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Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
On Nov 25, 5:15*pm, Boltar wrote:
On Nov 25, 5:03 pm, "Andrew Heenan" wrote: "Boltar" wrote Lighten up. Its a common colloquialism and the nazis are just another part history for anyone under the age of 63. Only *ignorant* people under 63. And if it's just another part of history, then why bring it up and prove your ignorance? Oh give it a rest FFS. The nazis weren't the first genocidal state in history and they won't be the last. Making out there were some sort of special case is just BS. Even in the 20th century Stalin persecuted and murdered far more people than hitler managed yet no one objects the the word "stalinist" being used. The Khmer Rouge are estimated to have murdered a 5th of the total population of Cambodia and god knows what the death toll in Rwanda is up to these days. Yeah, and don't they realise that the current totally irrelevant and inappropriate term for people one disagrees with is "Taliban". ("Trying to prevent people being trapped in train doors? That's how Hitler got started.") |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
On Nov 25, 5:16*pm, D7666 wrote:
The second man is there to sell the tickets on the Stahlbahns line, isn't he ? Yes indeed he does sell tickets but from 2 recent trips on the line seemed to me the guard was doing more than commercial duties and doing the traditional gurads role. When I commuted on the branch, there was a driver, a guard and at least one ticket seller (in the 80s, most mornings it was a guy called Joe who knew all the regulars). Has the separate ticket seller disappeared now? The guard only seemed to sell tickets at weekends. |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008, D7666 wrote:
On Nov 25, 4:57 pm, Boltar wrote: On Nov 25, 2:05 pm, "Richard J." wrote: By the way, please don't use the word 'nazi' to describe something that's just irritating. It's gratuitous exaggeration, doesn't help your argument, and devalues the horrors of the real Nazis. Lighten up. Its a common colloquialism Indeed. If one goes down the road of censorship i.e. by attempting to prevent the use of certain words then [a] one is guilty of the same totalitarianism of the subject that started this digression [b] one will ended up not using any adjectives in case someone somewhere at sometime did something to somebody in history. Yeah. And then you'd just look like a spastic. Do you see what i did there. tom -- The literature is filled with bizarre occurrances for which we have no explanation |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:19:41 -0800 (PST) someone who may be D7666
wrote this:- If one goes down the road of censorship i.e. by attempting to prevent the use of certain words I'm not sure that anyone did try and prevent the use of the N-word. I'm not sure how they could either. They did point out a possibly inappropriate nature of the use of the N-word, which is rather different though I make no comment on this particular instance. They appear to have just put forward an opinion. It is a point I have some sympathy for. I made a similar point when someone described (GNER) ticket inspectors as the Gestapo. A member of my family, now dead, had an encounter with the real Gestapo a long time ago and they were very different to any ticket inspectors I have ever encountered. All I will say about it is that they broke every bone in his body. The effects (both mental and physical) lasted until the day he died and people had to be advised what not to do before meeting him. There was nothing even remotely amusing about the Gestapo and it is right to point out that some comparisons are very wide of the mark. I have zero tolerance for some comparisons. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
MIG wrote:
On Nov 25, 5:15 pm, Boltar wrote: On Nov 25, 5:03 pm, "Andrew Heenan" wrote: "Boltar" wrote Lighten up. Its a common colloquialism and the nazis are just another part history for anyone under the age of 63. Only *ignorant* people under 63. And if it's just another part of history, then why bring it up and prove your ignorance? Oh give it a rest FFS. The nazis weren't the first genocidal state in history and they won't be the last. Making out there were some sort of special case is just BS. Even in the 20th century Stalin persecuted and murdered far more people than hitler managed yet no one objects the the word "stalinist" being used. The Khmer Rouge are estimated to have murdered a 5th of the total population of Cambodia and god knows what the death toll in Rwanda is up to these days. Yeah, and don't they realise that the current totally irrelevant and inappropriate term for people one disagrees with is "Taliban". ("Trying to prevent people being trapped in train doors? That's how Hitler got started.") I'm waiting for the day that someone claims that making the trains run on time is offensive to victims of fascism, and possibly discriminates against Abyssinians. The other one is the constant description of passengers as being in "cattle trucks", presumbly not meaning that they have been unable to travel by rail since the 1970s or so, and then for export. -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:52:17 -0000, "John Kenyon"
wrote: "Neil Williams" wrote in message ... SNIP [1] Run fast to MKC only due to a delay, presumably so it got a free run on the slows in front of the 1824 without delaying it. It would, IMO, have made sense to stop it at Cheddington (if anyone wanted it) and Bletchley, though, as it'd have seriously reduced the load on the 1824. Or to have attached 4 of its 8 cars onto the 1824 and removed them at Bletchley. Or simply just switch the set, and the platforms accordingly... Er, switch 8 cars for 8? I was suggesting that the train that was effectively being cancelled could have been split, leaving 4 cars at Euston to pick up later, with 12 being on the useful one. The 4 could have been removed at Bletchley by the second train's driver and guard and sent to MKC to form the (short-formed and slightly more delayed, but it wouldn't matter as much at that time of night on a southbound) "missing" train, to be reunited with the other 4 at Euston. Or something like that... Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
On Nov 25, 6:23 pm, Andy wrote:
Has the separate ticket seller disappeared now? The guard only seemed to sell tickets at weekends. Well if there was a 3rd crew member they stayed well hidden in one of the cabs. But I doubt in the 21st century any TOC would three man an operation like Watford Snorbens. -- Nick |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
On Nov 25, 6:55 pm, wrote:
Going off at a Tangent any one know if Sarah Siddons is still switchable between the two systems following the work done on it recently? I asked that question recently ... no-one seemed to know what I was talking about and one (Metronet) [1] engineer flatly refused to believe it had ever strayed off 3rd+4th rail. [1] no I don't work for them -- Nick |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
On Nov 25, 9:03 pm, David Hansen
wrote: Was the locomotive able to run on a 750V system? Yes it went to Portsmouth and Folkestone at least http://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/80s/840707mr.htm http://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/80s/850921lt.htm as well as Windsor shuttles, maybe more. -- Nick |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
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Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
On Nov 25, 5:19*pm, D7666 wrote:
On Nov 25, 4:57 pm, Boltar wrote: On Nov 25, 2:05 pm, "Richard J." wrote: By the way, please don't use the word 'nazi' to describe something that's just irritating. *It's gratuitous exaggeration, doesn't help your argument, and devalues the horrors of the real Nazis. Lighten up. Its a common colloquialism Indeed. If one goes down the road of censorship i.e. by attempting to prevent the use of certain words then [a] one is guilty of the same totalitarianism of the subject that started this digression [b] one will ended up not using any adjectives in case someone somewhere at sometime did something to somebody in history. As someone who is sometimes flippant and exaggerates, I am often corrected on what I say. I would never consider it to be "censorship" if someone suggests that I should be more accurate. It would be too bizarre even for me to defend my inaccuracy on the grounds of correction being censorship. |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 13:23:59 -0800 (PST), D7666
wrote: On Nov 25, 9:03 pm, David Hansen wrote: Was the locomotive able to run on a 750V system? ITYF that Sarah Siddons is electrically a bit more basic than a modern locomotive and the necessary mods were mostly concerned with the voltage rating of cable insulation and providing a method of altering the current return path; these might have been dealt with at marginal cost during one of its overhauls during "retirement". I don't recall anyone mentioning what was done about the motors, if anything. Yes it went to Portsmouth and Folkestone at least http://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/80s/840707mr.htm http://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/80s/850921lt.htm as well as Windsor shuttles, maybe more. |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008, D7666 wrote:
On Nov 25, 6:23 pm, Andy wrote: Has the separate ticket seller disappeared now? The guard only seemed to sell tickets at weekends. Well if there was a 3rd crew member they stayed well hidden in one of the cabs. But I doubt in the 21st century any TOC would three man an operation like Watford Snorbens. Unless they were pushing the train, to save on electricity. tom -- Mpreg is short for Male Impregnation and I cannot get enough. -- D |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 08:57:17 +0000, David Hansen
wrote: On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 20:32:20 -0000 someone who may be wrote this:- Is a fourth rail really necessary out that way, however? I always understood that they were really needed only for the tub sections of the tube, to help power flow into the motors. I heard this on the Island Line, where 38 stock operates only with a 3rd rail. It operates there after being modified to allow the traction supply to travel via the running rails. Heavy electric currents through bearings is not a good combination, hence the modification. There was IMU some trouble of that nature when c.501s were converted from 4-rail to 3-rail in the early 1970s. |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
On Nov 25, 11:58 pm, Charles Ellson
wrote: Was the locomotive able to run on a 750V system? ITYF that Sarah Siddons is electrically a bit more basic than a modern locomotive and the necessary mods were mostly concerned with the voltage rating of cable insulation I think I have read before (in uk.railway) that all LU stock is being or has been rewired whenever rewiring is needed to accept 750 V DC simply as thats the standard and its cost no difference to lover vales. anyone mentioning what was done about the motors, if anything. AFAIK it has bog standard MV339s. Now older 4Sub had MV339 and they were not allowed - I think - west of Pirbright Junction because of the BOMO line nominal higher voltage (which certainly has been explained in detail by Richard Catlow) . EE507 4Sub - which was really all the ones that survived into the 1970s were (again I think, I am not certan) OK. Not that 4sub had much occasion to run west of Pirbright anyway apart from possible access to Eastleigh works. -- Nick |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
On Nov 25, 10:47 pm, MIG wrote:
On Nov 25, 5:19 pm, D7666 wrote: If one goes down the road of censorship i.e. by attempting to prevent I would never consider it to be "censorship" if someone suggests that I should be more accurate. I did say ''down the road to'' meaning we had not actually got there yet ... -- Nick |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:43:14 -0800 (PST), D7666
wrote: On Nov 25, 6:23 pm, Andy wrote: Has the separate ticket seller disappeared now? The guard only seemed to sell tickets at weekends. Well if there was a 3rd crew member they stayed well hidden in one of the cabs. But I doubt in the 21st century any TOC would three man an operation like Watford Snorbens. I suspect they would if the cost of his "revenue protection" was covered by the receipts which would otherwise be lost by e.g. non-collection of fares from passengers completing their journeys before the train reached Watford in the rush hours. |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
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Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
On Nov 25, 7:11 pm, David Hansen
wrote: about the Gestapo and it is right to point out that some comparisons are very wide of the mark. I have zero tolerance for some comparisons. Thats your problem then. No one else cares. B2003 |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
On Nov 25, 9:40 pm, wrote:
Just let it be said you are, not for the first time, spouting ignorant ********. If you haven't yet been confronted with the sheer industrialisation of killing by the Nazis then perhaps it's time you were. Imbecile. Read this and get a sense of perspective. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history People who constantly bang on about the nazis being some sort of unusual aberation generally know bugger all about history. Genocide and victimisation of a particular ethnic group has been happening for as long as someone has been able to wield a stick. Get over yourself. B2003 |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 01:53:33 -0800 (PST) someone who may be Boltar
wrote this:- Thats your problem then. No one else cares. Yawn. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
On Nov 26, 10:21 am, David Hansen
wrote: On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 01:53:33 -0800 (PST) someone who may be Boltar wrote this:- Thats your problem then. No one else cares. Yawn. That was my reaction to your post too. Funny that eh? B2003 |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
In article
, (Boltar) wrote: On Nov 25, 9:40 pm, wrote: Just let it be said you are, not for the first time, spouting ignorant ********. If you haven't yet been confronted with the sheer industrialisation of killing by the Nazis then perhaps it's time you were. Imbecile. Read this and get a sense of perspective. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history People who constantly bang on about the nazis being some sort of unusual aberation generally know bugger all about history. Genocide and victimisation of a particular ethnic group has been happening for as long as someone has been able to wield a stick. Get over yourself. You just don't understand the difference. It's time you did. Plonk. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
On Nov 26, 1:47 pm, wrote:
People who constantly bang on about the nazis being some sort of unusual aberation generally know bugger all about history. Genocide and victimisation of a particular ethnic group has been happening for as long as someone has been able to wield a stick. Get over yourself. You just don't understand the difference. It's time you did. Plonk. Obviously you didn't bother to read that page and are just resorting to standard issue knee jerk responses. Of course putting me in your kill file nicely obviates the need for you to argue your case, which means your probably can't. Though if someone can explain what the difference is between this and anything the nazis did with a certain other ethnic group (who do sometimes seem to give the impression they were the only ones who have been ethnically cleansed in the whole of history , never mind WW2) I'd be interested in hearing it: "The Armenian Genocide was conceived and carried out by the Ottoman Empire from 1915 to 1923, resulting in the deportation of nearly 2,000,000 Armenians, of whom 1,500,000 men, women, and children were killed, 500,000 survivors were expelled from their homes, and which succeeded in the elimination of the over 2,500-year presence of Armenians in their historic homeland" or perhaps this: "During the Congo Civil War, Pygmies were hunted down and eaten by both sides of the war, who regarded them as subhuman.[198] Sinafasi Makelo, a representative of Mbuti pygmies, has asked the UN Security Council to recognize cannibalism as a crime against humanity and an act of genocide.[199] According to a report by Minority Rights Group International there is evidence of mass killings, cannibalism and rape. " or this "From the 1490s when Christopher Columbus set foot on the Americas to the massacre of Sioux at Wounded Knee by the United States militia, the indigenous population of the Western Hemisphere may have declined by as many as 100 million." etc etc B2003 |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
In article
, (Boltar) wrote: On Nov 26, 1:47 pm, wrote: People who constantly bang on about the nazis being some sort of unusual aberation generally know bugger all about history. Genocide and victimisation of a particular ethnic group has been happening for as long as someone has been able to wield a stick. Get over yourself. You just don't understand the difference. It's time you did. Plonk. Obviously you didn't bother to read that page and are just resorting to standard issue knee jerk responses. Of course putting me in your kill file nicely obviates the need for you to argue your case, which means your probably can't. Wrong assumption again. You are being particularly blind to the facts, even for you. The site also distinguishes the cases you cite, e.g. that most American Indians probably died from disease, admittedly imported by Europeans. And the numbers vary wildly. Though if someone can explain what the difference is between this and anything the nazis did with a certain other ethnic group (who do sometimes seem to give the impression they were the only ones who have been ethnically cleansed in the whole of history , never mind WW2) I'd be interested in hearing it: "The Armenian Genocide was conceived and carried out by the Ottoman Empire from 1915 to 1923, resulting in the deportation of nearly 2,000,000 Armenians, of whom 1,500,000 men, women, and children were killed, 500,000 survivors were expelled from their homes, and which succeeded in the elimination of the over 2,500-year presence of Armenians in their historic homeland" or perhaps this: "During the Congo Civil War, Pygmies were hunted down and eaten by both sides of the war, who regarded them as subhuman.[198] Sinafasi Makelo, a representative of Mbuti pygmies, has asked the UN Security Council to recognize cannibalism as a crime against humanity and an act of genocide.[199] According to a report by Minority Rights Group International there is evidence of mass killings, cannibalism and rape. " or this "From the 1490s when Christopher Columbus set foot on the Americas to the massacre of Sioux at Wounded Knee by the United States militia, the indigenous population of the Western Hemisphere may have declined by as many as 100 million." I suggest you visit http://www.bundesarchiv.de/gedenkbuch/directory.html and see some of the sheer industrialisation of the extermination process. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
On Nov 26, 3:08 pm, wrote:
Wrong assumption again. You are being particularly blind to the facts, I suggest you visithttp://www.bundesarchiv.de/gedenkbuch/directory.html and see some of the sheer industrialisation of the extermination process. So what makes killing in a cellar with gas so much worse than being shot and left to die in some bosnian forest or cambodian field under a pile of corpses? You think all the other genocides that have happened in the world were all done on the spur of the moment and stopped at few truck loads of peasents? You think Pol Pot didn't have a master plan? You think Saddam gassed the kurds by mistake? Yes , 6 million jews died an appalling death. But so have many others all over the world in just as appalling conditions with the same amount of hate from the perpertraitors. B2003 |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
Boltar wrote:
On Nov 26, 3:08 pm, wrote: Wrong assumption again. You are being particularly blind to the facts, I suggest you visithttp://www.bundesarchiv.de/gedenkbuch/directory.html and see some of the sheer industrialisation of the extermination process. So what makes killing in a cellar with gas so much worse than being shot and left to die in some bosnian forest or cambodian field under a pile of corpses? You think all the other genocides that have happened in the world were all done on the spur of the moment and stopped at few truck loads of peasents? You think Pol Pot didn't have a master plan? You think Saddam gassed the kurds by mistake? Yes , 6 million jews died an appalling death. But so have many others all over the world in just as appalling conditions with the same amount of hate from the perpertraitors. "perpertrators". John the spelling Nazi |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
John Rowland wrote:
Boltar wrote: On Nov 26, 3:08 pm, wrote: Wrong assumption again. You are being particularly blind to the facts, I suggest you visithttp://www.bundesarchiv.de/gedenkbuch/directory.html and see some of the sheer industrialisation of the extermination process. So what makes killing in a cellar with gas so much worse than being shot and left to die in some bosnian forest or cambodian field under a pile of corpses? You think all the other genocides that have happened in the world were all done on the spur of the moment and stopped at few truck loads of peasents? You think Pol Pot didn't have a master plan? You think Saddam gassed the kurds by mistake? Yes , 6 million jews died an appalling death. But so have many others all over the world in just as appalling conditions with the same amount of hate from the perpertraitors. "perpertrators". John the spelling Nazi Aw crap. |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
On Nov 26, 6:52 pm, wrote:
Was the locomotive able to run on a 750V system? Yes it went to Portsmouth and Folkestone at least hence on her tours on the Southern she operated coupled to some older Southern Units which provided the air for braking . Not always. I think it was only open day shuttles where it worked like that - I'd possibly go as far so say there were more tours in LH form than with other EMU. The tours I cited used SR Mk.1 AB stock - well at least the Portsmouth one did as I was one it, and here a pic http://wobblewinterwanderings.fotopi...p51955561.html -- Nick |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
On Nov 24, 11:11*pm, D7666 wrote:
On Nov 24, 10:50 pm, (Neil Williams) wrote DOO mirrors are certainly fitted at all the stations on that route. Watford / Snorbens has got mirrors but the 321 is crewed. I'm probably wrong but I thought mirrors are an aid to driver to see guard but DOO needs CCTV ? The WAGN services through New Barnet and Oakleigh Park down to Moorgate and Kings Cross used to have CCTV, but it was removed and replaced with mirrors. I don't know what the significance of that was. ian |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
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Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
On Nov 28, 5:23*am, Charles Ellson wrote:
IMU despite the efforts of vandals the mirrors were more "reliable". In that case do take a run along Watford Snorbens. Snorbens Abbey mirror is completely wrecked, and has been so for a very long time, and one of the others is almost as bad, forget which one. -- Nick |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
"Charles Ellson" wrote in message
... On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 20:32:20 -0000, wrote: Is a fourth rail really necessary out that way, however? It is if you want the same train to work both there and on the Underground. Was the 38 stock on Island Line modified to work only on third rail? What did that require, if that was the case? I always understood that they were really needed only for the tub sections of the tube, to help power flow into the motors. No the LU 4-rail power supply is intended to keep the traction current within the two conductor rails and not find its way back via other bits of metal with consequent damage. In case of flooding, perhaps? I heard this on the Island Line, where 38 stock operates only with a 3rd rail. No tube tunnels or aforementioned metalwork to worry about. Then what is the problem with Bakerloo line trains continuing further north, assuming that they don't require any modifications? |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
"Neil Williams" wrote in message
... On 25 Nov, 14:05, "Richard J." wrote: Might it be easier to fit CCTV to the train rather than the platform? I think some of the Electrostars have this facility? Southern trains have this. |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 14:06:54 -0000, wrote:
"Charles Ellson" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 20:32:20 -0000, wrote: Is a fourth rail really necessary out that way, however? It is if you want the same train to work both there and on the Underground. Was the 38 stock on Island Line modified to work only on third rail? What did that require, if that was the case? I always understood that they were really needed only for the tub sections of the tube, to help power flow into the motors. No the LU 4-rail power supply is intended to keep the traction current within the two conductor rails and not find its way back via other bits of metal with consequent damage. In case of flooding, perhaps? No. Current leaking to ground and causing electrolytic corrosion. Remember, there were already pipes etc under London before the tubes were built, and the tubes were lined with cast iron segments.. Tram and streetcar track had the running rails at minus 10 volts so that stray current leaked from ground to the rails instead of vice versa. LU's centre rail is I believe at minus 200 volts. This is a major problem for the elevated sections of the New York Subway, which is 600v 3-rail running on continuous girder bridge. I saw some TV footage of the electrolyic corrosion damage recently. I heard this on the Island Line, where 38 stock operates only with a 3rd rail. No tube tunnels or aforementioned metalwork to worry about. Then what is the problem with Bakerloo line trains continuing further north, assuming that they don't require any modifications? They would need them - and would probably be prohibited from the underground section. |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
On Nov 29, 2:52*pm, Christopher A. Lee wrote:
On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 14:06:54 -0000, wrote: "Charles Ellson" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 20:32:20 -0000, wrote: Is a fourth rail really necessary out that way, however? It is if you want the same train to work both there and on the Underground. Was the 38 stock on Island Line modified to work only on third rail? What did that require, if that was the case? I always understood that they were really needed only for the tub sections of the tube, to help power flow into the motors. No the LU 4-rail power supply is intended to keep the traction current within the two conductor rails and not find its way back via other bits of metal with consequent damage. In case of flooding, perhaps? No. Current leaking to ground and causing electrolytic corrosion. Remember, there were already pipes etc under London before the tubes were built, and the tubes were lined with cast iron segments.. Tram and streetcar track had the running rails at minus 10 volts so that stray current leaked from ground to the rails instead of vice versa. LU's centre rail is I believe at minus 200 volts. That's interesting, because I was under the impression that there was no danger from the middle track, but 200 V could presumably give a whack if there was any current. |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
In message , Christopher A.
Lee writes No. Current leaking to ground and causing electrolytic corrosion. Remember, there were already pipes etc under London before the tubes were built, and the tubes were lined with cast iron segments.. Tram and streetcar track had the running rails at minus 10 volts so that stray current leaked from ground to the rails instead of vice versa. LU's centre rail is I believe at minus 200 volts. Traction current is fed at +420v (positive) on the outside rails and -210v on the centre rail (negative) the sum of these giving a traction feed of 630v dc. They are 'loosely' tied to earth through resistances in the sub stations that feed the supply. Despite being an electrician in a previous life and now a driver, I struggle to get my head round 'loosely tied to earth' and what it means in real life. I recollect an incident a few years ago when the traction current had been discharged (turned off) due to person under a train. For complicated reasons, the centre rail had become live at +420v. The paramedic who was working under the train and touched that rail and earth looked extremely pale afterwards. It was described to me like having your hand hit by a sledgehammer. -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 09:26:38 -0800 (PST), MIG
wrote: On Nov 29, 2:52*pm, Christopher A. Lee wrote: On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 14:06:54 -0000, wrote: "Charles Ellson" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 20:32:20 -0000, wrote: Is a fourth rail really necessary out that way, however? It is if you want the same train to work both there and on the Underground. Was the 38 stock on Island Line modified to work only on third rail? What did that require, if that was the case? I always understood that they were really needed only for the tub sections of the tube, to help power flow into the motors. No the LU 4-rail power supply is intended to keep the traction current within the two conductor rails and not find its way back via other bits of metal with consequent damage. In case of flooding, perhaps? No. Current leaking to ground and causing electrolytic corrosion. Remember, there were already pipes etc under London before the tubes were built, and the tubes were lined with cast iron segments.. Tram and streetcar track had the running rails at minus 10 volts so that stray current leaked from ground to the rails instead of vice versa. LU's centre rail is I believe at minus 200 volts. That's interesting, because I was under the impression that there was no danger from the middle track, but 200 V could presumably give a whack if there was any current. There isn't much current if there's nothing in section. You used to see track workers hopping on and off the centre rail and walking along it. |
Bakerloo Line beyond Harrow & Wealdstone
"MIG" wrote in message
... : That's interesting, because I was under the impression that there was : no danger from the middle track, but 200 V could presumably give a : whack if there was any current. Doesn't the live rai change back and forth between third and fourth position? I remember hearing that the live rail is always in the third position when in a station, because there is less of a risk of somebody getting fried, should they fall onto the tracks. But the positive can be in fourth position just before and after the station. |
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