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King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
Surprisingly, I don't think this has been posted here yet...
Posters displayed at King's Cross indicate that the entrance to the Underground from within the main line station concourse - the one more or less opposite platform 7 - which seems to have been there for ever, at least within my recollection, is to close permanently from next Sunday, 1st February. |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
On 26 Jan, 00:35, "John Salmon" wrote: Surprisingly, I don't think this has been posted here yet... Posters displayed at King's Cross indicate that the entrance to the Underground from within the main line station concourse - the one more or less opposite platform 7 - which seems to have been there for ever, at least within my recollection, is to close permanently from next Sunday, 1st February. Intriguing. I've found this information on the TfL website: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/proj....aspx#entrance ---quote--- Entrance closure - 1 February 2009 The staircase that leads from within King's Cross mainline station to the Underground will be closed permanently from 1 February 2009. This closure is to enable a lift to be installed to provide step-free access from the ticket hall to the Northern line platforms. This staircase will not re-open, but a new route between King's Cross mainline and the Underground will open nearby when the new Northern ticket hall opens in 2010. Until then, passengers should use the main entrance staircase and lift located outside of King's Cross mainline station, to change between rail and Underground services. ---/quote--- In time the whole focus of King's Cross station is shifting from the present concourse over to the new western concourse, which will open in 2011/ 2012 - in this context the closure of this staircase makes rather more sense. I'm not really all that clued up on the redevelopment of the station, but it seems as though the new northern Tube ticket hall will become the primary entrance to the Underground from the mainline station. This Network Rail webpage provides a rough outline as to the plans, but there's not really enough detail in it: http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/4059.aspx I note that the footbridge in the main trainshed was scheduled to be removed over Christmas - I haven't been into KX lately so can't say if this happened or not. It was fun walking over it when it was still open, it was a distinctly forgotten corner of the station. It only gave access to platforms 1 and 8 - was this always the case? I also note that it's being/been taken into storage - any ideas for a new home for it? |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
John Salmon wrote:
Surprisingly, I don't think this has been posted here yet... Posters displayed at King's Cross indicate that the entrance to the Underground from within the main line station concourse - the one more or less opposite platform 7 - which seems to have been there for ever, at least within my recollection, is to close permanently from next Sunday, 1st February. I may be missing something, but this is a great pity. It was so easy to get off an arriving train, and straight down the stairs into the underground. Fom 1 Feb, you have through the often crowded station concourse, out of the front of the station, merge in with everyone else coming into the station, and then down the stairs. All this so a lift can be installed. This seems very contrary. |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
In message , at 09:54:37 on Mon, 26
Jan 2009, Allan remarked: Fom 1 Feb, you have through the often crowded station concourse, out of the front of the station, merge in with everyone else coming into the station, and then down the stairs. Look on the bright side - you are still walking about a quarter of the distance that people arriving from the Midland Mainline are. -- Roland Perry |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
On 26 Jan, 09:54, Allan wrote: John Salmon wrote: Surprisingly, I don't think this has been posted here yet... Posters displayed at King's Cross indicate that the entrance to the Underground from within the main line station concourse - the one more or less opposite platform 7 - which seems to have been there for ever, at least within my recollection, is to close permanently from next Sunday, 1st February. I may be missing something, but this is a great pity. *It was so easy to get off an arriving train, and straight down the stairs into the underground. Fom 1 Feb, you have through the often crowded station concourse, out of the front of the station, merge in with everyone else coming into the station, and then down the stairs. All this so a lift can be installed. This seems very contrary. Come 2011/2012 when the new western concourse at King's Cross mainline station opens, then things would be changing anyway. I very much doubt that this entrance would be closing now were it not for these major forthcoming changes to the mainline station which will result in the current concourse disappearing. So what you're missing is the bigger picture of how things are to develop at King's Cross - this is just a stage in those developments. |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 09:54:37 +0000, Allan
wrote: John Salmon wrote: Surprisingly, I don't think this has been posted here yet... Posters displayed at King's Cross indicate that the entrance to the Underground from within the main line station concourse - the one more or less opposite platform 7 - which seems to have been there for ever, at least within my recollection, is to close permanently from next Sunday, 1st February. I may be missing something, but this is a great pity. It was so easy to get off an arriving train, and straight down the stairs into the underground. Fom 1 Feb, you have through the often crowded station concourse, out of the front of the station, merge in with everyone else coming into the station, and then down the stairs. All this so a lift can be installed. This seems very contrary. I, and I suspect many others will call the powers that be that thought up this ridiculous plan a bunch of arseholes. If anything they should have been providing more escalators or a high capacity rapid lift in this area rather than moving it outside. When those without the funds to travel 1st class on NXEC often have to walk down the platforms from just outside Peterborough, the long walk to a platform on the underground often leaves them hot sweaty and completely knackered. Making it more complicated and adding a trip into the open air is proof that passengers are just an inconvenience. Maybe they could also move the KX taxi ranks to 83 yards down the road from London Victoria? -- |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 09:54:37 +0000, Allan put finger to keyboard and
typed: John Salmon wrote: Surprisingly, I don't think this has been posted here yet... Posters displayed at King's Cross indicate that the entrance to the Underground from within the main line station concourse - the one more or less opposite platform 7 - which seems to have been there for ever, at least within my recollection, is to close permanently from next Sunday, 1st February. I may be missing something, but this is a great pity. It was so easy to get off an arriving train, and straight down the stairs into the underground. Fom 1 Feb, you have through the often crowded station concourse, out of the front of the station, merge in with everyone else coming into the station, and then down the stairs. In the short term, yes, it's going to be a nuisance. But it's part of a long-term plan which will, at least in theory, make things a lot better. All this so a lift can be installed. It's not just so a lift can be installed. In the long run, the whole of the existing concourse area (where the stairs currently emerge) will disappear. The new concourse will be to the side of the station, instead of in front of it, and the area where the stairs now emerge will be outside the building instead of inside it. There's are some artist's impressions of the station after the concourse redevelopment at: http://www.e-architect.co.uk/london/...ss_station.htm and the Network Rail information page about it is at: http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/4059.aspx Mark -- A Miscellany Of Good Stuff: http://www.good-stuff.co.uk http://namestore.good-stuff.co.uk http://news.good-stuff.co.uk |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
In message
, at 02:11:21 on Mon, 26 Jan 2009, Mizter T remarked: I very much doubt that this entrance would be closing now were it not for these major forthcoming changes to the mainline station which will result in the current concourse disappearing. This entrance, and indeed any lift built on the same footprint, will be in the middle of an open space, when the redevelopment is complete. Remember also, that people arriving on the main platforms at KX will be tipped out into that open space (with very limited coverage from the rain). This halfway house will get them used to packing an umbrella :) -- Roland Perry |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
In message , at 10:21:16 on
Mon, 26 Jan 2009, Mike remarked: I, and I suspect many others will call the powers that be that thought up this ridiculous plan a bunch of arseholes. If anything they should have been providing more escalators or a high capacity rapid lift in this area rather than moving it outside. This old staircase *would* be outside, when they demolish the current roof over the "temporary" concourse. When those without the funds to travel 1st class on NXEC often have to walk down the platforms from just outside Peterborough, the long walk to a platform on the underground often leaves them hot sweaty and completely knackered. Making it more complicated and adding a trip into the open air is proof that passengers are just an inconvenience. As I said earlier, the walk is considerably less than Midland Mainline passengers have been enduring since the refurbishment of St Pancras began - for a couple of years the only way to the tube was a long walk outside in the rain; now it's a slightly longer walk, albeit indoors. Maybe they could also move the KX taxi ranks to 83 yards down the road from London Victoria? Haven't they already moved the taxi rank to the road in between KX and StP? Again, difficult to get to without being rained upon. -- Roland Perry |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
On Jan 26, 10:39*am, Roland Perry wrote:
Remember also, that people arriving on the main platforms at KX will be tipped out into that open space (with very limited coverage from the rain). This halfway house will get them used to packing an umbrella :) Eh? The new footbridge to the new western concourse will be the primary exit route to the Tube, St Pancras, etc. The exit to the south where the current concourse is will only be for people exiting into the local area. -- John Band john at johnband dot org www.johnband.org |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
In message e.net, at
10:32:10 on Mon, 26 Jan 2009, Mark Goodge remarked: the area where the stairs now emerge will be outside the building instead of inside it. There's are some artist's impressions of the station after the concourse redevelopment at: http://www.e-architect.co.uk/london/...ss_station.htm I wonder if this new lift will be under the "green oval" in front of the station? -- Roland Perry |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
In message
Roland Perry wrote: [snip] As I said earlier, the walk is considerably less than Midland Mainline passengers have been enduring since the refurbishment of St Pancras began - for a couple of years the only way to the tube was a long walk outside in the rain; now it's a slightly longer walk, albeit indoors. That's all part of the Government plan to improve peole's fitness, By the time you've walked from the train to the UndergrounD and back in the evening you've done your reccomended 30 minutes exercise a day :-) -- Graeme Wall This address is not read, substitute trains for rail. Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
In message
, at 02:49:10 on Mon, 26 Jan 2009, John B remarked: Remember also, that people arriving on the main platforms at KX will be tipped out into that open space (with very limited coverage from the rain). This halfway house will get them used to packing an umbrella :) Eh? The new footbridge to the new western concourse will be the primary exit route to the Tube, St Pancras, etc. The exit to the south where the current concourse is will only be for people exiting into the local area. My understanding is that the bridge is only for passengers going *to* the trains. -- Roland Perry |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
On 26 Jan, 10:50, Roland Perry wrote: In message e.net, at 10:32:10 on Mon, 26 Jan 2009, Mark Goodge remarked: the area where the stairs now emerge will be outside the building instead of inside it. There's are some artist's impressions of the station after the concourse redevelopment at: http://www.e-architect.co.uk/london/...ss_station.htm I wonder if this new lift will be under the "green oval" in front of the station? For reference: http://www.e-architect.co.uk/london/...il271107_1.jpg It looks too close to Euston Road to be that. I'm guessing that the arrangement will mean that the lift machinery need not protrude above the surface. |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
On 26 Jan, 10:50, Roland Perry wrote:
I wonder if this new lift will be under the "green oval" in front of the station? My guess is it'll be starting at basement level (ie the tube ticket hall), rather than street level. It's not shown on any diagrams I can find though. The Northern Ticket Hall opens in December this year, and I would hope will offer an indoor connection to KX. That may be why the Duke of York has been closed. U |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
In message
, at 03:11:09 on Mon, 26 Jan 2009, Mizter T remarked: I wonder if this new lift will be under the "green oval" in front of the station? For reference: http://www.e-architect.co.uk/london/...il271107_1.jpg It looks too close to Euston Road to be that. I'm guessing that the arrangement will mean that the lift machinery need not protrude above the surface. So this lift is only from the booking hall level to the tube lines, not from the surface? -- Roland Perry |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
On 26 Jan, 11:15, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 03:11:09 on Mon, 26 Jan 2009, Mizter T remarked: I wonder if this new lift will be under the "green oval" in front of the station? For reference: http://www.e-architect.co.uk/london/...ation_nrail271... It looks too close to Euston Road to be that. I'm guessing that the arrangement will mean that the lift machinery need not protrude above the surface. So this lift is only from the booking hall level to the tube lines, not from the surface? Yes. From the webpage I cited earlier: "This closure is to enable a lift to be installed to provide step-free access from the ticket hall to the Northern line platforms." http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/proj....aspx#entrance It does make sense to avoid having a direct link from the platforms to the surface that would bypass the ticket hall. However the 'green oval' arrangement you noted earlier might in fact play host to a separate lift that would link the surface to the ticket hall. |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
In message
, at 03:14:45 on Mon, 26 Jan 2009, Mr Thant remarked: The Northern Ticket Hall opens in December this year, As soon as that? Is it timed to co-incide with the opening of the Kent Domestics. Will all the new escalators/passageways to the tube lines be complete as well? and I would hope will offer an indoor connection to KX. The entrances to the northern hall will be quite close to the KX Suburban platforms, and therefore a long de-tour. The new tube entrance from KX Mainline will be from somewhere around the current Ladies toilets, and will lead to the existing ticket hall in a passage under the current ex-GNER ticket office. This will emerge into the existing ticket hall in the same place as the passageway from the soon-to-be-closed stairs. -- Roland Perry |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
In message
, at 03:26:25 on Mon, 26 Jan 2009, Mizter T remarked: "This closure is to enable a lift to be installed to provide step-free access from the ticket hall to the Northern line platforms." http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/proj....aspx#entrance It does make sense to avoid having a direct link from the platforms to the surface that would bypass the ticket hall. If you mean "it makes sense not to bypass the barrier line", then that narrows the possibilities regarding where this lift will be installed. In other words, it will have to be somewhere between the barriers and the escalators - which doesn't feel like it's anywhere near the current "landside" stairs that are being closed. However the 'green oval' arrangement you noted earlier might in fact play host to a separate lift that would link the surface to the ticket hall. There's nothing shown on the plans (which I've now found). Indeed it may well be above the escalator down to the Victoria Line, which limits the possibilities of putting anything overhead. -- Roland Perry |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
On 26 Jan, 11:33, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 03:14:45 on Mon, 26 Jan 2009, Mr Thant remarked: The Northern Ticket Hall opens in December this year, As soon as that? Is it timed to co-incide with the opening of the Kent Domestics. Will all the new escalators/passageways to the tube lines be complete as well? It's almost as if there's a masterplan at work! I think the timing is intended to coincide with the arrival of the Kent high-speed trains at St. P. and I would hope will offer an indoor connection to KX. The entrances to the northern hall will be quite close to the KX Suburban platforms, and therefore a long de-tour. The new tube entrance from KX Mainline will be from somewhere around the current Ladies toilets, and will lead to the existing ticket hall in a passage under the current ex-GNER ticket office. This will emerge into the existing ticket hall in the same place as the passageway from the soon-to-be-closed stairs. Aha, that makes sense. |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
In message
, at 03:47:11 on Mon, 26 Jan 2009, Mizter T remarked: The Northern Ticket Hall opens in December this year, As soon as that? Is it timed to co-incide with the opening of the Kent Domestics. Will all the new escalators/passageways to the tube lines be complete as well? It's almost as if there's a masterplan at work! I think the timing is intended to coincide with the arrival of the Kent high-speed trains at St. P. Although this says 2010 (for the Northern Ticket Hall): http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/proj....aspx#entrance -- Roland Perry |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
On 26 Jan, 11:57, Roland Perry wrote:
Although this says 2010 (for the Northern Ticket Hall) The official date is "February 2010" but they were asked to get it done three months early by the DfT, which they've agreed to. But for whatever political reason TfL's announced date is unchanged. (see also the ELL, which opens "June 2010" but I would bet money will be carrying passengers by the end of this year) U |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
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King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
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King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
wrote: In article , (Mizter T) wrote: On 26 Jan, 00:35, "John Salmon" wrote: Surprisingly, I don't think this has been posted here yet... Posters displayed at King's Cross indicate that the entrance to the Underground from within the main line station concourse - the one more or less opposite platform 7 - which seems to have been there for ever, at least within my recollection, is to close permanently from next Sunday, 1st February. Intriguing. I've found this information on the TfL website: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/proj....aspx#entrance ---quote--- Entrance closure - 1 February 2009 The staircase that leads from within King's Cross mainline station to the Underground will be closed permanently from 1 February 2009. This closure is to enable a lift to be installed to provide step-free access from the ticket hall to the Northern line platforms. This staircase will not re-open, but a new route between King's Cross mainline and the Underground will open nearby when the new Northern ticket hall opens in 2010. Until then, passengers should use the main entrance staircase and lift located outside of King's Cross mainline station, to change between rail and Underground services. ---/quote--- In time the whole focus of King's Cross station is shifting from the present concourse over to the new western concourse, which will open in 2011/ 2012 - in this context the closure of this staircase makes rather more sense. I'm not really all that clued up on the redevelopment of the station, but it seems as though the new northern Tube ticket hall will become the primary entrance to the Underground from the mainline station. This Network Rail webpage provides a rough outline as to the plans, but there's not really enough detail in it: http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/4059.aspx The focus shifting nonsense is a right PITA for real users because it means considerably longer walking routes and the complete lack of a covered route to the Underground in the meantime. Why they don't at least put up a temporary awning on the King's Cross forecourt is beyond me but even that route is a long way round from all the King's ross platforms to the Victoria Line. Just encourages me always to use my bike. "This focus shifting nonsense" is basically the bedrock of the redevelopment plans for King's Cross mainline station, which will entail the concourse being relocated to the western side of the station. By the by I was mistaken when I said the new northern Tube ticket hall would become the primary entrance from the mainline station - there will in fact be an entrance to the existing circular ticket hall via a passageway from the new western concourse. This walking route will be a bit longer, but nothing major. The motivation behind the new western concourse is to provide a less cramped, more spacious station for passengers. Regarding the current arrangement - once the entrance to the Tube station in the middle of the current concourse shuts, there won't as you say be a completely covered route - but it's almost completely covered. Look at this bird's eye view - the building with the 'King's Cross' label imposed on it is actually the (fairly) new wide stairway entrance down into the Tube station. The actual distance between that and the existing canopy is pretty miniscule (the temporary structure that appears in between them is no longer there). Regarding the arrangement encouraging you to use your bike - well, some might well say good, nothing wrong with that, in fact it should be positively encouraged - for a start people opting to go by bike take some pressure off the Tube network. Though you should perhaps note that the small lack of cover from the sky between the mainline station and the Tube entrance somewhat pales into insignificance compared with the lack of cover provided when cycling, what with it being out in the open and all that. I note that the footbridge in the main trainshed was scheduled to be removed over Christmas - I haven't been into KX lately so can't say if this happened or not. It was fun walking over it when it was still open, it was a distinctly forgotten corner of the station. It only gave access to platforms 1 and 8 - was this always the case? I also note that it's being/been taken into storage - any ideas for a new home for it? It went alright. It's even reported in the latest Modern Railways (I think, could be Railway Magazine). OK, thanks for the info, |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
On 26 Jan, 12:27, wrote: In article , (Mizter T) wrote: On 26 Jan, 09:54, Allan wrote: John Salmon wrote: Surprisingly, I don't think this has been posted here yet... Posters displayed at King's Cross indicate that the entrance to the Underground from within the main line station concourse - the one more or less opposite platform 7 - which seems to have been there for ever, at least within my recollection, is to close permanently from next Sunday, 1st February. I may be missing something, but this is a great pity. *It was so easy to get off an arriving train, and straight down the stairs into the underground. Fom 1 Feb, you have through the often crowded station concourse, out of the front of the station, merge in with everyone else coming into the station, and then down the stairs. All this so a lift can be installed. This seems very contrary. Come 2011/2012 when the new western concourse at King's Cross mainline station opens, then things would be changing anyway. I very much doubt that this entrance would be closing now were it not for these major forthcoming changes to the mainline station which will result in the current concourse disappearing. So what you're missing is the bigger picture of how things are to develop at King's Cross - this is just a stage in those developments. The new ticket hall won't change the shortest route to the tube platforms! True. In some earlier comments I mistakenly said that the new northern Tube ticket hall would become the primary entrance to the Tube from the new western concourse - as Roland Perry has pointed out elsewhere on this thread, there will in fact be a new passageway from the western concourse that leads into the existing (main) circular Tube ticket hall next to Euston Road. The exit from platforms 1-8 at the Cross will still be to the area where the concourse is now. There seems to be some dispute over whether passenger will be able to exit the mainline platforms over the footbridge into the western ticket hall or not. If that is to be possible, then there would be a covered route all the way into the Tube station - though yes, one that would involve getting up and then down from the footbridge. The other possibility is that there will be a way to walk around the southern (buffer-end) exits from platforms 1-8 within the station (i.e. under cover) to get round to the western concourse and hence the entrance to the Tube station. This is surely highly likely, as I rather doubt that the buffer-end exits would literally deposit people straight off the train and through the doors into the street. |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
On 26 Jan, 12:42, Mizter T wrote:
There seems to be some dispute over whether passenger will be able to exit the mainline platforms over the footbridge into the western ticket hall or not. They'll have a single down-only escalator and a lift to each platform. The other possibility is that there will be a way to walk around the southern (buffer-end) exits from platforms 1-8 within the station (i.e. under cover) to get round to the western concourse and hence the entrance to the Tube station. There'll be a bi-directional gateline roughly where M&S currently is giving you access to the concourse. A little further south (just outside the building but under the canopy) there'll be a new set of stairs down to the tube station. This is probably the same set Roland mentioned earlier. U |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
In message
, at 04:42:06 on Mon, 26 Jan 2009, Mizter T remarked: The other possibility is that there will be a way to walk around the southern (buffer-end) exits from platforms 1-8 within the station (i.e. under cover) to get round to the western concourse and hence the entrance to the Tube station. This is surely highly likely, as I rather doubt that the buffer-end exits would literally deposit people straight off the train and through the doors into the street. They are currently widening the circulating area inside the "old building" by moving all the buffers about half a carriage-length north, and eventually covering the resulting footprint with a pedestrianised area. This will give a "corridor" from the platform ends westwards to the new National Rail ticket concourse. But when they did a study of the passenger flows at the revamped station, one of the major issues was congestion at the platform-end exits, when it was raining. This seems to assume that most passengers would be heading across the new open air plaza, maybe to the bus stops, or the current "outdoor" entrance to the tube - especially if heading for the Circle Line I think. -- Roland Perry |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
In message
s.com, at 04:53:21 on Mon, 26 Jan 2009, Mr Thant maha.thray.sithu.u.th remarked: There'll be a bi-directional gateline roughly where M&S currently is giving you access to the concourse. And is there an exit-only gateline somewhere? Very close to the edge of the building, perhaps (so that the corridor along the buffers is "airside")? A little further south (just outside the building but under the canopy) there'll be a new set of stairs down to the tube station. This is probably the same set Roland mentioned earlier. There's just one set on the diagram I have, and it's not clear if inside or outside the building. If it's just outside, is it perhaps inside the greenhouse structure visible here just left of the 'clocktower': http://www.e-architect.co.uk/london/...ion_nrail27110 7_2.jpg -- Roland Perry |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
On 26 Jan, 09:54, Allan wrote:
John Salmon wrote: Surprisingly, I don't think this has been posted here yet... Posters displayed at King's Cross indicate that the entrance to the Underground from within the main line station concourse - the one more or less opposite platform 7 - which seems to have been there for ever, at least within my recollection, is to close permanently from next Sunday, 1st February. I may be missing something, but this is a great pity. *It was so easy to get off an arriving train, and straight down the stairs into the underground. ... though you haven't been able to do that in the morning peak (7am to 10am Mon-Fri) for many months now, since the entrance/exit in question is closed during those hours. Fom 1 Feb, you have through the often crowded station concourse, out of the front of the station, merge in with everyone else coming into the station, and then down the stairs. Yes, I have had to do that every mornng for ages. Worse, the entrance in front of the station is always "throttled" during the morning peak (by partially closing the sliding gates) to allow only one person in at a time, leading to a big melee of people outside trying to get in. I often find it easier to cross St Pancras Road and use the entrance inder St Pancras, which is normally unrestricted. PaulO |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
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King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
On 26 Jan, 13:31, Roland Perry wrote:
And is there an exit-only gateline somewhere? Very close to the edge of the building, perhaps (so that the corridor along the buffers is "airside")? The entire front wall of the station. The whole main shed is airside. The whole design does seem to be based on the majority of passengers being sent outdoors as soon as they arrive, which is bonkers. There's just one set on the diagram I have, and it's not clear if inside or outside the building. If it's just outside, is it perhaps inside the greenhouse structure visible here just left of the 'clocktower': Yes. You can see in that picture there's a brick veranda in front of the main front wall, which will be outside the gateline but inside glass doors, so there might be a narrow indoor route to the stairs to the tube station. U |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
On 26 Jan, 12:53, Mr Thant wrote: On 26 Jan, 12:42, Mizter T wrote: There seems to be some dispute over whether passenger will be able to exit the mainline platforms over the footbridge into the western ticket hall or not. They'll have a single down-only escalator and a lift to each platform. The other possibility is that there will be a way to walk around the southern (buffer-end) exits from platforms 1-8 within the station (i.e. under cover) to get round to the western concourse and hence the entrance to the Tube station. There'll be a bi-directional gateline roughly where M&S currently is giving you access to the concourse. A little further south (just outside the building but under the canopy) there'll be a new set of stairs down to the tube station. This is probably the same set Roland mentioned earlier. I've just been having a quick dig around the LB Camden online planning portal. The main planning application number for these works seems to be 2006/3387/P - the summary page can be seen he http://tinyurl.com/dk7lyq. The supporting documents page holds a number of drawings: http://tinyurl.com/cth9rq Within the "Amended drawings" document, on page 1 is a drawing that shows two gatelines leading from the main trainshed - one leads into the western concourse, the other leads south out onto the street - the stairs down into the main (circular) Tube ticket hall that I think are the ones we're all speaking about are also shown underneath an external canopy (or at least I think that's what the drawing shows). Page 6 also shows this in more detail. I haven't entirely figured it out yet, like what route will passengers exiting the Tube take into the Western concourse... ok, so now I'm looking at page 4 of the "Proposed 3" drawings which appears to show a direct exit from the Tube station into the western concourse, right on the westernmost side. And this appears again on pages 8 and 10 - but it looks solely like a link to the deep-level tubes, so I think this is in fact the new northern Tube ticket hall. I'd need to spend a bit of time with these drawings to properly figure it all out. Page 1 of the "Proposed 2 - Part 2" drawings shows the 'green oval' in the Southern Square that Mr Perry speaks of elsewhere is in fact an "LUL vent". And in one of the drawings I noticed that the location of the disused Hotel Curve was marked, but I can't find which one it is now. Anyway should anyone want to look in depth at the plans there's plenty to go from there. As I said, I've only taken a cursory look at them - the whole project is not one that I've looked at in any real detail beforehand. |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
On 26 Jan, 13:54, Mr Thant wrote: On 26 Jan, 13:31, Roland Perry wrote: And is there an exit-only gateline somewhere? Very close to the edge of the building, perhaps (so that the corridor along the buffers is "airside")? The entire front wall of the station. The whole main shed is airside. The whole design does seem to be based on the majority of passengers being sent outdoors as soon as they arrive, which is bonkers. I'm trying to think of other stations that employ a similar arrangement but can't. Is this whole western concourse scheme a bit wonky then? There's just one set on the diagram I have, and it's not clear if inside or outside the building. If it's just outside, is it perhaps inside the greenhouse structure visible here just left of the 'clocktower': Yes. You can see in that picture there's a brick veranda in front of the main front wall, which will be outside the gateline but inside glass doors, so there might be a narrow indoor route to the stairs to the tube station. |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
On 26 Jan, 13:39, Paul Oter wrote: On 26 Jan, 09:54, Allan wrote: John Salmon wrote: Surprisingly, I don't think this has been posted here yet... Posters displayed at King's Cross indicate that the entrance to the Underground from within the main line station concourse - the one more or less opposite platform 7 - which seems to have been there for ever, at least within my recollection, is to close permanently from next Sunday, 1st February. I may be missing something, but this is a great pity. *It was so easy to get off an arriving train, and straight down the stairs into the underground. .. though you haven't been able to do that in the morning peak (7am to 10am Mon-Fri) for many months now, since the entrance/exit in question is closed during those hours. I wonder why this is the case - because it's easier to handle the crowds outside at the new entrance perhaps? Fom 1 Feb, you have through the often crowded station concourse, out of the front of the station, merge in with everyone else coming into the station, and then down the stairs. Yes, I have had to do that every mornng for ages. Worse, the entrance in front of the station is always "throttled" during the morning peak (by partially closing the sliding gates) to allow only one person in at a time, leading to a big melee of people outside trying to get in. I dare say this happens with good reason, that being the crowdedness of the ticket hall. The new northern ticket hall should abate this somewhat. I often find it easier to cross St Pancras Road and use the entrance under St Pancras, which is normally unrestricted. Where there's a will there's a way! |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
On 26 Jan, 13:18, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 04:42:06 on Mon, 26 Jan 2009, Mizter T remarked: The other possibility is that there will be a way to walk around the southern (buffer-end) exits from platforms 1-8 within the station (i.e. under cover) to get round to the western concourse and hence the entrance to the Tube station. This is surely highly likely, as I rather doubt that the buffer-end exits would literally deposit people straight off the train and through the doors into the street. They are currently widening the circulating area inside the "old building" by moving all the buffers about half a carriage-length north, and eventually covering the resulting footprint with a pedestrianised area. This will give a "corridor" from the platform ends westwards to the new National Rail ticket concourse. OK, I see. I'll pop in to have a look at what's going on soon. But when they did a study of the passenger flows at the revamped station, one of the major issues was congestion at the platform-end exits, when it was raining. This seems to assume that most passengers would be heading across the new open air plaza, maybe to the bus stops, or the current "outdoor" entrance to the tube - especially if heading for the Circle Line I think. Interesting. Did anything come of these findings, i.e. modifications to the design? |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
On 26 Jan, 12:29, Mizter T wrote: wrote: In article , (Mizter T) wrote: (snip) In time the whole focus of King's Cross station is shifting from the present concourse over to the new western concourse, which will open in 2011/ 2012 - in this context the closure of this staircase makes rather more sense. I'm not really all that clued up on the redevelopment of the station, but it seems as though the new northern Tube ticket hall will become the primary entrance to the Underground from the mainline station. This Network Rail webpage provides a rough outline as to the plans, but there's not really enough detail in it: http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/4059.aspx The focus shifting nonsense is a right PITA for real users because it means considerably longer walking routes and the complete lack of a covered route to the Underground in the meantime. Why they don't at least put up a temporary awning on the King's Cross forecourt is beyond me but even that route is a long way round from all the King's Cross platforms to the Victoria Line. Just encourages me always to use my bike. "This focus shifting nonsense" is basically the bedrock of the redevelopment plans for King's Cross mainline station, which will entail the concourse being relocated to the western side of the station. (snip) Regarding the current arrangement - once the entrance to the Tube station in the middle of the current concourse shuts, there won't as you say be a completely covered route - but it's almost completely covered. Look at this bird's eye view - the building with the 'King's Cross' label imposed on it is actually the (fairly) new wide stairway entrance down into the Tube station. The actual distance between that and the existing canopy is pretty miniscule (the temporary structure that appears in between them is no longer there). (snip) "This bird's eye view" being the following link that I forgot to include, sorry: http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?cp...scene=12453916 |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
Mr Thant wrote:
(see also the ELL, which opens "June 2010" but I would bet money will be carrying passengers by the end of this year) Incidentally, Network Rail are currently advertising for signallers at New Cross Gate, presumably for the ELL. Cheers, Barry |
King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
In message
, at 06:11:37 on Mon, 26 Jan 2009, Mizter T remarked: The entire front wall of the station. In between the hoops of the arches? Or slightly inside (north) of that. The whole main shed is airside. The whole design does seem to be based on the majority of passengers being sent outdoors as soon as they arrive, which is bonkers. I'm trying to think of other stations that employ a similar arrangement but can't. Is this whole western concourse scheme a bit wonky then? We are looking for stations with not much between the barrier line and the outside world. Luton Airport Parkway's a bit like that. Or slightly more extreme: Loughborough, where the exit from the barriers is straight into the open carpark. -- Roland Perry |
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