Buses waiting time and blocking the road
 

"Clive" wrote in message
...
In message , Depresion
writes
it makes life easier for the few people who drive buses and screws
up traffic for far more people.
Correct, in the little town where I live, on a main road is a bus stop and
right opposite it is an island in the middle of the road so that when the
bus stops all traffic behind is held up, not even a cyclist could get
through.
--
The object is to stop traffic overtaking a stationary bus in the sort of
area where people leaving the bus might cross the road. Stops them being
flattened, also allows the bus to move off again quickly. It is actually
quicker for ALL the traffic if numpties do not try and overtake a bus as it
moves off. (For the hard-of-thinking, if a bus remains stationary with its
righthand indicator going, waiting to move off, overtaking cars will
overtake more slowly as the road width is restricted by the presence of the
bus, traffic coming the other way will also have to slow down - or even
stop! - whereas, if the following traffic waits while the bus unloads and
then moves off WITH the bus, the overall delay is shorter, except for the
handful of cars that would otherwise manage to squeeze by. THEY are the ones
that slow everything down.)

Such an arrangement should NOT be at a timing point or a point where large
numbers of people are likely to board or alight from the bus. The bus dwell
time should be kept to a minimum.

Buses waiting time and blocking the road
 

Ian wrote:

"Clive" wrote:
Depresion writes:

it makes life easier for the few people who drive buses and screws
up traffic for far more people.

Correct, in the little town where I live, on a main road is a bus stop
and right opposite it is an island in the middle of the road so that when the
bus stops all traffic behind is held up, not even a cyclist could get through.

The object is to stop traffic overtaking a stationary bus in the sort of
area where people leaving the bus might cross the road. Stops them being
flattened, also allows the bus to move off again quickly. It is actually
quicker for ALL the traffic if numpties do not try and overtake a bus as it
moves off. (For the hard-of-thinking, if a bus remains stationary with its
righthand indicator going, waiting to move off, overtaking cars will overtake
more slowly as the road width is restricted by the presence of the bus,
traffic coming the other way will also have to slow down - or even stop! -
whereas, if the following traffic waits while the bus unloads and then moves
off WITH the bus, the overall delay is shorter, except for the handful of
cars that would otherwise manage to squeeze by. THEY are the ones that slow
everything down.)
Such an arrangement should NOT be at a timing point or a point where
large numbers of people are likely to board or alight from the bus. The bus
dwell time should be kept to a minimum.

You love that word "should", don't you?

Here's a word: "Why"?

Or put another way: "Says who?".

Buses waiting time and blocking the road
 

In message , David Hansen
writes
I'll add the words I typed back in, the words after,
"everyone". "but particularly those with mobility problems."
The connection between mobility problems and stopping all traffic is?
Considering that the traffic island to which I referred is not a
crossing, why have the council decided to put it against an already
existing bus stop?
--
Clive

Buses waiting time and blocking the road
 

In message , David Hansen
writes
Los Angeles is a good example.

The second way works in the long term. Transfer some of the trips to
walking, cycling and public transport. One of the ways to do this is
to make buses more attractive. One of the ways of making buses more
attractive is by filling in laybys and installing better stops and
bus boarders in the space the layby used to take up. Not only does
it work but it is better for everyone, despite the whining of a
small but vocal minority.
Wake up, that idiot in the back. I have spent several weeks in both
New York and Los Angeles, both cities function perfectly well without
"real" public transport, thankfully only to the car. It is only the
rush hours that cause problems.
--
Clive

Buses waiting time and blocking the road
 

In message , David Hansen
writes
However, given that motorists cause most of the delays to motorised
traffic (a term which, for the avoidance of doubt, includes buses)
by the sheer volume of motorists there are things which can be done.
One of these things is to encourage motorists out of their little
metal prisons by making alternatives more attractive. Another thing
is to relocate the congestion to places where it is easier for
public transport vehicles to have priority (and thus encourage
further modal shift). Bus lanes and virtual bus lanes are examples
of this approach. One place where this has been done is the A90 from
the Forth Road Bridge into Edinburgh. As I recall the results, as
well as speeding up priority vehicles by something like 20 minutes
it also speeded up motorists by a minute or two.
You are either a fruit cake or a cyclist, hang on, you could be both.
--
Clive

Buses waiting time and blocking the road
 

On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 00:14:03 +0000, Clive put finger to keyboard and
typed:

In message , David Hansen
writes
Los Angeles is a good example.

The second way works in the long term. Transfer some of the trips to
walking, cycling and public transport. One of the ways to do this is
to make buses more attractive. One of the ways of making buses more
attractive is by filling in laybys and installing better stops and
bus boarders in the space the layby used to take up. Not only does
it work but it is better for everyone, despite the whining of a
small but vocal minority.

Wake up, that idiot in the back. I have spent several weeks in both
New York and Los Angeles, both cities function perfectly well without
"real" public transport, thankfully only to the car. It is only the
rush hours that cause problems.

New York has a very good public transport system; one of the few US
cities that does. It's the only US city that I've visited where I
didn't need a car to get around.

Mark
--
"There must be a place, under the sun, where hearts of olden
glory grow young"
http://mark.goodge.co.uk - my pointless blog
http://www.good-stuff.co.uk - my less pointless stuff

Buses waiting time and blocking the road
 

Clive wrote:
In message , Depresion
writes
it makes life easier for the few people who drive buses and screws
up traffic for far more people.
Correct, in the little town where I live, on a main road is a bus stop
and right opposite it is an island in the middle of the road so that
when the bus stops all traffic behind is held up, not even a cyclist
could get through.

For a while, there was a built-out bus stop he
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl...k&z=19&iwloc=A
which traffic planners might have thought was a ideal place in terms of
helping bus drivers, passengers and pedestrians, particularly those with
mobility problems. They took it out again, because it didn't work.

Buses waiting time and blocking the road
 

Clive wrote:

[About Hansen]

You are either a fruit cake or a cyclist, hang on, you could be both.

bing Hansen is both, he also considers himself to be an authority on
environmental issues. So now you know what sort of fruitcakes Friends of
the Earth are.

Buses waiting time and blocking the road
 

On Dec 6, 10:43*am, (Steve Firth) wrote:
Clive wrote:

[About Hansen]

You are either a fruit cake or a cyclist, hang on, you could be both.

bing Hansen is both, he also considers himself to be an authority on
environmental issues. So now you know what sort of fruitcakes Friends of
the Earth are.

Hansen posts as if he is an expert on everything, but then goes on to
deny that he is an expert.

When his errors are pointed out to him, he replies with something
along the line of "ah insults"

Francis

Buses waiting time and blocking the road
 

Steve Firth wrote:
Clive wrote:

[About Hansen]

You are either a fruit cake or a cyclist, hang on, you could be both.

bing Hansen is both, he also considers himself to be an authority on
environmental issues. So now you know what sort of fruitcakes Friends of
the Earth are.

And nuts as well...

"Everyone's a fruit and nutcase..."

--
Moving things in still pictures!

Buses waiting time and blocking the road
 

francis wrote:
On Dec 6, 10:43 am, (Steve Firth) wrote:
Clive wrote:

[About Hansen]

You are either a fruit cake or a cyclist, hang on, you could be both.
bing Hansen is both, he also considers himself to be an authority on
environmental issues. So now you know what sort of fruitcakes Friends of
the Earth are.

Hansen posts as if he is an expert on everything, but then goes on to
deny that he is an expert.

When his errors are pointed out to him, he replies with something
along the line of "ah insults"

Francis

Well, an expert *is* a person who knows more and more about less and less!

--
Moving things in still pictures!

Buses waiting time and blocking the road
 

Paul Weaver wrote:
On 4 Dec, 21:07, Peter Heather wrote:
On Dec 4, 3:11 pm, David Hansen
wrote: On Thu, 4 Dec 2008 06:50:32 -0800 (PST) someone who may be
wrote this:-
I dont know if it is related to the economic situation but recently I
have found that a lot more buses are waiting time at bus stops. Is
this strictly speaking legal.
Yes.
Actually, the answer could well be NO. It depends on the wording in
the traffic order, assuming that there is an order in force and that
there are yellow or red lines on the road at that point. Some, but not
all, traffic orders state that a bus can stop to pick up or set down
passengers at a stop, but there could well be no provision to wait at
that point beyond doing so. Also, if there is no reference to a bus
stop in the order, then a bus has no more right than any other vehicle
to wait on a restricted stretch of road. I've known over-enthusiastic
parking attendants in at least one nameless Inner London borough to
ticket buses while they stood at a stop with no passengers in sight.

Almost every day I see at least one bus "broken down" at a bus stop,
doors closed, driver reading the paper, hazards flashing away.

Buses must be very unreliable

They probably don't get the maintenance they used to or need. As I've
said, one Stagecoach bus not too far away from here got into the paper
not too long ago since it set on fire and all the passengers had to make
a very quick exit.

--
John Wright

I used to drive a car a lot also. Duhg Bollen.

It didn't happen. The whole thing was fabricated in a movie studio by
Jewish film directors using realistic dummies to gain international
sympathy and thus grab and retain a chunk of Arab territory and
accumulate weapons of mass destruction with help from a complicit US.
Duhg Bollens view of the Holocaust.

Duhg Bollen promised a report on how Vince can reduce his carbon
emissions by moving in November 2007. We're still waiting.

Buses waiting time and blocking the road
 

Depresion wrote:
"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 04 Dec 2008 20:37:40 +0000 someone who may be ®i©ardo
wrote this:-

Some cities have even deliberately filled in bus lay-bys
Correct.

just to make congestion worse,
Incorrect.

There are a number of reasons for exterminating bus laybys, from
widening a former narrow part of the pavement, through allowing the
driver to pull away as soon as everyone is off/on to making sure bus
and bus boarder align in order to make life easier for everyone

Incorrect, it makes life easier for the few people who drive buses and screws
up traffic for far more people.

Absolutely. I can think of one bus stop between RAF Halton and Wendover
which is absolutely adjacent to a traffic island. If a bus stops there,
any other traffic has to wait till it moves. If that's not causing
congestion I don't know what is.

--
John Wright

I used to drive a car a lot also. Duhg Bollen.

It didn't happen. The whole thing was fabricated in a movie studio by
Jewish film directors using realistic dummies to gain international
sympathy and thus grab and retain a chunk of Arab territory and
accumulate weapons of mass destruction with help from a complicit US.
Duhg Bollens view of the Holocaust.

Duhg Bollen promised a report on how Vince can reduce his carbon
emissions by moving in November 2007. We're still waiting.

Buses waiting time and blocking the road
 

John Wright wrote:

Absolutely. I can think of one bus stop between RAF Halton and
Wendover which is absolutely adjacent to a traffic island. If a bus
stops there, any other traffic has to wait till it moves. If that's
not causing congestion I don't know what is.

I think all of the bus stops in Claremont Rd NW2 are like this. There are no
real opportunities between stops to overtake a moving bus either.

Buses waiting time and blocking the road
 

David Hansen wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 09:29:15 -0000 someone who may be "Depresion"
127.0.0.1 wrote this:-

Bus companies don't have the right to build laybys wherever they need a
stop and on many routes there wouldn't be any place to put them , or
alternative locations to use
Then they don't get to stop and traffic can flow again. Good solution.

(Motor) traffic is stopped by many things. The greatest cause of
delays to traffic is motorists in cars. There are so many of them
that they clog roads in towns. After that delays are caused by
things like road junctions, though these are really a manifestation
of too many motorists.

There are two ways to solve congestion. The first way to do this
only works for a while, knock everything down and expand into the
countryside. Where this has been tried it has only worked for a
while before congestion rose again. Los Angeles is a good example.

The second way works in the long term. Transfer some of the trips to
walking, cycling and public transport. One of the ways to do this is
to make buses more attractive. One of the ways of making buses more
attractive is by filling in laybys and installing better stops and
bus boarders in the space the layby used to take up. Not only does
it work but it is better for everyone, despite the whining of a
small but vocal minority.

Buses are subject to traffic in all the ways other traffic is. If
traffic is delayed, so are buses. If you delay cars, you delay buses also.

I still think the worst delays to buses is the insane idea of one person
buses. It may cut costs but it slows the whole job down unless you have
an Oyster card or pre-pay system or similar. (They're not found in too
many parts of the country to date.)


--
John Wright

I used to drive a car a lot also. Duhg Bollen.

It didn't happen. The whole thing was fabricated in a movie studio by
Jewish film directors using realistic dummies to gain international
sympathy and thus grab and retain a chunk of Arab territory and
accumulate weapons of mass destruction with help from a complicit US.
Duhg Bollens view of the Holocaust.

Duhg Bollen promised a report on how Vince can reduce his carbon
emissions by moving in November 2007. We're still waiting.

Buses waiting time and blocking the road
 

Paul Weaver wrote:
Buses must be very unreliable

Not quite.
It's the bureaucratic rules.

If the door alarm won#'t shut up, if the ramp won't work, if anything isn't
'perfect', then the bus has to go out of service.

And if it's a major problem, it's more visible, as it sits for hours waiting
for the company's contract tow truck - gone are the days when the nearest
garage could retrieve a broken bus.

Just one of the prices we have to pay for a privatised service.
--

Andrew

Interviewer: Tonight I'm interviewing that famous nurse, Florence
Nightingale
Tommy Cooper (dressed as a nurse): Sir Florence Nightingale
Interviewer: *Sir* Florence Nightingale?
Tommy Cooper: I'm a Night Nurse

Campaign For The Real Tommy Cooper

Buses waiting time and blocking the road
 

"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
John Wright wrote:

Absolutely. I can think of one bus stop between RAF Halton and
Wendover which is absolutely adjacent to a traffic island. If a bus
stops there, any other traffic has to wait till it moves. If that's
not causing congestion I don't know what is.

I think all of the bus stops in Claremont Rd NW2 are like this. There are
no real opportunities between stops to overtake a moving bus either.
Not a problem. Cars proceed along the road at the same rate as the bus.

Buses waiting time and blocking the road
 

"Ian" typed



"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
John Wright wrote:

Absolutely. I can think of one bus stop between RAF Halton and
Wendover which is absolutely adjacent to a traffic island. If a bus
stops there, any other traffic has to wait till it moves. If that's
not causing congestion I don't know what is.

I think all of the bus stops in Claremont Rd NW2 are like this. There are
no real opportunities between stops to overtake a moving bus either.
Not a problem. Cars proceed along the road at the same rate as the bus.



Indeed. I don't think it's wide enough for a car to overtake a bus
(safely) anyway.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

Buses waiting time and blocking the road
 

"Andrew Heenan" typed


Paul Weaver wrote:
Buses must be very unreliable

Not quite.
It's the bureaucratic rules.

If the door alarm won#'t shut up, if the ramp won't work, if anything isn't
'perfect', then the bus has to go out of service.

Don't kid yourself. The ramps don't work in almost half the buses I try
to use and they're never taken out of service for that reason IME.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

Buses waiting time and blocking the road
 

"Ian" wrote in message
...

"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
John Wright wrote:

Absolutely. I can think of one bus stop between RAF Halton and
Wendover which is absolutely adjacent to a traffic island. If a bus
stops there, any other traffic has to wait till it moves. If that's
not causing congestion I don't know what is.

I think all of the bus stops in Claremont Rd NW2 are like this. There are
no real opportunities between stops to overtake a moving bus either.
Not a problem. Cars proceed along the road at the same rate as the bus.

Yes it is a problem. If the bus stops were positioned properly in laybys
then cars would be able to proceed at the speed limit and would not *need*
to proceed at the slower speed of the bus (ie eventually reaching the speed
limit and then stopping for a long tiem while the driver takes passengers'
money).