbanites


Ah the myth that bendies are only hated by car drivers. When campaigning for
Boris in areas served by bendies I found this policy to be very popular
amongst people who have to use them.


I'm deeply sceptical, although it's possible that the people you spoke
to were idiots. In real life, bendies provide a much better service
than other buses on a given route.

and people who think that
'being funny on a game show' is a qualification for public office.


It's called democracy. If the people of London didn't want Boris as their
Mayor he wouldn't have been voted into office.


The people of London didn't want Boris as their mayor. The people of
various unsavoury outposts that the Tories gerrymandered into Greater
London in the first place to end Labour's dominance of the County of
London wanted Boris as their mayor; the people of actual London voted
for Ken.

And if all Boris had ever
done was "be funny on a game show" he would never have got anywhere, let
alone into Parliament then the nomination and finally the office.


You have a bizarrely misplaced faith in the processes governing the
acquisition of political office by the sons of extremely wealthy and
successful people.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org
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Old October 21st 08, 11:23 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Boris admits bendy-buses are safe - but he'll axe them anyway

In article
,
(John B) wrote:

"Serious incidents are defined by TfL as those where a cyclist may
have required treatment, including in hospital. There was one serious
incident involving a cyclist in each of the years 2005/06 and 2006/07,
and two in 2007/08."

http://www.london.gov.uk/assembly/as...t15/minutes/wr
itten_answers.pdf

In other words, the data collated by TfL and accepted by the mayor
clearly shows that bendy buses are not dangerous for cyclists.


Those figures read dangerous to me. How many bendies are there and how
many accidents involving other buses are there, and how many of them are
there?

I hate bendies because they are just too long to mix with other traffic.

--
Colin Rosenstiel


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