Every year it's the same, and this year was no exception. The queues
at Lewisham this morning had to be seen to be believed; they were so
long that they were seriously affecting the ability to enter the
station itself. Presumably this scene was re-enacted across the
network.

Is there a reason why people queue up for ages on the first working
day of the year to renew their season ticket, when you can easily
purchase it online or by phone weeks beforehand, and at the old price
too? Or, if you insist on purchasing it face-to-face, why not buy it
a couple of weeks early, or make it so that it runs Feb-Feb rather
than Jan-Jan?

Are people really so stupid that they'll happily queue for half an
hour in the cold, or is there a reason for this annual craziness?

Patrick

You British just love queuing, whether it be for a banana or a rail
ticket. I buy mine online. I sometime joins queues just for pleasure of
mingling with the English.

Patrick Osborne wrote:
Every year it's the same, and this year was no exception. The queues
at Lewisham this morning had to be seen to be believed; they were so
long that they were seriously affecting the ability to enter the
station itself. Presumably this scene was re-enacted across the
network.

Is there a reason why people queue up for ages on the first working
day of the year to renew their season ticket, when you can easily
purchase it online or by phone weeks beforehand, and at the old price
too? Or, if you insist on purchasing it face-to-face, why not buy it
a couple of weeks early, or make it so that it runs Feb-Feb rather
than Jan-Jan?

Are people really so stupid that they'll happily queue for half an
hour in the cold, or is there a reason for this annual craziness?

Patrick

On 5 Jan, 10:12, Patrick Osborne wrote:
Every year it's the same, and this year was no exception. *The queues
at Lewisham this morning had to be seen to be believed; they were so
long that they were seriously affecting the ability to enter the
station itself. *Presumably this scene was re-enacted across the
network.

I went there today, intending to use the card-only Oyster topup
machine, but there was a huge queue for that as well.

However, people didn't seem to have noticed that the DLR now has an
Oyster-compatible ticket machine, for which there was a one-person
queue.*

Incidentally, although it worked OK, it was disconcertingly slow in
responding.

The one at the NR ticket office is very different. For example, when
it asks you to touch your Oyster at the end of the transaction, it is
so quick to tell you that your card has been updated, it almost seems
to have anticipated the touch.

The new DLR machine seemed to be very slow to respond. I wasn't sure
if it had done anything or not and had taken my card away for a few
seconds before it gave me the message that it had been updated.

Also ... for this transaction it required a PIN. The old DLR machines
take cards, but don't require a PIN, presumably because the maximum
you can spend is quite low. I wonder if the new machines require a
PIN for every transaction?


*This might support a hypothesis that the main demand for the older
machine is for travelcards for people using NR, unless DLR users are
walking straight past the DLR machine, unaware of its existence.



Is there a reason why people queue up for ages on the first working
day of the year to renew their season ticket, when you can easily
purchase it online or by phone weeks beforehand, and at the old price
too? *Or, if you insist on purchasing it face-to-face, why not buy it
a couple of weeks early, or make it so that it runs Feb-Feb rather
than Jan-Jan?

Are people really so stupid that they'll happily queue for half an
hour in the cold, or is there a reason for this annual craziness?

Patrick

On 5 Jan, 12:56, MIG wrote:

On 5 Jan, 10:12, Patrick Osborne wrote:

Every year it's the same, and this year was no exception. The queues
at Lewisham this morning had to be seen to be believed; they were so
long that they were seriously affecting the ability to enter the
station itself. Presumably this scene was re-enacted across the
network.

I went there today, intending to use the card-only Oyster topup
machine, but there was a huge queue for that as well.

However, people didn't seem to have noticed that the DLR now has an
Oyster-compatible ticket machine, for which there was a one-person
queue.*

Incidentally, although it worked OK, it was disconcertingly slow in
responding.

The one at the NR ticket office is very different. For example, when
it asks you to touch your Oyster at the end of the transaction, it is
so quick to tell you that your card has been updated, it almost seems
to have anticipated the touch.

The new DLR machine seemed to be very slow to respond. I wasn't sure
if it had done anything or not and had taken my card away for a few
seconds before it gave me the message that it had been updated.


That doesn't sound great. Perhaps it can be tweaked.


Also ... for this transaction it required a PIN. The old DLR machines
take cards, but don't require a PIN, presumably because the maximum
you can spend is quite low. I wonder if the new machines require a
PIN for every transaction?


Almost certainly yes. AIUI making use of chip and PIN results in the
retailer (in this case the DLR) being less exposed to card fraud. DLR
obviously made the decision that the benefit of upgrading their older
ticket machines wasn't worth it, presumably because they are to be
replaced with this new type (though I don't know anything specifically
about a DLR replacement programme for TVMs).


*This might support a hypothesis that the main demand for the older
machine is for travelcards for people using NR, unless DLR users are
walking straight past the DLR machine, unaware of its existence.


You've overlooked a great contingent of people, those using both NR
and DLR who are interchanging between the two at Lewisham (most likely
off NR onto the DLR), and who may either want Travelcards on Oyster or
are using a rail-only season ticket plus Oyster PAYG for the DLR
because it works out cheaper for them.

I think it most likely that these people simply weren't aware of the
new machine at the Loampit Vale end of the station, not least because
that's not somewhere where interchanging passengers would normally end
up going.

Still a bit daft to want to do these things on the first Monday back
after the break - though perhaps more understandable for those coming
from out in the sticks where there are no Oyster Stop newsagents,
though such people could still make use of the online system and
collect their topup (or indeed Travelcard) when they touch-in to start
travelling from Lewisham on the DLR.

(You have reminded me that I still had a few things to say in that old
thread about this issue - I will try and revisit said thread and post
my comments soon.)

On 5 Jan, 10:12, Patrick Osborne wrote:
Every year it's the same, and this year was no exception. The queues
at Lewisham this morning had to be seen to be believed; they were so
long that they were seriously affecting the ability to enter the
station itself. Presumably this scene was re-enacted across the
network.

Is there a reason why people queue up for ages on the first working
day of the year to renew their season ticket, when you can easily
purchase it online or by phone weeks beforehand, and at the old price
too? Or, if you insist on purchasing it face-to-face, why not buy it
a couple of weeks early, or make it so that it runs Feb-Feb rather
than Jan-Jan?

Are people really so stupid that they'll happily queue for half an
hour in the cold, or is there a reason for this annual craziness?


I can't see any reason for anyone to get embroiled in this annual
mayhem apart from inertia and the lack of forward planning. It's a
blindingly obvious point but nonetheless I'll make it anyway - many
people don't relish the return to work (even if they broadly enjoy
it), so the avoidance of dealing in advance with their season-
ticketing requirements is perhaps just an example of them not wanting
to let the realities of what's to come intrude on their holidays.

By the by, I found a little trick out on New Years Day -
Southeastern's Scheidt & Bachmann (S&B) ticket machines allow one to
purchase 'tickets for tomorrow' after 4pm (though only when 'tomorrow'
is a weekday), and also include the option of renewing one's last
monthly season ticket - obviously one needs to be on the Southeastern
season ticket database (which I am), but then all you have to do is
enter your photocard number and then your post code.

The system presents you the option of your 'renewal' (which despite
the terminology doesn't have to dovetail with the end of your last
monthly) and allows you to select whether it is to start 'today' or
'tomorrow' (I think the latter only being available after 4pm) - it's
worth noting that t only allows you to buy a monthly renewal of your
last ticket that's on their records, not a new ticket with a different
validity.

I therefore pressed the + (plus) option to advance it by a day and
voila, the system offered to sell me a monthly season ticket starting
on 2 January - the first day of the new fares - at the old 2008 price!
Just a little something that's worth bearing in mind for next year
perhaps! It might also work on the ticket machines of other TOCs - SWT
for example use S&B machines as does London Midland. I'm not sure
whether Shere machines (used by Southern amongst others) has this
'quirk' - it may well be specific to the S&B machines.

I should add that I also looked up to see what happened when one tries
to buy either normal (i.e. non-season) tickets or weekly seasons
staring 'tomorrow' (i.e. 2 Jan), and in both cases the machine
correctly presented the new 2009 prices.

On Jan 5, 5:15*pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 5 Jan, 12:56, MIG wrote:





On 5 Jan, 10:12, Patrick Osborne wrote:

Every year it's the same, and this year was no exception. *The queues
at Lewisham this morning had to be seen to be believed; they were so
long that they were seriously affecting the ability to enter the
station itself. *Presumably this scene was re-enacted across the
network.

I went there today, intending to use the card-only Oyster topup
machine, but there was a huge queue for that as well.

However, people didn't seem to have noticed that the DLR now has an
Oyster-compatible ticket machine, for which there was a one-person
queue.*

Incidentally, although it worked OK, it was disconcertingly slow in
responding.

The one at the NR ticket office is very different. *For example, when
it *asks you to touch your Oyster at the end of the transaction, it is
so quick to tell you that your card has been updated, it almost seems
to have anticipated the touch.

The new DLR machine seemed to be very slow to respond. *I wasn't sure
if it had done anything or not and had taken my card away for a few
seconds before it gave me the message that it had been updated.

That doesn't sound great. Perhaps it can be tweaked.



Also ... for this transaction it required a PIN. *The old DLR machines
take cards, but don't require a PIN, presumably because the maximum
you can spend is quite low. *I wonder if the new machines require a
PIN for every transaction?

Almost certainly yes. AIUI making use of chip and PIN results in the
retailer (in this case the DLR) being less exposed to card fraud. DLR
obviously made the decision that the benefit of upgrading their older
ticket machines wasn't worth it, presumably because they are to be
replaced with this new type (though I don't know anything specifically
about a DLR replacement programme for TVMs).



*This might support a hypothesis that the main demand for the older
machine is for travelcards for people using NR, unless DLR users are
walking straight past the DLR machine, unaware of its existence.

You've overlooked a great contingent of people, those using both NR
and DLR who are interchanging between the two at Lewisham (most likely
off NR onto the DLR), and who may either want Travelcards on Oyster or
are using a rail-only season ticket plus Oyster PAYG for the DLR
because it works out cheaper for them.

I think it most likely that these people simply weren't aware of the
new machine at the Loampit Vale end of the station, not least because
that's not somewhere where interchanging passengers would normally end
up going.

Still a bit daft to want to do these things on the first Monday back
after the break - though perhaps more understandable for those coming
from out in the sticks where there are no Oyster Stop newsagents,
though such people could still make use of the online system and
collect their topup (or indeed Travelcard) when they touch-in to start
travelling from Lewisham on the DLR.

Yeah; I wasn't expecting to need to top up today if it wasn't for a
few unplanned trips to Kensington with no cash on me over the
weekend ...

On 5 Jan, 19:01, MIG wrote:

On Jan 5, 5:15 pm, Mizter T wrote:

(snip)

Still a bit daft to want to do these things on the first Monday back
after the break - though perhaps more understandable for those coming
from out in the sticks where there are no Oyster Stop newsagents,
though such people could still make use of the online system and
collect their topup (or indeed Travelcard) when they touch-in to start
travelling from Lewisham on the DLR.

Yeah; I wasn't expecting to need to top up today if it wasn't for a
few unplanned trips to Kensington with no cash on me over the
weekend ...

Sorry MIG I wasn't trying for a moment to imply you were one of the
aforementioned 'daft bunch' whatsoever! I had actually assumed your
top-up was instead more a discretionary one, taking the opportunity
whilst it's there and all that.

On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 02:12:58AM -0800, Patrick Osborne wrote:

Every year it's the same, and this year was no exception. The queues
at Lewisham this morning had to be seen to be believed; they were so
long that they were seriously affecting the ability to enter the
station itself. Presumably this scene was re-enacted across the
network.

I was expecting it to be terrible at Thornton Heath too. I'd tried to
buy my ticket the previous day, but got there too late and the ticket
office was closed, so I resigned myself to having to queue for ages on
Monday.

But no, there was no queue at all when I got there just before 9.
Hurrah! No idea how that happened, cos there's usually a fair old queue
every Monday as people renew their weekly tickets.

Is there a reason why people queue up for ages on the first working
day of the year to renew their season ticket, when you can easily
purchase it online ...

I don't use the computarmachine to do it because of the stupid rules and
regulations he
http://southernrailway.com/main.php?page_id=511

They appear to have forgotten the option of "I would like to order a
ticket starting on date A and finishing on date B".

--
David Cantrell | Reality Engineer, Ministry of Information

The voices said it's a good day to clean my weapons