Yes, I've used the Journey Planner - now I'm looking for some common
sense.

What's the best route from Heathrow T3 to Danescroft on Brent Street?
I'd prefer to avoid Heathrow Express. I will have a large, heavy,
wheeled suitcase, so steps and long walks are best avoided, although I
can deal with either.

I've come up with the following options:

Piccadilly to Leicester Square, Northern to Golders Green, 83/183/230
bus to my destination.
£4.40

Piccadilly to Leicester Square, Northern to Hendon Central, 83/183/230
bus to my destination.
£4.40

Piccadilly to Leicester Square, Northern to Brent Cross or Hendon
Central (which is closer/easier?), walk to my destination.
£3.50

Heathrow Connect to Ealing Broadway, 83 bus to my destination.
£6.40

Piccadilly to District to Ealing Broadway, 83 bus to my destination.
£2.70

Piccadilly to Piccadilly to Alperton, 83 bus to my destination.
£2.70

Any other suggestions? Thoughts on these options? Is the 83 an
interesting ride?

My flight arrives Thursday morning at 9:35.

Thanks.
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

On Nov 4, 3:11*am, David of Broadway
wrote:
Yes, I've used the Journey Planner - now I'm looking for some common
sense.

What's the best route from Heathrow T3 to Danescroft on Brent Street? *
I'd prefer to avoid Heathrow Express. *I will have a large, heavy,
wheeled suitcase, so steps and long walks are best avoided, although I
can deal with either.

I've come up with the following options:

Piccadilly to Leicester Square, Northern to Golders Green, 83/183/230
bus to my destination.
£4.40

Piccadilly to Leicester Square, Northern to Hendon Central, 83/183/230
bus to my destination.
£4.40

Piccadilly to Leicester Square, Northern to Brent Cross or Hendon
Central (which is closer/easier?), walk to my destination.
£3.50

Heathrow Connect to Ealing Broadway, 83 bus to my destination.
£6.40

Piccadilly to District to Ealing Broadway, 83 bus to my destination.
£2.70

Piccadilly to Piccadilly to Alperton, 83 bus to my destination.
£2.70

Any other suggestions? *Thoughts on these options? *Is the 83 an
interesting ride?

My flight arrives Thursday morning at 9:35.

If you don't mind a bit of a trundle round North West London then the
cheapest and simplest option is Bus 140 to Harrow Bus Station and then
Bus 183 to Brent Street. Total cost £4 in cash or £1.80 using PAYG.
You've got one escalator to get up from the low level concourse to the
bus station at Heathrow and level transfer at Harrow Bus Station.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/gettingaro...arrow-2118.pdf

The 140 is a busy service and takes an hour to Harrow. Frequency is
every 8 minutes. Departs bus stop 19 at Heathrow Central Bus Station.
Arrives stop A at Harrow.

http://www.londonbusroutes.net/times/140.htm

The 183 is also pretty busy and takes 45 mins to Hendon. Frequency
every 12 minutes. Departs stop E at Harrow Bus Station.

http://www.londonbusroutes.net/times/140.htm

It'll take an hour on the tube to Central London and probably 40 mins
or so on the Northern Line so are you really any further forward going
that way? Obviously the bus might get delayed so there's a risk
there but I assume getting *from* the airport is less time critical
than a return journey would be.

Paul Corfield via Google.

On 4 Nov, 03:11, David of Broadway
wrote:
Yes, I've used the Journey Planner - now I'm looking for some common
sense.

What's the best route from Heathrow T3 to Danescroft on Brent Street?
I'd prefer to avoid Heathrow Express. I will have a large, heavy,
wheeled suitcase, so steps and long walks are best avoided, although I
can deal with either.

I've come up with the following options:


Wow, lots of options, you've certainly been doing your homework and
you've identified some interesting and unorthodox routes as well.


Piccadilly to Leicester Square, Northern to Golders Green, 83/183/230
bus to my destination.
£4.40

Piccadilly to Leicester Square, Northern to Hendon Central, 83/183/230
bus to my destination.
£4.40


The conventional options. Boringly, these are probably what I'd
recommend (unless that is you fancied being adventurous). The change
at Leicester Square from the Piccadilly to the Northern isn't any more
difficult or onerous than any other interchange at Victorian-era tube
stations which weren't really designed with such use in mind - a bit
of lugging of bags along passageways and up and down a few stairs but
there's no need for any heroics or anything.


From Hendon Central, only the 83 goes from a bus stop right next to
the station entrance, stop A, whilst the 183 and 230 go from stops U
and W further away - see (PDF):
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/gettingaro...ntral-2124.pdf

Meanwhile at Golders Green there is a proper bus station outside the
tube station, and the 83 and 183 go from stop GH whilst the 240 uses
the immediately adjacent stop GI - see(PDF):
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/gettingaro...green-2098.pdf


So whilst Golders Green is a little further away I'd say the ease of
getting on one of several buses from there means it wins. My (possibly
erroneous) memory also suggests that there are fewer steps to
negotiate from the platforms down to street level at Golders Green
compared to the number of steps from the platforms up to street level
at Hendon Central... though I've just checked and HC has step-free
access (i.e. a lift) from platform level up to street level whilst GG
doesn't. However personally I don't think that makes it a deal
breaker, as at GG the platforms are only at 'road bridge height' so
the single flight of steps down aren't a major hassle in my books.

All that said, either/or would be a decent option.


Piccadilly to Leicester Square, Northern to Brent Cross or Hendon
Central (which is closer/easier?), walk to my destination.
£3.50


Doable in my books, though you did say you'd have a large heavy
suitcase (albeit one on wheels). The walk from Hendon Central would
involve going down a hill (though I don't think it's *that* steep), so
if one were to do this I'd walk from Brent Cross along the side
streets (Golders Manor Drive/ Sinclair Grove) to Golders Green Road.
There is a pedestrian bridge to cross over the busy North Circular
Road to get over to Brent Street. I imagine that this would be the
normal route for people from Danescroft to get to a Northern line
station to get into town, though I suppose it's possible the walk to
Hendon Central (perhaps through the park) is nicer, I dunno.


Heathrow Connect to Ealing Broadway, 83 bus to my destination.
£6.40

Piccadilly to District to Ealing Broadway, 83 bus to my destination.
£2.70

Piccadilly to Piccadilly to Alperton, 83 bus to my destination.
£2.70


Intriguing - variations on a 'round the back' route via the 83 bus. My
gut instinct is that any of these routes would take longer - the
Journey Planner has Heathrow Central to Golders Green taking around an
hour an a quarter by tube - but on thinking about it perhaps they're
not actually that bad.

Alperton to Green Lane / Brent Cross (v near Danescroft) is timetabled
at 41 minutes off-peak, and Ealing Broadway to Green Lane / Brent
Cross at 57 mins.

There are several steps to negotiate when leaving Ealing Broadway
station, also leaving Alperton station (though I'm not familiar with
it), and also when changing direction at Acton Town between the two
Piccadilly branches. If one was to choose the 83 route and go by
Underground then heading to Alperton would on the face of it appear to
make more sense, what with Alperton being closer to your destination
(this avoids Ealing Broadway station which is somewhat hectic at the
best of times). Journey Planner says Heathrow to Alperton would take
39 minutes by Tube. The 83 bus stop is right outside the station as
well (PDF):
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/gettingaro...erton-2008.pdf

I'm not sure what I think about the idea taking the Heathrow Connect
to Ealing Broadway. It's only a half-hourly service, though it does
only take 18 minutes to make the journey. It's more expensive and
doesn't deliver you to Alperton which is closer to your destination. I
think I'd factor that option out.

I'd say the 83 is an interesting route in that it gives you a taste of
what parts of north west London are about - not necessarily amazingly
notable places, but these are places where ordinary Londoners live
and, to an extent, work. You'd be travelling through a part of London
that really came into existence in the first half of the 20th century,
with lots of interwar houses and buildings - the era of Metroland and
of the great suburban spread of London.

The great feature you would see en-route from the bus is the new
Wembley Stadium, with its grand new arch which dominates the sky line
all around this side of London. The bus goes right past the stadium.

By going to Alperton rather than Ealing Broadway you would miss out on
a bit of the 'scenery' from the bus - and I do think Ealing is an
interesting and pleasant part of town - but the route of the 83 very
quickly take you out of Ealing and up the uninspiring Hanger Lane road
so it's no great loss. The Piccadilly line would of course be
interesting in itself, though unfortunately you would not get as far
up the Rayners Lane branch as the splendid Sudbury stations.

One other thought that stupidly has just struck me is that, what with
you hauling a with a heavy bag around with you, you won't exactly be
keen on going up to the top-deck of the bus! It's not like there
aren't windows on the bottom deck though, and you can perhaps do some
more close quartered people watching down there what with the comings
and goings on and off the bus and people outside the window at street
level.


Any other suggestions? Thoughts on these options? Is the 83 an
interesting ride?

My flight arrives Thursday morning at 9:35.

Thanks.


Your flight arrival time is ideal for avoiding the rush hour, so you
avoid both the crush of passengers and also the traffic jams. I dare
say that this would actually quite a good time to try out the 83 route
if you wanted to be adventurous - the morning rush would be over, the
afternoon school time rush still a long time away, so both traffic and
passenger numbers would be light, and of course there would be full
daylight! The 83 runs regularly, "about every 6-10 minutes" between
8am and 8pm (so says the Journey Planner), so you wouldn't have long
to wait. Broadly speaking bus services in London are far more reliable
than they were a decade or so ago, so I don't think there'd really be
any reason to worry about whether the bus will actually turn up or
not.

If you've any more questions then fire away - others more familiar
with the area might be able to put me straight if they think anything
I've said is dubious. And do tell come back and tell us what you
eventually did and how it went.


P.S. One general thing worth bearing in mind for your trip is that
each weekend parts of the Underground network are closed for upgrade
works which could affect your journey - that said there doesn't appear
to be any upcoming work on the Northern line that would affect your
using the Northern line to get into town during your stay.

See this page for details of upcoming works on LU:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/livetravel...ll-future.html
(also see the "Today" and "This Weekend" tabs on the above page)

On 4 Nov, 10:57, Paul Corfield wrote:

(snip)

If you don't mind a bit of a trundle round North West London then the
cheapest and simplest option is Bus 140 to Harrow Bus Station and then
Bus 183 to Brent Street. *Total cost £4 in cash or £1.80 using PAYG..
You've got one escalator to get up from the low level concourse to the
bus station at Heathrow and level transfer at Harrow Bus Station.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/gettingaro...arrow-2118.pdf

The 140 is a busy service and takes an hour to Harrow. *Frequency is
every 8 minutes. Departs bus stop 19 at Heathrow Central Bus Station.
Arrives stop A at Harrow.

http://www.londonbusroutes.net/times/140.htm

The 183 is also pretty busy and takes 45 mins to Hendon. Frequency
every 12 minutes. Departs stop E at Harrow Bus Station.

http://www.londonbusroutes.net/times/140.htm

It'll take an hour on the tube to Central London and probably 40 mins
or so on the Northern Line so are you really any further forward going
that way? * Obviously the bus might get delayed so there's a risk
there but I assume getting *from* the airport is less time critical
than a return journey would be.



Not that I'm against going by bus - not at all in fact, I'm all in for
taking the unconventional route (see my reply to David) - but I think
that estimate of a tube journey time is a bit over the top... Journey
Planner has it taking around an hour and a quarter - the scheduled
time on the Picc to Leicester Sq is 50 mins from Heathrow Central,
then on the Northern to Golders Green it's just over 20 minutes.

On 4 Nov, 10:57, Paul Corfield wrote:

(snip)

If you don't mind a bit of a trundle round North West London then the
cheapest and simplest option is Bus 140 to Harrow Bus Station and then
Bus 183 to Brent Street. Total cost £4 in cash or £1.80 using PAYG.
You've got one escalator to get up from the low level concourse to the
bus station at Heathrow and level transfer at Harrow Bus Station.


Sorry for yet another reply but I noticed something and thought I
should comment (again!). The total cost if paying in cash (as opposed
to Oyster PAYG) for two bus journeys could be just £3.50 if the
passenger manages to buy a one-day Bus Pass. Said one-day Bus Pass is
valid 0430 to 0429 so there's no peak/off-peak divide to worry about.

The unwary should be warned that these tickets cannot be purchased on-
board a bus. They can however be bought at all 'Ticket Stops' (i.e.
the many newsagents and local shops that sell TfL tickets); from Tube
station ticket offices and self-service ticket machines; from roadside
ticket machines near bus stops where they are provided (which is only
at some bus stops [1] - note that these machines do not give change);
and from TfL Travel Information Centres (such as the one at Heathrow
opposite the entrance to Heathrow Central tube station - a very handy
resource because it's likely you'll get served quicker there than at
the station's ticket office).

In this particular instance the saving would only be 50p, but if
Oyster-less passengers are intending to make two bus trips in one day
they'd be well advised to buy a one-day pass instead which would
obviously afford them the benefit of total flexibility in their bus
travels that day.


-----
[1] All bus stops in the central London pay-before-you-board area
feature these roadside ticket machines.

Thanks to both of you for the advice.

I'll print out this thread and decide while waiting in line at passport
control.

Incidentally - having posted here on and off for several years now (I
believe my first post, in 2006, was complaining about inconvenient - to
me - scheduled engineering work at Heathrow T123) - I wouldn't mind
meeting some members of the group while I'm in London. (Actually, I've
already met one, but that was in New York.) Sent me an email if you'd
like to meet up - although my Internet access will be spotty at best in
London (anybody have any suggestions for free or inexpensive wi-fi in or
near Hendon?), so it would be best to catch me by 5pm New York time
(10pm London time) on Wednesday. I'm in town until 18 November.
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

David of Broadway wrote:
anybody have any suggestions for free or inexpensive wi-fi in or
near Hendon?

Most/all Wetherspoon [1] pubs and McDonald's restaurants have free wifi.
The Wetherspoon connections require a username and password (see link)
but the McDonalds ones are provided by The Cloud and need no
registration or password, though you need to open a browser window and
keep it open on their special page before you can download email.

If you're here long enough and want easy online access, you can get a
T-Mobile 3G 'mobile broadband' PAYG USB modem for £50 and use it
anywhere for £2 per day, or £10 per 7 days, or £20 per 30 days. [2]


[1]
http://www.jdwetherspoon.co.uk/pubs/....php#free-wifi

[2] http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobil...r-day-options/

In message , at 08:41:58 on
Wed, 5 Nov 2008, Thunderbug remarked:
If you're here long enough and want easy online access, you can get a
T-Mobile 3G 'mobile broadband' PAYG USB modem for £50 and use it
anywhere for £2 per day, or £10 per 7 days, or £20 per 30 days. [2]

Or a "3" one for only £39 + £10 a month on PAYG.

http://threestore.three.co.uk/payg/?modem=1&id=1183
--
Roland Perry

It occurred to me that, with some additional trips planned in the
evening, I'd hit the daily cap if I took the Tube and I'd only save 20p
by going by bus. Also, I decided to hit two stations I'd never been to
yet (T5 wasn't open when I was last here, and T4 was closed on my last
two visits and hadn't yet opened by my prior visit).

So, the route I ended up taking was Piccadilly from T123 to T5,
Piccadilly from T5 to Hatton Cross, Piccadilly from Hatton Cross to T4,
run through the gates and back onto the same train (to reset the two-
hour clock), Piccadilly from T4 to Leicester Square, Northern to Golders
Green, and 183 bus to my destination.

Right now I'm sitting at St. Pancras. A free concert just began.
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA (normally)

David of Broadway wrote:
Right now I'm sitting at St. Pancras. A free concert just began.

There's one at Paddington on Friday evenings, if you like that sort of
thing.

Colin McKenzie

--
No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at the
population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as walking.
Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org.