http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7829676.stm

Well, there you go. I have to say I was unsure about whether the
government would opt for it bit it seems they have. To make good use
of the vernacular, there is going to be a total and utter **** storm
about this. It's going to prompt massive and wide scale protests from
a whole cross-section of people. I'm not quite sure how the Tories
pledge of no third runway fits in with this - if the Tories are
elected in 2010 will they scrap work on it? One can only presume that
nothing will have actually happened on the ground by then.

The BBC article has this to say on the time scale of proceedings:

---quote---
Asked about the decision on Wednesday, Prime Minister Gordon Brown
declined to guarantee MPs a vote on the issue.

Should the government give the go-ahead, he said there would be a
debate in Parliament and that the scheme would have to be granted
planning permission.

This is likely to be a lengthy process, with work on a new runway
unlike to be completed before 2019
---/quote---


Also, with regards to the whole issue of high-speed rail links and
Heathrow Hubs and the like, the BBC piece only says this:
---quote---
Alongside the commitment to a new runway, Transport Secretary Geoff
Hoon is expected to announce increased investment in public transport,
including a new high-speed rail link from the airport to central
London.
---/quote---

I suspect that's not what is really meant - or is it? Surely the Big
Idea is to link in Heathrow to a new north-south high-speed line - but
it's far from clear whether the current government might actually
subscribe to this Big Idea, even as part of a package along with
making Heathrow the transport hub of the known Universe.

On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 17:51:21 -0800 (PST) someone who may be Mizter T
wrote this:-

---quote---
Alongside the commitment to a new runway, Transport Secretary Geoff
Hoon is expected to announce increased investment in public transport,
including a new high-speed rail link from the airport to central
London.
---/quote---

I suspect that's not what is really meant - or is it?

I'll wait for the announcement. However, they faced two choices:

1) the same old stuff which has got this in the current mess. Expand
Heathrow and provide some fig leaves for the embarrassed to hide
behind.

2) put their claimed policies on climate change, equatability, the
economy and jobs into action. Get rid of most of the short distance
flights by transferring the trips onto trains, leaving plenty of
space for long distance flights.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

In message
, at
17:51:21 on Wed, 14 Jan 2009, Mizter T remarked:
---quote---
Alongside the commitment to a new runway, Transport Secretary Geoff
Hoon is expected to announce increased investment in public transport,
including a new high-speed rail link from the airport to central
London.
---/quote---

I suspect that's not what is really meant - or is it?

They seem to be talking about a new line from Heathrow to St Pancras.

The original HEx plans had a second terminus at St Pancras, via a route
through north London - this new one might be a tunnel. Is it too late to
divert Crossrail slightly, and have one of its stations at St Pancras?
Or maybe a very long travelator from Farringdon
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
news
In message
, at
17:51:21 on Wed, 14 Jan 2009, Mizter T remarked:
---quote---
Alongside the commitment to a new runway, Transport Secretary Geoff
Hoon is expected to announce increased investment in public transport,
including a new high-speed rail link from the airport to central
London.
---/quote---

I suspect that's not what is really meant - or is it?

They seem to be talking about a new line from Heathrow to St Pancras.

The original HEx plans had a second terminus at St Pancras, via a route
through north London - this new one might be a tunnel. Is it too late to
divert Crossrail slightly, and have one of its stations at St Pancras? Or
maybe a very long travelator from Farringdon

Crossrail is not an 'express' service. Its services are all stations
stoppers
from the airport, which is why it takes over Connect, not HEx. Unless it is
to have overtaking loops of course...

Looking at the supposed hub proposals, I suspect the existing HEx will be
almost as fast to the existing terminals 123 (East) and 5, as it won't
include a change at the 'Hub'. Given the tunnel from St Pancras to
Stratford, and as far as the surface at Dagenham, is speed limited, the
latest proposals also probably won't necessarily provide HSL speeds as far
as Heathrow anyway?

Paul

In message , at 09:21:53 on
Thu, 15 Jan 2009, Paul Scott remarked:
Given the tunnel from St Pancras to Stratford, and as far as the
surface at Dagenham, is speed limited, the latest proposals also
probably won't necessarily provide HSL speeds as far as Heathrow anyway?

I'd be very surprised if plans for a HSL from Heathrow to St Pancras
were in any way inhibited from describing a similarly speed restricted
tunnel as "High Speed".

It's all spin, anyway. Like the so-called High Speed line from Brussels
to Amsterdam, which will use the existing tracks (no faster than 15
minute transit time) from [a little before] Schiphol into the city
centre.
--
Roland Perry

"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...

"Roland Perry" wrote

They seem to be talking about a new line from Heathrow to St Pancras.

The original HEx plans had a second terminus at St Pancras, via a route
through north London - this new one might be a tunnel. Is it too late to
divert Crossrail slightly, and have one of its stations at St Pancras?
Or
maybe a very long travelator from Farringdon

Crossrail is not an 'express' service. Its services are all stations
stoppers
from the airport, which is why it takes over Connect, not HEx. Unless it
is
to have overtaking loops of course...

I'll wait to see the actual proposals before I comment on them. However, a
previous thread suggested that HEx would be likely to lose to Crossrail
passengers who now transfer from HEx to LUL at Paddington, plus others who
transfer to taxis, but will now do so at another Crossrail station. So there
might be a case for diverting HEx (in tunnel, not wandering all round
Cricklewood) to St Pancras. Passengers who needd to travel between heathrow
and Paddington will still be able to use Crossrail.

Peter

In message , at 10:48:31 on
Thu, 15 Jan 2009, Peter Masson remarked:
So there might be a case for diverting HEx (in tunnel, not wandering
all round Cricklewood) to St Pancras.

Would this be a new station at St Pancras, or maybe sharing the Kent
domestic platforms, which might be over-specified. On the other hand, if
Thameslink2012 does in fact include through-running from the GN services
on the ECML, there will greater spare capacity at KX.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 10:48:31 on
Thu, 15 Jan 2009, Peter Masson remarked:
So there might be a case for diverting HEx (in tunnel, not wandering
all round Cricklewood) to St Pancras.

Would this be a new station at St Pancras, or maybe sharing the Kent
domestic platforms, which might be over-specified. On the other hand, if
Thameslink2012 does in fact include through-running from the GN services
on the ECML, there will greater spare capacity at KX.

I envisage an underground terminus, possibly double ended, with one entrance
from the concourse at St Pancras (near the access to the Thameslink
platforms, and another with an entrance from Euston (may need a travelator).

Peter

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 09:21:53 -0000, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

Crossrail is not an 'express' service. Its services are all stations
stoppers
from the airport, which is why it takes over Connect, not HEx. Unless it is
to have overtaking loops of course...

And unless they find that nobody wants to use HEx any more, because
Crossrail will go where people want, not Paddington.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Jan 15, 1:51*am, Mizter T wrote:
of the vernacular, there is going to be a total and utter **** storm
about this. It's going to prompt massive and wide scale protests from

Especially given that passenger numbers at heathrow are dropping
according to this report. The whole thing stinks. Wouldn't surprise me
if the whole thing is just an excuse for the government to create
another show project to pretend their in touch with business.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...4/baa-heathrow

B2003