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Aston-Martin Boris bus
Surprised no-one's posted this story:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7790082.stm (complete with pics) Aston Martin designs Routemaster The Aston Martin-Foster design has solar panels Sports car manufacturer Aston Martin is joint winner of a competition to design a new Routemaster bus for London. The Warwickshire-based firm's winning entry was a team effort with leading architects Foster and Partners. They share the £25,000 first prize with bus, coach and truck design firm Capoco Design, based in Wiltshire. A Transport for London spokesman said the first of the greener and more accessible, hop-on hop-off, double-deckers could be in service by 2011. The original Routemasters were phased out from regular service by the end of 2005 as they were inaccessible to wheelchairs or pushchairs. Tendering process The competition, in which children were also invited to take part, attracted about 700 entries. The winning designs will now be passed on to bus manufacturers, following a competitive tendering process, to develop into a final proposed design. The Aston Martin-Foster bus design envisages a highly-manoeuvrable, zero-emissions vehicle, with solar panels built into a glass roof, full accessibility, warm lighting and wooden floors. The Capoco design combines what the company describes as "the best of the old with the best of the new". The Capoco Design retains the Routemaster-style front engine It has a low flat floor to allow easy access and will be low emission, but will also retain the Routemaster-style front engine and open rear platform. The youngest winners were nine-year-olds Thomas Staricoff, from Brighton, and Olivia Carrier, from north-west London, who received £200 worth of bicycle vouchers for their drawings of what a new bus should look like. London Mayor Boris Johnson said: "We have had a phenomenal response, with ideas submitted from around the globe, and we now have, in our joint winners, two stunning designs that allow us to go forward and produce a truly iconic bus fit for 21st Century London." But Labour's transport spokesperson on the London Assembly, Val Shawcross, said: "The design competition may have been fun and the winning designs are extremely impressive, but this is not a serious way to make policy and not a worthwhile use of public money. "I have yet to hear one convincing argument for why London needs a new double-decker bus and until Boris comes up with some, Londoners will see this as little more than a vanity project." |
Aston-Martin Boris bus
Recliner wrote:
Surprised no-one's posted this story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7790082.stm (complete with pics) Aston Martin designs Routemaster .... "I have yet to hear one convincing argument for why London needs a new double-decker bus and until Boris comes up with some, Londoners will see this as little more than a vanity project." Possibly because it's daft? Of all the pointless things to do, this has to take something of the biscuit. I've talked to the father of one of the winners, who's a bus enthusiast, and a friend of mine's talked to one of the others and neither of them particularly think it's a great way to go about designing a bus, but it doesn't do your profile any harm competing. I am truly scared as to how expensive bus travel's going to be in London in five years time with this kind of profligate idiocy going on. Leather seats, solar panels and a conductor? Tom |
Aston-Martin Boris bus
On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 13:55:57 +0000, Tom Barry
wrote: Leather seats, solar panels and a conductor? Leather seats are becoming increasingly common in buses, particularly those sold as a premium service, because they both "look good" and they are relatively cheap to maintain. (That's why Ryanair uses them - just a quick wipe-down is needed to clean them). But I think overall some of the runners-up seem more sensible. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
Aston-Martin Boris bus
Neil Williams wrote:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 13:55:57 +0000, Tom Barry wrote: Leather seats, solar panels and a conductor? Leather seats are becoming increasingly common in buses, particularly those sold as a premium service, because they both "look good" and they are relatively cheap to maintain. (That's why Ryanair uses them - just a quick wipe-down is needed to clean them). But I think overall some of the runners-up seem more sensible. I hope by runners-up you don't mean Ken! |
Aston-Martin Boris bus
On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 14:36:36 -0000, "John Rowland"
wrote: I hope by runners-up you don't mean Ken! :) Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
Aston-Martin Boris bus
Recliner wrote:
"I have yet to hear one convincing argument for why London needs a new double-decker bus She can come on a Ken-dy Bus journey with me and convince me that that bus is better than what we had before on the route. and until Boris comes up with some, Londoners will see this as little more than a vanity project." No Londoners see this as one of the things they voted for. Again she can come with me on a bus journey in the summer when it's stuck in traffic just 15m from the bus stop with a driver who won't let us out. Then she can tell me that the Routemaster is a bad thing. |
Aston-Martin Boris bus
On 19 Dec, 13:20, "Recliner" wrote: Surprised no-one's posted this story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7790082.stm (complete with pics) Aston Martin designs Routemaster The Aston Martin-Foster design has solar panels Sports car manufacturer Aston Martin is joint winner of a competition to design a new Routemaster bus for London. The Warwickshire-based firm's winning entry was a team effort with leading architects Foster and Partners. They share the £25,000 first prize with bus, coach and truck design firm Capoco Design, based in Wiltshire. A Transport for London spokesman said the first of the greener and more accessible, hop-on hop-off, double-deckers could be in service by 2011. (snip) Two things to note. First off, Capoco Design were the firm that were behind the Autocar story on a new Routemaster back in December 2007 - basically Autocar commissioned them to come up with a paper-prototype for a new bus. I started a thread about it back then: http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....fab9ab4234e16/ An associate editor at Autocar, Hilton Holloway, who was behind this because he wanted "to prove to Bozza that it could – and should – be done" - Boris was of course only the prospective Mayoral candidate at the time. That quote comes from Dave Hill's blog he http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/davehil...oris-transport Now I suppose one can take two views on the apparent willingness of Boris to formulate a policy that is arguably at least partially influenced (though of course of that we cannot be sure) by a magazine article that was produced with him specifically in mind - it could be considered reckless or it could be considered open-minded. There's another possible angle to all this as well of course - perhaps the Autocar article, which got lots of favourable coverage in the mainstream media at the time (and thus helped to associate Boris with notions of a new Routemaster), was concocted by journalists who were sympathetic to Boris, possibly with the loose collaboration of people within Boris' campaign circle, or at least through the wider public school/ Oxbridge old boy network. Autocar is published by the somewhat old school Haymarket Group, a private company founded by the former Conservative MP and Minister Michael Heseltine who is the group's chairman (his son is the deputy chairman) and still holds a large minority stake in the business. I'm sure I read or heard somewhere that Boris was actually a friend or at least quite good acquaintance of someone senior at Autocar magazine (e.g. Chas Hallett, the overall editor, or this associate editor Hilton Holloway), but I cannot find anything to support that at the moment so perhaps that's not right. Anyway my point is merely that there are a bunch of people here whose views are perhaps broadly in confluence with one another, and who may well move in similar circles, who may have acted in ways that were helpful to Boris, whether with or without his blessing. I'm not entirely sure I rate this as a good way of developing important policy. Do note the TfL spokesman's careful qualifier and lack of any firm commitment in this sentence too... "A Transport for London spokesman said the first [...] double-deckers could be in service by 2011." Great word, could. |
Aston-Martin Boris bus
On 19 Dec, 14:16, (Neil Williams)
wrote: Leather seats are becoming increasingly common in buses, particularly those sold as a premium service, because they both "look good" and they are relatively cheap to maintain. *(That's why Ryanair uses them - just a quick wipe-down is needed to clean them). There's at least one type of London bus I've been on that has them. Scanias on the 148 maybe? U |
Aston-Martin Boris bus
On 19 Dec, 18:23, Mr Thant wrote: On 19 Dec, 14:16, (Neil Williams) wrote: Leather seats are becoming increasingly common in buses, particularly those sold as a premium service, because they both "look good" and they are relatively cheap to maintain. *(That's why Ryanair uses them - just a quick wipe-down is needed to clean them). There's at least one type of London bus I've been on that has them. Scanias on the 148 maybe? Yes, but only on a few of them. I also doubt that it's real leather. Not sure about the whole hard wearing aspect when it comes to buses - I recall seeing a few scratched seat covers and also I think a graffiti tag or two - the leather presents a new easy to write on surface on which to scribble (not that fabric covers are immune from this but they require more effort on the part of the scribbler). I'm dubious about leather (or leather-esque) seats in hot weather - I imagine they might get sticky especially on a hot bus in London town. |
Aston-Martin Boris bus
On Dec 19, 5:25*pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 19 Dec, 13:20, "Recliner" wrote: Surprised no-one's posted this story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7790082.stm (complete with pics) Aston Martin designs Routemaster The Aston Martin-Foster design has solar panels Sports car manufacturer Aston Martin is joint winner of a competition to design a new Routemaster bus for London. The Warwickshire-based firm's winning entry was a team effort with leading architects Foster and Partners. They share the £25,000 first prize with bus, coach and truck design firm Capoco Design, based in Wiltshire. A Transport for London spokesman said the first of the greener and more accessible, hop-on hop-off, double-deckers could be in service by 2011. (snip) Two things to note. First off, Capoco Design were the firm that were behind the Autocar story on a new Routemaster back in December 2007 - basically Autocar commissioned them to come up with a paper-prototype for a new bus. I started a thread about it back then:http://groups.google..co.uk/group/uk...owse_frm/threa... An associate editor at Autocar, Hilton Holloway, who was behind this because he wanted "to prove to Bozza that it could – and should – be done" - Boris was of course only the prospective Mayoral candidate at the time. That quote comes from Dave Hill's blog hehttp://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/davehil...oris-transport Now I suppose one can take two views on the apparent willingness of Boris to formulate a policy that is arguably at least partially influenced (though of course of that we cannot be sure) by a magazine article that was produced with him specifically in mind - it could be considered reckless or it could be considered open-minded. There's another possible angle to all this as well of course - perhaps the Autocar article, which got lots of favourable coverage in the mainstream media at the time (and thus helped to associate Boris with notions of a new Routemaster), was concocted by journalists who were sympathetic to Boris, possibly with the loose collaboration of people within Boris' campaign circle, or at least through the wider public school/ Oxbridge old boy network. Autocar is published by the somewhat old school Haymarket Group, a private company founded by the former Conservative MP and Minister Michael Heseltine who is the group's chairman (his son is the deputy chairman) and still holds a large minority stake in the business. I'm sure I read or heard somewhere that Boris was actually a friend or at least quite good acquaintance of someone senior at Autocar magazine (e.g. Chas Hallett, the overall editor, or this associate editor Hilton Holloway), but I cannot find anything to support that at the moment so perhaps that's not right. Anyway my point is merely that there are a bunch of people here whose views are perhaps broadly in confluence with one another, and who may well move in similar circles, who may have acted in ways that were helpful to Boris, whether with or without his blessing. I'm not entirely sure I rate this as a good way of developing important policy. Do note the TfL spokesman's careful qualifier and lack of any firm commitment in this sentence too... "A Transport for London spokesman said the first [...] double-deckers could be in service by 2011." Great word, could. The whole business looks like confusion between "design" and "style". I would have though that the design requirements for a new London bus would be 1) allow people to get on through a convenient door rather than walk past the driver 2) don't be so long as to block crossings and junctions (eg be double- deck) 3) be reasonably accessible to the disabled 4) (if possible) allow people to get on a convenient locations Instead of which, the criteria for winning seem to have been 1) put the engine in the position that it was put in 100 years ago so that the bus looks old-fashioned for tourists Not very impressive really. |
Aston-Martin Boris bus
Mizter T wrote:
On 19 Dec, 18:23, Mr Thant wrote: On 19 Dec, 14:16, (Neil Williams) wrote: Leather seats are becoming increasingly common in buses, particularly those sold as a premium service, because they both "look good" and they are relatively cheap to maintain. (That's why Ryanair uses them - just a quick wipe-down is needed to clean them). There's at least one type of London bus I've been on that has them. Scanias on the 148 maybe? Yes, but only on a few of them. I also doubt that it's real leather. Not sure about the whole hard wearing aspect when it comes to buses - I recall seeing a few scratched seat covers and also I think a graffiti tag or two - the leather presents a new easy to write on surface on which to scribble (not that fabric covers are immune from this but they require more effort on the part of the scribbler). I'm dubious about leather (or leather-esque) seats in hot weather - I imagine they might get sticky especially on a hot bus in London town. Having had a lot of experience with leather I can assure you it is easily ripped and expensive to replace, in fact these days it will be very expensive even to buy in the first place. You only get leather upholstery in the most expensive vehicles these days. Not suitable for mass transit applications. Yes, prone to get sticky, sweaty and damp, probably a health and safety hazard too. -- Martin replies to newsgroup only please. |
Aston-Martin Boris bus
MIG wrote:
On Dec 19, 5:25 pm, Mizter T wrote: On 19 Dec, 13:20, "Recliner" wrote: Surprised no-one's posted this story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7790082.stm (complete with pics) Aston Martin designs Routemaster The Aston Martin-Foster design has solar panels Sports car manufacturer Aston Martin is joint winner of a competition to design a new Routemaster bus for London. The Warwickshire-based firm's winning entry was a team effort with leading architects Foster and Partners. They share the £25,000 first prize with bus, coach and truck design firm Capoco Design, based in Wiltshire. A Transport for London spokesman said the first of the greener and more accessible, hop-on hop-off, double-deckers could be in service by 2011. (snip) Two things to note. First off, Capoco Design were the firm that were behind the Autocar story on a new Routemaster back in December 2007 - basically Autocar commissioned them to come up with a paper-prototype for a new bus. I started a thread about it back then:http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....owse_frm/threa... An associate editor at Autocar, Hilton Holloway, who was behind this because he wanted "to prove to Bozza that it could – and should – be done" - Boris was of course only the prospective Mayoral candidate at the time. That quote comes from Dave Hill's blog hehttp://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/davehil...oris-transport Now I suppose one can take two views on the apparent willingness of Boris to formulate a policy that is arguably at least partially influenced (though of course of that we cannot be sure) by a magazine article that was produced with him specifically in mind - it could be considered reckless or it could be considered open-minded. There's another possible angle to all this as well of course - perhaps the Autocar article, which got lots of favourable coverage in the mainstream media at the time (and thus helped to associate Boris with notions of a new Routemaster), was concocted by journalists who were sympathetic to Boris, possibly with the loose collaboration of people within Boris' campaign circle, or at least through the wider public school/ Oxbridge old boy network. Autocar is published by the somewhat old school Haymarket Group, a private company founded by the former Conservative MP and Minister Michael Heseltine who is the group's chairman (his son is the deputy chairman) and still holds a large minority stake in the business. I'm sure I read or heard somewhere that Boris was actually a friend or at least quite good acquaintance of someone senior at Autocar magazine (e.g. Chas Hallett, the overall editor, or this associate editor Hilton Holloway), but I cannot find anything to support that at the moment so perhaps that's not right. Anyway my point is merely that there are a bunch of people here whose views are perhaps broadly in confluence with one another, and who may well move in similar circles, who may have acted in ways that were helpful to Boris, whether with or without his blessing. I'm not entirely sure I rate this as a good way of developing important policy. Do note the TfL spokesman's careful qualifier and lack of any firm commitment in this sentence too... "A Transport for London spokesman said the first [...] double-deckers could be in service by 2011." Great word, could. The whole business looks like confusion between "design" and "style". I would have though that the design requirements for a new London bus would be 1) allow people to get on through a convenient door rather than walk past the driver 2) don't be so long as to block crossings and junctions (eg be double- deck) 3) be reasonably accessible to the disabled 4) (if possible) allow people to get on a convenient locations Instead of which, the criteria for winning seem to have been 1) put the engine in the position that it was put in 100 years ago so that the bus looks old-fashioned for tourists Not very impressive really. Just the thing for bird-brained style queens and politicians then... -- Martin replies to newsgroup only please. |
Aston-Martin Boris bus
On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 23:32:48 +0000, Martin Smith
wrote: Yes, prone to get sticky, sweaty and damp, probably a health and safety hazard too. Ryanair and a number of bus companies clearly disagree. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
Aston-Martin Boris bus
Neil Williams wrote:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 23:32:48 +0000, Martin Smith wrote: Yes, prone to get sticky, sweaty and damp, probably a health and safety hazard too. Ryanair and a number of bus companies clearly disagree. I would guess it is likely that those persons making such statements never spend much, if any, time sitting on them, especially on hot busy days. -- Martin replies to newsgroup only please. |
Aston-Martin Boris bus
Norwegian newspapers has picked up the story:
http://e24.no/oppogfrem/article2833838.ece#AF The central points in the article are that the bus will be built by the people behind James Bond's car, it will be in service by 2011, be staffed by two, and be virtually emissions-free. It also says that mayor Boris Johnson has approved the plan to give London a new generaton of double-deckers. -- jhk |
Aston-Martin Boris bus
On 19 Dec, 13:20, "Recliner" wrote:
Surprised no-one's posted this story:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/l...2.stm(complete with pics) Aston Martin designs Routemaster The Aston Martin-Foster design has solar panels Sports car manufacturer Aston Martin is joint winner of a competition to design a new Routemaster bus for London. The Warwickshire-based firm's winning entry was a team effort with leading architects Foster and Partners. They share the £25,000 first prize with bus, coach and truck design firm Capoco Design, based in Wiltshire. A Transport for London spokesman said the first of the greener and more accessible, hop-on hop-off, double-deckers could be in service by 2011. The original Routemasters were phased out from regular service by the end of 2005 as they were inaccessible to wheelchairs or pushchairs. Tendering process The competition, in which children were also invited to take part, attracted about 700 entries. The winning designs will now be passed on to bus manufacturers, following a competitive tendering process, to develop into a final proposed design. The Aston Martin-Foster bus design envisages a highly-manoeuvrable, zero-emissions vehicle, with solar panels built into a glass roof, full accessibility, warm lighting and wooden floors. The Capoco design combines what the company describes as "the best of the old with the best of the new". The Capoco Design retains the Routemaster-style front engine It has a low flat floor to allow easy access and will be low emission, but will also retain the Routemaster-style front engine and open rear platform. The youngest winners were nine-year-olds Thomas Staricoff, from Brighton, and Olivia Carrier, from north-west London, who received £200 worth of bicycle vouchers for their drawings of what a new bus should look like. London Mayor Boris Johnson said: "We have had a phenomenal response, with ideas submitted from around the globe, and we now have, in our joint winners, two stunning designs that allow us to go forward and produce a truly iconic bus fit for 21st Century London." But Labour's transport spokesperson on the London Assembly, Val Shawcross, said: "The design competition may have been fun and the winning designs are extremely impressive, but this is not a serious way to make policy and not a worthwhile use of public money. "I have yet to hear one convincing argument for why London needs a new double-decker bus and until Boris comes up with some, Londoners will see this as little more than a vanity project." I couldn't find detail on the engineering: - Will the bus be air conditioned? (Why aren't they now?) - What will the drive train be? Hybrid or Plug-in hybrid seem logical. - What steps are taken to improve safety? (always the biggest perceived problem with routemasters). |
Aston-Martin Boris bus
On 20 Dec, 12:55, disgoftunwells wrote:
On 19 Dec, 13:20, "Recliner" wrote: Surprised no-one's posted this story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7790082.stm (complete with pics) Aston Martin designs Routemaster The Aston Martin-Foster design has solar panels Sports car manufacturer Aston Martin is joint winner of a competition to design a new Routemaster bus for London. The Warwickshire-based firm's winning entry was a team effort with leading architects Foster and Partners. They share the £25,000 first prize with bus, coach and truck design firm Capoco Design, based in Wiltshire. (snip) I couldn't find detail on the engineering: - Will the bus be air conditioned? (Why aren't they now?) - What will the drive train be? Hybrid or Plug-in hybrid seem logical. - What steps are taken to improve safety? (always the biggest perceived problem with routemasters). I think the truth is that there isn't any detail on the engineering, or at least not very much - these are concept designs (and bear in mind that not one design has been chosen as the 'winner', but two). Re air-conditioning - the conventional wisdom seems to be that it's just too impractical to fit A/C to London buses for a variety of reasons, including the fact that the doors are open so often. Some of the newer buses do have quite decent forced-air cooling/circulation systems (or whatever they are called). Also, A/C isn't exactly going to be compatible with an open, door-less platform. And yes, the issue of whether there actually would be an open platform is very a good question. How this all plays out still seems pretty unclear. The notion of a new Routemaster is one that has crossed an enormous number of people's minds over the years, even if just as an inconsequential little day dream - is Boris therefore really planning to be the 'can do' man that ignores people who say such things can't be done in this day and age turns this into a reality, winning accolades from all quarters? I dare say that is his fantasy - his future political career (and be in no doubt, he is ambitious) being boosted by his reputation as being the man that 'saved' London's buses in the public's eye. I'm not sure how this quite fits with his oft professed drive for 'taxpayer value' though. Are these new buses really going to have conductors on them, especially when one bears in mind one of the big arguments for having them is that of speeding up fare collection and hence reducing dwell times - something Oyster has been rather successful in doing? And more to the point how much of the bus network's budget will get swallowed by this project? The bus service in London has got better by leaps and bounds over the past ten years - far more reliable, frequent and faster services providing a far greater capacity with attractively low fares has led to a great increase in passenger numbers. If this 'new Routemaster' project means there'll be less money around for the bread-and-butter of the bus network then all the gains made over the past few years will be in vain. I really hope Boris understands that. |
Aston-Martin Boris bus
On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 13:20:27 -0000, "Recliner"
wrote: But Labour's transport spokesperson on the London Assembly, Val Shawcross, said: "The design competition may have been fun and the winning designs are extremely impressive, but this is not a serious way to make policy and not a worthwhile use of public money. "I have yet to hear one convincing argument for why London needs a new double-decker bus and until Boris comes up with some, Londoners will see this as little more than a vanity project." Val Shawcross is obviously mentally challenged - the new bus would (I imagine) replace the unsafe bendy bus, and also carry a similar number of passengers. This will therefore help reduce congestion as it will occupy less space, being shorter. If the stupid tart had a reasonable number of functioning brain cells then we could assume that she was capable of feeling embarassed at her dear leaders decision to scrap the Routemaster and replace it with the bendy thingy. I note that Swansea council has spent millions on the roads of the city cenntre to permit the local bus operator to run a bendy bus - nobody from the council has been able to suggest any benefits of the newe bus -- Only some ghastly, dehumanised moron would want to get rid of the Routemaster. Ken Livingstone 2001. PeterT - "Reply to" address is a spam trap - all replies to the group please |
Aston-Martin Boris bus
Mizter T wrote:
And more to the point how much of the bus network's budget will get swallowed by this project? The bus service in London has got better by leaps and bounds over the past ten years - far more reliable, frequent and faster services providing a far greater capacity with attractively low fares has led to a great increase in passenger numbers. If this 'new Routemaster' project means there'll be less money around for the bread-and-butter of the bus network then all the gains made over the past few years will be in vain. I really hope Boris understands that. I doubt whether he understands it in the way we, as persons using public transport regularly, see it. Remember he did classics, it is possible that he sees himself as Caius Boris, saviour of the people of Londinium, possibly soon to be elected emperor (or tyrant) of the entire universe by popular demand. Personally I think he is more likely to be equated with one Biggus Dickus of mythical times past. -- Martin replies to newsgroup only please. |
Aston-Martin Boris bus
On 20 Dec, 16:41, Martin Smith wrote: Mizter T wrote: And more to the point how much of the bus network's budget will get swallowed by this project? The bus service in London has got better by leaps and bounds over the past ten years - far more reliable, frequent and faster services providing a far greater capacity with attractively low fares has led to a great increase in passenger numbers. If this 'new Routemaster' project means there'll be less money around for the bread-and-butter of the bus network then all the gains made over the past few years will be in vain. I really hope Boris understands that. I doubt whether he understands it in the way we, as persons using public transport regularly, see it. Remember he did classics, it is possible that he sees himself as Caius Boris, saviour of the people of Londinium, possibly soon to be elected emperor (or tyrant) of the entire universe by popular demand. Personally I think he is more likely to be equated with one Biggus Dickus of mythical times past. Ho ho! I'm in no doubt that he's very ambitious and sees the Mayoralty as but a stepping stone to bigger and better things - bear in mind that never before has a UK politician been directly elected on such a large popular vote as he was. I remember his sister, the columnist and writer Rachel Johnson, being interviewed on the radio the night of his win - she was of course singing his praises but also spoke very unguardedly of her certainty that being Mayor was but a juncture in the ongoing and inevitable ascent of Boris. I think it should be borne in mind that Boris is playing to a national audience, not just a London one - and thus one should look at what he does on the Mayoral stage in this context. Obviously this isn't going to apply to everything he does as Mayor, but it will to the high- profile stuff that gets national coverage - indeed it's likely that the aforementioned stuff will become high-profile and get national coverage because Boris and his people desire this to be the case. So I'm sure he thinks that if he can somehow resurrect the Routemaster this will be another thing on which his reputation as a rare politician 'who actually does what he says' can hang. The thing is ditching the western extension of the congestion charge is one thing - it's easy to cancel something - but actually making something like the new Routemaster happen is a rather different story. I reckon sure he thinks he can somehow do it, and thus create for himself the legend of the politician who 'saved London's bus'. I just hope he realises that he also has the power to ruin London's bus service as well - but perhaps the ongoing day-to-day success of this is of less interest to him than the far more tangible resurrection of an icon. At what cost, Boris? |
Aston-Martin Boris bus
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008, Petert wrote:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 13:20:27 -0000, "Recliner" wrote: But Labour's transport spokesperson on the London Assembly, Val Shawcross, said: "The design competition may have been fun and the winning designs are extremely impressive, but this is not a serious way to make policy and not a worthwhile use of public money. "I have yet to hear one convincing argument for why London needs a new double-decker bus and until Boris comes up with some, Londoners will see this as little more than a vanity project." Val Shawcross is obviously mentally challenged - the new bus would (I imagine) replace the unsafe bendy bus, It isn't unsafe. Cite some solid data or kindly sod off. and also carry a similar number of passengers. While having fewer doors and more stairs. Which means it will have to wait for longer at each stop, and so ... This will therefore help reduce congestion No it won't. as it will occupy less space, being shorter. Almost completely irrelevant. If the stupid tart had a reasonable number of functioning brain cells then we could assume that she was capable of feeling embarassed at her dear leaders decision to scrap the Routemaster and replace it with the bendy thingy. I think you might want to carry out a quick neuron census yourself before letting rubbish like that dribble out of your brain. tom -- Someone needs to invent a comedy mirror where you can see how bad you are before you go out in public. -- p_nochio |
Aston-Martin Boris bus
Does anybody here seriously think that a new bus will be allowed with
open rear deck. With the old routemaster about 10 people used to die every year falling from the bus. Surely any new routemaster will have to have doors which open and close at every stop. Whatever next. Maybe door locking should be removed from train doors so late running commuters can catch their train. That used to kill 20 - 30 people a year before they bought door locks in. |
Aston-Martin Boris bus
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 19:19:22 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote: On Sat, 20 Dec 2008, Petert wrote: On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 13:20:27 -0000, "Recliner" wrote: But Labour's transport spokesperson on the London Assembly, Val Shawcross, said: "The design competition may have been fun and the winning designs are extremely impressive, but this is not a serious way to make policy and not a worthwhile use of public money. "I have yet to hear one convincing argument for why London needs a new double-decker bus and until Boris comes up with some, Londoners will see this as little more than a vanity project." Val Shawcross is obviously mentally challenged - the new bus would (I imagine) replace the unsafe bendy bus, It isn't unsafe. Cite some solid data or kindly sod off. http://www.yrtk.org/wp-content/bendy...s1_route73.xls http://www.yrtk.org/wp-content/bendy...2_route507.xls http://www.yrtk.org/wp-content/bendy...3_route521.xls http://www.yrtk.org/wp-content/bendy...s4_route12.xls http://www.yrtk.org/wp-content/bendy...5_route436.xls http://www.yrtk.org/wp-content/bendy...s6_route18.xls http://www.yrtk.org/wp-content/bendy...6_route453.xls http://www.yrtk.org/wp-content/bendy...7_route149.xls http://www.yrtk.org/wp-content/bendy...s8_route25.xls and also carry a similar number of passengers. While having fewer doors and more stairs. Which means it will have to wait for longer at each stop, and so ... As long as other double deckers, or possibly not as long This will therefore help reduce congestion No it won't. Yes it will as it will occupy less space, being shorter. Almost completely irrelevant. No it's not If the stupid tart had a reasonable number of functioning brain cells then we could assume that she was capable of feeling embarassed at her dear leaders decision to scrap the Routemaster and replace it with the bendy thingy. I think you might want to carry out a quick neuron census yourself before letting rubbish like that dribble out of your brain. I suggest Loperimide will prevent your brain cells from leaking out -- Only some ghastly, dehumanised moron would want to get rid of the Routemaster. Ken Livingstone 2001. PeterT - "Reply to" address is a spam trap - all replies to the group please |
Aston-Martin Boris bus
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Aston-Martin Boris bus
On 20 Dec, 20:24, Adrian wrote:
gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: Does anybody here seriously think that a new bus will be allowed with open rear deck. I sincerely hope so. An open platform may make sense in Oxford Street where the speeds of traffic are pretty slow but really anywhere else it is simply dangerous - the only justification of an open platform is so that people can get on and off at places which aren't bus stops - is there any other?. Mind you, Oxford Street is the only place I saw a potential boarder fall backwards off a Routemaster into the gutter when they missed a bus moving off. On the Railways, people try to open doors on Mark III carriages when the central locking has been applied even when they are told to stop by platform staff. On the Tube, people try to get tube doors open with the slightest opening jamming themselves in. You can't tell me that people won't try to board moving buses that they have just missed and that is dangerous. No amount of education will change public nature. Jonathan |
Aston-Martin Boris bus
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Aston-Martin Boris bus
On 21 Dec, 07:51, Adrian wrote: gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: (snip) No amount of education will change public nature. Nor should it attempt to. So all those 'no-spitting' campaigns of old - of which notices to that effect appeared on Routemaster buses amongst other places - shouldn't have occurred, despite the fact that spitting in public is rather less common than it once was.(especially in places that aren't actually the street). |
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Aston-Martin Boris bus
On 21 Dec, 07:51, Adrian wrote:
gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: Does anybody here seriously think that a new bus will be allowed with open rear deck. I sincerely hope so. An open platform may make sense in Oxford Street where the speeds of traffic are pretty slow but really anywhere else it is simply dangerous - the only justification of an open platform is so that people can get on and off at places which aren't bus stops - is there any other?. Does there need to be? Isn't that compelling enough already? It's about as compelling as saying that you should be able to park your car absolutely anywhere regardless of the effect on traffice. If it was the right way to proceed there wouldn't be rules against drivers opening the doors on conventional buses when they aren't at stops. Mind you, Oxford Street is the only place I saw a potential boarder fall backwards off a Routemaster into the gutter when they missed a bus moving off. ****ed, was he? Not at all. It was an apparently sober female shopper carrying shopping bags who went to board a bus moving off at Oxford Circus and didn't make it. Are you trying to suggest that only drunk people run for buses and miss them? |
Aston-Martin Boris bus
On Dec 21, 1:07*pm, wrote:
On 21 Dec, 07:51, Adrian wrote: gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: Does anybody here seriously think that a new bus will be allowed with open rear deck. I sincerely hope so. An open platform may make sense in Oxford Street where the speeds of traffic are pretty slow but really anywhere else it is simply dangerous - the only justification of an open platform is so that people can get on and off at places which aren't bus stops - is there any other?. Does there need to be? Isn't that compelling enough already? It's about as compelling as saying that you should be able to park your car absolutely anywhere regardless of the effect on traffice. *If it was the right way to proceed there wouldn't be rules against drivers opening the doors on conventional buses when they aren't at stops. Mind you, Oxford Street is the only place I saw a potential boarder fall backwards off a Routemaster into the gutter when they missed a bus moving off. ****ed, was he? Not at all. *It was an apparently sober female shopper carrying shopping bags who went to board a bus moving off at Oxford Circus and didn't make it. *Are you trying to suggest that only drunk people run for buses and miss them? I expect that open platforms would be a far greater risk nowadays, with drivers effectively required to avoid letting people get on or off in order to keep to timings (and all stops being request stops now). |
Aston-Martin Boris bus
On 21 Dec, 13:23, MIG wrote: (snip) I expect that open platforms would be a far greater risk nowadays, with drivers effectively required to avoid letting people get on or off in order to keep to timings (and all stops being request stops now). Are all stops request stops now? I know there was a consultation on this (to which I didn't respond, grrr) but is this now official policy, or just your interpretation of what happens in reality? |
Aston-Martin Boris bus
On Dec 21, 2:13*pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 21 Dec, 13:23, MIG wrote: (snip) I expect that open platforms would be a far greater risk nowadays, with drivers effectively required to avoid letting people get on or off in order to keep to timings (and all stops being request stops now). Are all stops request stops now? I know there was a consultation on this (to which I didn't respond, grrr) but is this now official policy, or just your interpretation of what happens in reality? That's an interesting point ... firstly, yes I was referring facetiously to what is effectively the situation now (having been whisked past a white-coloured stop at Trafalgar Square in the rush hour when I was standing by the door, plus other examples, I am in no doubt). But the thing about the proposal was that drivers would have to stop at all stops if there was someone there, even current request stops, so they'd probably end up stopping much more than they currently do. |
Aston-Martin Boris bus
"MIG" wrote in message ... On Dec 21, 2:13 pm, Mizter T wrote: On 21 Dec, 13:23, MIG wrote: (snip) I expect that open platforms would be a far greater risk nowadays, with drivers effectively required to avoid letting people get on or off in order to keep to timings (and all stops being request stops now). Are all stops request stops now? I know there was a consultation on this (to which I didn't respond, grrr) but is this now official policy, or just your interpretation of what happens in reality? That's an interesting point ... firstly, yes I was referring facetiously to what is effectively the situation now (having been whisked past a white-coloured stop at Trafalgar Square in the rush hour when I was standing by the door, plus other examples, I am in no doubt). Merely standing by the door is not a reliable indication that you want to get off at the next stop. AFAIK it's been the case for many years that passengers wishing to alight should press a red button, whether it's a compulsory or request stop (that distinction being meaningful only for prospective passengers at the stop). But the thing about the proposal was that drivers would have to stop at all stops if there was someone there, even current request stops, so they'd probably end up stopping much more than they currently do. Maybe that's why it doesn't seem to have been implemented. I haven't found any decision mentioned in the TfL board minutes. Does anyone know if a decision was made or are they still thinking about it? Consultation ended in July 2007. -- Richard J. (to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address) |
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Aston-Martin Boris bus
On Dec 21, 5:19*pm, "Richard J." wrote:
"MIG" wrote in message ... On Dec 21, 2:13 pm, Mizter T wrote: On 21 Dec, 13:23, MIG wrote: (snip) I expect that open platforms would be a far greater risk nowadays, with drivers effectively required to avoid letting people get on or off in order to keep to timings (and all stops being request stops now). Are all stops request stops now? I know there was a consultation on this (to which I didn't respond, grrr) but is this now official policy, or just your interpretation of what happens in reality? That's an interesting point ... firstly, yes I was referring facetiously to what is effectively the situation now (having been whisked past a white-coloured stop at Trafalgar Square in the rush hour when I was standing by the door, plus other examples, I am in no doubt). Merely standing by the door is not a reliable indication that you want to get off at the next stop. *AFAIK it's been the case for many years that passengers wishing to alight should press a red button, whether it's a compulsory or request stop (that distinction being meaningful only for prospective passengers at the stop). Indeed not, which is why I always now press the button (and also get up later, wasting more time). However, this merely confirms what I said, which is that all stops are now request stops. It used to the the case that a bus stop being white in colour was all that was required to make the bus stop there. London Transport didn't distinguish between people inside and outside the bus. But the thing about the proposal was that drivers would have to stop at all stops if there was someone there, even current request stops, so they'd probably end up stopping much more than they currently do. Maybe that's why it doesn't seem to have been implemented. I haven't found any decision mentioned in the TfL board minutes. *Does anyone know if a decision was made or are they still thinking about it? *Consultation ended in July 2007. Maybe the responses suitably riduculed the proposal, given the reality, and they realised that they had already got away with a reduction in stops well beyond what they were proposing. |
Aston-Martin Boris bus
On 21 Dec, 21:54, asdf wrote:
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:22:22 -0800 (PST), wrote: Does anybody here seriously think that a new bus will be allowed with open rear deck. I sincerely hope so. An open platform may make sense in Oxford Street where the speeds of traffic are pretty slow but really anywhere else it is simply dangerous - the only justification of an open platform is so that people can get on and off at places which aren't bus stops - is there any other?. - Journeys are sped up even for passengers who only board and alight at bus stops, because the bus needs to spend less time stopped at stops, because some people have already alighted and boarded while the bus was stationary for some other reason. - It also saves time at each stop, as there is no need to wait for the doors to open and close. (A Routemaster can stop at a stop, pick someone up, and move off in literally 2 seconds.) So, why not run conventional buses down Oxford Street (and other places of excessive congestion and lots of traffic lights) with the doors open in advance of the introduction of the Boris-bus? (I appreciate that conventional buses with conductors on route 55 wasn't a success which is perhaps why the driver has to be locked away at the front with a rear entrance if conductors are to be reinstated.) |
Aston-Martin Boris bus
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