On Dec 8, 3:23*pm, John B wrote:
On Dec 8, 11:45*am, Mike Bristow wrote:

How about a panel next to the main display which reads along the lines
of *"Next train for quickest arrival at Paddington is: xx.xx plat y"
This would need to be larger than the normal display to ensure
passengers see it first, and perhaps with a footnote that other
earlier trains run but will arrive after the recommended train.

This could work really well at stations where there is one, main,
destination (eg: *at Woking, you'd pick Waterloo; at Reading, you'd
pick Paddington; and at Stratford, Liverpool Street).

Indeed, they already have these at both Waterloo and Reading.

But at a terminus, it's not so good: *There are a large number of
destinations, and finding the right one can be a pain. * *I really
dislike Manchester Picadilly station because they take this approach;
there's such a vast amount of information it can be a pain to find
the needle you want.

Agreed that the board at Picc is annoying - but the board at London
Bridge works well, despite the enormous number of destinations. The
main difference is that the London Bridge one is a single, static
rectangle, rather than a permanently scrolling triangle.

Is the London Bridge one based on first departure time or first
arrival time?

There is something similar at Lewisham where it just repeats whatever
is on the platform indicator for the next scheduled departure,
regardless of whether there is something else coming first (ie it will
show the time of the one half an hour late rather than the one on time
due five minutes after it). It also shows "Next train to ... Charing
Cross ... cancelled" rather than the time of the next non-cancelled
one.

(Slightly related problem is screens in the concourse just repeating
"stand back ... not for public use" for several minutes, instead of
guiding people to their platform.)

On this ... a strange thing at Greenwich recently.

1st 1020 Cannon Street expected 1022

2nd 1010 Charing Cross cancelled

Can't work out what happened there.

On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 05:42:48 -0800 (PST), MIG
wrote:


"Fast" is relative. Down my way I've heard the "fast" used to mean
"not calling at Deptford".

On the Southern, "fast" and "not calling at" were interchangeable -
"This train is fast from New Cross to Lewisham"
"This train does not call at St. Johns"

Both used indiscriminately.

--
Bill Hayles

http://billnot.com

Thank you, everybody, for your replies.

I am most intrigued by the idea that the fare on the fast train is
identical to that on the slow train, i.e. that I need only buy a
return from West Drayton (the westmost station the Freedom Pass
allows) to Reading, and that this covers the fast train, even though
the latter does not stop at West Drayton.

Does this always apply? Should, therefore, my fare to Edinburgh be
slightly cheaper because my Freedom Pass covers the stretch from
King's Cross to Finsbury Park, even though the train does not stop at
Finsbury Park?

Looking at the fares on http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk, the journey
planner allows one to add one's Senior Railcard, but not (even for the
Reading journey) one's Freedom Pass. Indeed, it states that the
number of passes added for the fare calculation must not exceed the
number of passengers -- in this case, one. This would seem to
preclude the simultaneous use of a Freedom Pass and a Senior Railcard,
which does not sound logical.

By the way, the slow train to and from Reading was by no means as bad
as painted by some of the replies, and gets there in about an hour.
Sometimes speed is important; sometimes not.





On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 01:32:39 +0000, pedan3 wrote:

Took the slow train from Paddington to Reading and back today (thus
saving money by using Freedom Pass to maximum extent).

On the way back, the train information display in the main hall at
Reading showed the train terminating at Ealing Broadway, as did the
dot matrix indicators on the platforms.

On a different display screen, which I almost missed, was the
information that all such trains are shown as terminating at Ealing
Broadway, but "of course" (in the words of the second display panel)
they run to Paddington.

Couldn't they have said that in the first place? If I hadn't seen the
second display panel, I'd have got out at Ealing and taken the tube.
Is there a reason for any of this?

Just curious.

On Dec 9, 3:23*am, pedan3 wrote:
Thank you, everybody, for your replies.

I am most intrigued by the idea that the fare on the fast train is
identical to that on the slow train, i.e. that I need only buy a
return from West Drayton (the westmost station the Freedom Pass
allows) to Reading, and that this covers the fast train, even though
the latter does not stop at West Drayton.

This isn't quite right, as a freedom pass doesn't count as a "season
ticket" for the rules on combining tickets. The relevant wording is:

[you can combine tickets on non-stop trains when:]

(c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does
not include Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a
passenger transport executive or local authority)

It's also possible in London to buy fares from zone boundaries, which
don't require the train to stop irrespective of the type of zonal
ticket you hold - but you need to do so explicitly, buying a return
from Boundary Zone 6 to Reading, not a return from West Drayton. These
are only sold in ticket offices and on trains, not online.

Does this always apply? *Should, therefore, my fare to Edinburgh be
slightly cheaper because my Freedom Pass covers the stretch from
King's Cross to Finsbury Park, even though the train does not stop at
Finsbury Park?

In theory, yes. In practice, the fare for London to Edinburgh type
journeys is usually the same as Finsbury Park to Haymarket type
journeys.

Looking at the fares onhttp://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk, the journey
planner allows one to add one's Senior Railcard, but not (even for the
Reading journey) one's Freedom Pass. *Indeed, it states that the
number of passes added for the fare calculation must not exceed the
number of passengers -- in this case, one. *This would seem to
preclude the simultaneous use of a Freedom Pass and a Senior Railcard,
which does not sound logical.

Indeed - the online planners don't understand ticket combinations or
boundary tickets.

By the way, the slow train to and from Reading was by no means as bad
as painted by some of the replies, and gets there in about an hour.
Sometimes speed is important; sometimes not.

More chance of a seat on-peak, too.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 03:23:13 +0000, pedan3 wrote:

I am most intrigued by the idea that the fare on the fast train is
identical to that on the slow train, i.e. that I need only buy a
return from West Drayton (the westmost station the Freedom Pass
allows) to Reading, and that this covers the fast train, even though
the latter does not stop at West Drayton.

I think it was suggested that you get a ticket from "Boundary Zone 6",
which is not quite the same - indeed it ought to be slightly cheaper.

Does this always apply? Should, therefore, my fare to Edinburgh be
slightly cheaper because my Freedom Pass covers the stretch from
King's Cross to Finsbury Park, even though the train does not stop at
Finsbury Park?

If there were a Boundary Zone 6 to Edinburgh fare...

Looking at the fares on http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk, the journey
planner allows one to add one's Senior Railcard, but not (even for the
Reading journey) one's Freedom Pass. Indeed, it states that the
number of passes added for the fare calculation must not exceed the
number of passengers -- in this case, one. This would seem to
preclude the simultaneous use of a Freedom Pass and a Senior Railcard,
which does not sound logical.

As you know, the Freedom pass isn't a railcard, so that note doesn't
apply. You have one railcard, and that's what matters. The Freedom
Pass isn't mentioned, neither are any other ways of having a ticket
already.

You need a fare from a zone boundary (6, in this case), as would
anyone with a Travelcard, so you are not alone. Unfortunately the
on-line sellers have never offered these, but a human at a station
would know immediately what you need.

By the way, the slow train to and from Reading was by no means as bad
as painted by some of the replies, and gets there in about an hour.
Sometimes speed is important; sometimes not.

If you were talking about the Glacier Express, I'd agree!

Richard.

On Mon, 8 Dec 2008 07:41:55 -0800 (PST), MIG
wrote:

On Dec 8, 3:23*pm, John B wrote:
On Dec 8, 11:45*am, Mike Bristow wrote:

How about a panel next to the main display which reads along the lines
of *"Next train for quickest arrival at Paddington is: xx.xx plat y"
This would need to be larger than the normal display to ensure
passengers see it first, and perhaps with a footnote that other
earlier trains run but will arrive after the recommended train.

This could work really well at stations where there is one, main,
destination (eg: *at Woking, you'd pick Waterloo; at Reading, you'd
pick Paddington; and at Stratford, Liverpool Street).

Indeed, they already have these at both Waterloo and Reading.

But at a terminus, it's not so good: *There are a large number of
destinations, and finding the right one can be a pain. * *I really
dislike Manchester Picadilly station because they take this approach;
there's such a vast amount of information it can be a pain to find
the needle you want.

Agreed that the board at Picc is annoying - but the board at London
Bridge works well, despite the enormous number of destinations. The
main difference is that the London Bridge one is a single, static
rectangle, rather than a permanently scrolling triangle.

Is the London Bridge one based on first departure time or first
arrival time?

Not sure, but East Croydon has one based on first arrival time.

On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 10:54:06 -0800 (PST), sweek
wrote:

In the Netherlands there are two simple types of trains, stopping and
intercity ones. The Dutch train indicator displays are quite big and
display all the stops on one big screen. You'll often see a sign that
says: "Stopping train to Utrecht", calling at XXX, YYY, ZZZ, Utrecht).
Intercity will arrive in Utrecht before this train." Or something
along those lines, I haven't been there for a long time I must say.

This is somewhat sporadic. Most Dutch displays are of the Solari
flap-board type, and because of the limited number of fields it is
common that all stations are *not* shown. However, because they
operate a true Taktfahrplan, it's relatively easy to find out that
more or less all ICs serve A, D and F, and that a Stoptrein serves all
of A, B, C, D, E and F.

You do sometimes get helpful hints as well, but IMX not often. And
one thing they're not good at is displaying a decent all-platforms
departure board at platform level to assist in making a connection.

In terms of the German example, I do recall one train from Hamburg
that was shown as Bremen-Osnabrueck, Essen-Duesseldorf, KOELN-KOBLENZ
on a 3 line display, despite the fact that it went to Basel. This is
probably a similar example to the UK ones given.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Dec 9, 9:01*pm, James Farrar wrote:
On Mon, 8 Dec 2008 07:41:55 -0800 (PST), MIG





wrote:
On Dec 8, 3:23*pm, John B wrote:
On Dec 8, 11:45*am, Mike Bristow wrote:

How about a panel next to the main display which reads along the lines
of *"Next train for quickest arrival at Paddington is: xx.xx plat y"
This would need to be larger than the normal display to ensure
passengers see it first, and perhaps with a footnote that other
earlier trains run but will arrive after the recommended train.

This could work really well at stations where there is one, main,
destination (eg: *at Woking, you'd pick Waterloo; at Reading, you'd
pick Paddington; and at Stratford, Liverpool Street).

Indeed, they already have these at both Waterloo and Reading.

But at a terminus, it's not so good: *There are a large number of
destinations, and finding the right one can be a pain. * *I really
dislike Manchester Picadilly station because they take this approach;
there's such a vast amount of information it can be a pain to find
the needle you want.

Agreed that the board at Picc is annoying - but the board at London
Bridge works well, despite the enormous number of destinations. The
main difference is that the London Bridge one is a single, static
rectangle, rather than a permanently scrolling triangle.

Is the London Bridge one based on first departure time or first
arrival time?

Not sure, but East Croydon has one based on first arrival time.- Hide quoted text -

Going inwards that certainly makes sense. As it would at Bromley
South, Orpington etc. I wonder if they have them?

But that's for one or two obvious destinations (Victoria, London
Bridge). It would be very complicated to have the first arrivals at
Dartford, Orpington, Ramsgate, Brighton, Barnham etc, sometimes via
different routes, shown at London Bridge.

On 9 Dec, 23:34, MIG wrote:
But that's for one or two obvious destinations (Victoria, London
Bridge). *It would be very complicated to have the first arrivals at
Dartford, Orpington, Ramsgate, Brighton, Barnham etc, sometimes via
different routes, shown at London Bridge.

And yet it has two of them. One in the interchange concourse above the
platforms, one above the entrance to the subway from by the bus
station down to platforms 1-6. Plus there's a mini one on the main
concourse.

U

On Dec 9, 11:40*pm, Mr Thant
wrote:
On 9 Dec, 23:34, MIG wrote:

But that's for one or two obvious destinations (Victoria, London
Bridge). *It would be very complicated to have the first arrivals at
Dartford, Orpington, Ramsgate, Brighton, Barnham etc, sometimes via
different routes, shown at London Bridge.

And yet it has two of them. One in the interchange concourse above the
platforms, one above the entrance to the subway from by the bus
station down to platforms 1-6. Plus there's a mini one on the main
concourse.

That was my initial question: does it show first arrivals or first
departures? I spose I could go there and work it out.