Tocside - no room for confusion.

"Dr J R Stockton" wrote :
That sounds like one half of a pendulum clock.

Language doesn't need to be pretty; it simply needs to communicate.

"Paul Scott" wrote...
Except we are discussing barriers in an LU station, and there are plenty
of TOC run stations that have no barriers, and both LU & TOCs are
generally responsible for the whole station anyway, whichever side of the
barrier you are on. Unless you are in a major main line station managed by
Network Rail, or a minor main line station run by LU etc etc...
So as you say, no room for confusion at all...

Nitpicking! I suspect you are choosing to be confused ;o)

Once you cross the barrier, you are tocside; even if there's no physical
barrier, once you've crossed, you are on 'railway territory' as opposed to
'a public place'.

LU isn't formally a 'TOC' - but you'd have to try hard to be confused about
its TOC function; Overground is already a TOC (those nice German folk), and
before long, I supect that Boris will (at least try to) do the same with the
underground lines.

And having a separate term for LU and 'British Rail' would definitely be
confusing.
--
Andrew


If you stand up and be counted,
From time to time you may get yourself knocked down.
But remember this:
A man flattened by an opponent can get up again.
A man flattened by conformity stays down for good.
- Thomas J. Watson Jr.

On Feb 9, 7:58*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 10:19:17 -0800 (PST), Mr Thant

wrote:
On 7 Feb, 14:14, Tom Anderson wrote:
I think i've seen fare-paid used in this way, but it's not as snappy.

Paid and unpaid [areas/passageways/etc] are common in official
documents.

Is the correct answer. *This is typically how areas either side of a
gateline or fixed barrier line are described. *The only obvious
exception to this rule is Stratford JLE with the interchange gateline
where paid areas exist both sides.

I assume there's going to be a similar situation at Waterloo (if not
already; haven't been for a while).

"MIG" wrote in message
...
On Feb 9, 7:58 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:

Is the correct answer. This is typically how areas either side of a
gateline or fixed barrier line are described. The only obvious
exception to this rule is Stratford JLE with the interchange gateline
where paid areas exist both sides.

I assume there's going to be a similar situation at Waterloo (if not
already; haven't been for a while).

Not AFAICS, there are still fully independent gatelines, even in the peak
hours subway from the NR platforms, where you exit through a NR barrier
line, then enter LU (Bakerloo/Northern) through their existing barriers.

Paul S

On Feb 9, 9:46*pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
"MIG" wrote in message

...
On Feb 9, 7:58 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:

Is the correct answer. This is typically how areas either side of a
gateline or fixed barrier line are described. The only obvious
exception to this rule is Stratford JLE with the interchange gateline
where paid areas exist both sides.
I assume there's going to be a similar situation at Waterloo (if not
already; haven't been for a while).

Not AFAICS, there are still fully independent gatelines, even in the peak
hours subway from the NR platforms, where you exit through a NR barrier
line, then enter LU (Bakerloo/Northern) *through their existing barriers.

Paul S

Ah, right. Is the whole subway barriered off at the LU end? Must be
a few yards from the LU barrier.

On 9 Feb, 22:55, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Mon, 9 Feb 2009 13:22:25 -0800 (PST), MIG



wrote:
On Feb 9, 7:58*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 10:19:17 -0800 (PST), Mr Thant

wrote:
On 7 Feb, 14:14, Tom Anderson wrote:
I think i've seen fare-paid used in this way, but it's not as snappy.

Paid and unpaid [areas/passageways/etc] are common in official
documents.

Is the correct answer. *This is typically how areas either side of a
gateline or fixed barrier line are described. *The only obvious
exception to this rule is Stratford JLE with the interchange gateline
where paid areas exist both sides.

I assume there's going to be a similar situation at Waterloo (if not
already; haven't been for a while).

I haven't been for a long while but I understand the peak hour
arrangement involves directing flows within the overall structure under
the stairs from the platforms and then emerging into the long gallery.
I believe a request to gate off the long gallery was met with a "no".

The gatelines will be independent - which they really need to be given
that LUL / TfL fares do not apply each side of them. *For an interchange
gateline to exist the same farescale has to exist both sides of it.
--
Paul C

The interchange gateline that does exist at Waterloo is the Waterloo
East / Southwark gateline.

"Peter Campbell Smith" wrote in message
...
wrote in
news
In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at
16:34:57 on Sat, 7 Feb 2009, remarked:
The access from the concourse doesn't close till tomorrow.

I keep forgetting it's been delayed.

Only until today, though.

When I first used that entrance regularly - maybe around 1980 - there was
a
boarded-up escalator from the passage-that-has-just-been-closed up to the
mainline station concourse, adjoining the stairs. Later, it was removed
and the stairs were widened. I often wondered (as I lugged my bags up the
stairs) whether it was ever in use and why it was removed.

I recall it being used as an 'up' escalator, but it seemed frequently to be
out of use, presumably defective. I don't know specifically why it was
removed.

In message , at 07:47:16 on Mon, 9 Feb
2009, Roland Perry remarked:
I'll add the lifts to the passage-way plan I've been using in my
composite pictures, and post it later today.

Apologies for delay. A couple of these need some extra lift-access
passages which I haven't added, but generally they are in the right
places.

http://www.perry.co.uk/images/kx-com...with-lifts.jpg
--
Roland Perry

On 8 Feb, 21:36, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
13:30:49 on Sun, 8 Feb 2009, lonelytraveller
remarked:

Its just occurred to me that maybe they are closing the passage so
that they can turn it into a gentle slope downwards, accessed from the
airside - it would join up with the old northern line lift shaft very
smoothly if they did that.
None of the plans show any such passage, or re-use of the old lifts.
One set of old northern line lifts have a modern lift (designated with
an X hatch) in it...

Where is the other end?

And the lift is not for public use, either now or in the future, I
reckon. That's the important aspect.

Correct - it's an access lift for firefighters. One of the problems in
the King's Cross fire of 1987 was the inability of firefighters being
able to get below the seat of the fire to assess and possibly fight
it. It will very likely never need to be used in such a serious
situation, but it's there and available. I can't remember if this was
one of the Fennell Report recommendations or not.

Regards
Brian

On 9 Feb, 14:38, Peter Campbell Smith
wrote:
wrote innews
In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at
16:34:57 on Sat, 7 Feb 2009, remarked:
The access from the concourse doesn't close till tomorrow.

I keep forgetting it's been delayed.

Only until today, though.

When I first used that entrance regularly - maybe around 1980 - there was a
boarded-up escalator from the passage-that-has-just-been-closed up to the
mainline station concourse, adjoining the stairs. *Later, it was removed
and the stairs were widened. *I often wondered (as I lugged my bags up the
stairs) whether it was ever in use and why it was removed.

I remember Alan Williams in Modern Railways (some decades ago!)
complaining that the escalator never worked, then it was hidden away
by hoardings, then removed. Don't know why though. Perhaps British
Rail wasn't very good at maintaining escalators so thought it better
just to get rid of it!

On 13 Feb, 00:34, wrote:
One of the problems in
the King's Cross fire of 1987 was the inability of firefighters being
able to get below the seat of the fire to assess and possibly fight
it.
Why couldn't they use the spiral staircase (the old emergency stairs)
- they are still there according to the plans, and they are definitely
still there at platform level (although the tiling is quite flaky).