"Mizter T" wrote

The other issue is probably future lack of trains to and from
Battersea Park from SLL destinations. I think a good number of people
using Battersea Park via the SLL are actually changing for trains to
Clapham Jn, so the ELLX will provide a direct service. However the big
plans for Battersea Power Station's redevelopment mean that it will
become a centre of employment, so it's a bit of a shame to lose direct
trains there from the SLL. Plus Battersea Park station is obviously
great for getting to Battersea Park itself, which is a rather splendid
park. Passengers will of course be able to change at either Clapham Jn
or Victoria to get to and from Battersea Park, or they could walk or
get a bus from Wandsworth Rd station.

AIUI the SLL platforms at Battersea Park are doomed anyway, as indeed is the
SLL between Wandsworth Road and Battersea Park, as the South London Metro 10
car scheme will involve extending the Down Slow platform across the
junction.

Peter

On 12 Feb, 16:04, "Peter Masson" wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote

The other issue is probably future lack of trains to and from
Battersea Park from SLL destinations. I think a good number of people
using Battersea Park via the SLL are actually changing for trains to
Clapham Jn, so the ELLX will provide a direct service. However the big
plans for Battersea Power Station's redevelopment mean that it will
become a centre of employment, so it's a bit of a shame to lose direct
trains there from the SLL. Plus Battersea Park station is obviously
great for getting to Battersea Park itself, which is a rather splendid
park. Passengers will of course be able to change at either Clapham Jn
or Victoria to get to and from Battersea Park, or they could walk or
get a bus from Wandsworth Rd station.

AIUI the SLL platforms at Battersea Park are doomed anyway, as indeed is the
SLL between Wandsworth Road and Battersea Park, as the South London Metro 10
car scheme will involve extending the Down Slow platform across the
junction.


Yeah, somewhere in the midst of my second lengthy post I did mention
the fact that the platform lengthening plans would sever the SLL/
Atlantic Lines at Battersea Park - I then threw in a query as to
whether these plans will actually reach fruition any time soon, as I
suppose the recession might cast a shadow over it all. The thing with
the RUS modus operadi is that we hear what the planners'
recommendations are, but we never then hear what the masterplan of
action is from DfT Rail (cue hilarity) - thus we're left guessing
whether the new Victoria to Bellingham service will actually
materialise. If I was to guess I'd say it would happen, and that it's
in the DfT's gameplan, but at present it has not yet been finalised. I
wonder how long we'll wait for an announcement - the longer there
isn't one, the more people will wonder whether it's ever going to
happen or not.

It's silly as the DfT could avoid adverse publicity by making an
announcement sooner rather than later, though I suppose it's possible
that they might wait and see if there is any uproar - if there is
they'll react, if there isn't they'll forget about it - in other words
the delay in itself is a kind of sounding board. Perhaps I'm crediting
them with being somewhat more wiley than they actually are!

The other thing about the Victoria - Bellingham service ('SLL2' as
I've called it) that I didn't mention earlier is that it conveniently
runs out of Victoria's less busy eastern side, thus freeing up
platforms in the central side of the station - the South London RUS
highlights this as a benefit of this plan. So the SLL is basically
seen as the weakest link at both London Bridge and Victoria (central),
getting the boot from both of them, though space is then offered up in
Victoria eastern for its SLL2 replacement to Bellingham. Of course
this also precludes a stop at Battersea Park, because trains from the
eastern side of Victoria can't even get on to the central side's
tracks to get to Battersea Park in the first place (and making complex
alterations to enable this would no doubt be unwelcome).

Anyway I didn't really mean to focus so much on the issues surrounding
the oncoming ELLX link to Clapham Jn - I think it's great that it's
happening, it completes the picture of an orbital route around London
- but I don't think it's great because it'll look all neat and tidy on
a map, I think it's great because it'll be genuinely useful.

On Feb 12, 6:23*pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 12 Feb, 16:04, "Peter Masson" wrote:





"Mizter T" wrote

The other issue is probably future lack of trains to and from
Battersea Park from SLL destinations. I think a good number of people
using Battersea Park via the SLL are actually changing for trains to
Clapham Jn, so the ELLX will provide a direct service. However the big
plans for Battersea Power Station's redevelopment mean that it will
become a centre of employment, so it's a bit of a shame to lose direct
trains there from the SLL. Plus Battersea Park station is obviously
great for getting to Battersea Park itself, which is a rather splendid
park. Passengers will of course be able to change at either Clapham Jn
or Victoria to get to and from Battersea Park, or they could walk or
get a bus from Wandsworth Rd station.

AIUI the SLL platforms at Battersea Park are doomed anyway, as indeed is the
SLL between Wandsworth Road and Battersea Park, as the South London Metro 10
car scheme will involve extending the Down Slow platform across the
junction.

Yeah, somewhere in the midst of my second lengthy post I did mention
the fact that the platform lengthening plans would sever the SLL/
Atlantic Lines at Battersea Park - I then threw in a query as to
whether these plans will actually reach fruition any time soon, as I
suppose the recession might cast a shadow over it all. The thing with
the RUS modus operadi is that we hear what the planners'
recommendations are, but we never then hear what the masterplan of
action is from DfT Rail (cue hilarity) - thus we're left guessing
whether the new Victoria to Bellingham service will actually
materialise. If I was to guess I'd say it would happen, and that it's
in the DfT's gameplan, but at present it has not yet been finalised. I
wonder how long we'll wait for an announcement - the longer there
isn't one, the more people will wonder whether it's ever going to
happen or not.

It's silly as the DfT could avoid adverse publicity by making an
announcement sooner rather than later, though I suppose it's possible
that they might wait and see if there is any uproar - if there is
they'll react, if there isn't they'll forget about it - in other words
the delay in itself is a kind of sounding board. Perhaps I'm crediting
them with being somewhat more wiley than they actually are!

The other thing about the Victoria - Bellingham service ('SLL2' as
I've called it) that I didn't mention earlier is that it conveniently
runs out of Victoria's less busy eastern side, thus freeing up
platforms in the central side of the station - the South London RUS
highlights this as a benefit of this plan. So the SLL is basically
seen as the weakest link at both London Bridge and Victoria (central),
getting the boot from both of them, though space is then offered up in
Victoria eastern for its SLL2 replacement to Bellingham. Of course
this also precludes a stop *at Battersea Park, because trains from the
eastern side of Victoria can't even get on to the central side's
tracks to get to Battersea Park in the first place (and making complex
alterations to enable this would no doubt be unwelcome).

I'm sure they can. There's a crossover that can be reached from
platforms 3 - 8, leading to the "Brighton Slow" tracks.

On Feb 12, 6:31*pm, MIG wrote:
On Feb 12, 6:23*pm, Mizter T wrote:





On 12 Feb, 16:04, "Peter Masson" wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote

The other issue is probably future lack of trains to and from
Battersea Park from SLL destinations. I think a good number of people
using Battersea Park via the SLL are actually changing for trains to
Clapham Jn, so the ELLX will provide a direct service. However the big
plans for Battersea Power Station's redevelopment mean that it will
become a centre of employment, so it's a bit of a shame to lose direct
trains there from the SLL. Plus Battersea Park station is obviously
great for getting to Battersea Park itself, which is a rather splendid
park. Passengers will of course be able to change at either Clapham Jn
or Victoria to get to and from Battersea Park, or they could walk or
get a bus from Wandsworth Rd station.

AIUI the SLL platforms at Battersea Park are doomed anyway, as indeed is the
SLL between Wandsworth Road and Battersea Park, as the South London Metro 10
car scheme will involve extending the Down Slow platform across the
junction.

Yeah, somewhere in the midst of my second lengthy post I did mention
the fact that the platform lengthening plans would sever the SLL/
Atlantic Lines at Battersea Park - I then threw in a query as to
whether these plans will actually reach fruition any time soon, as I
suppose the recession might cast a shadow over it all. The thing with
the RUS modus operadi is that we hear what the planners'
recommendations are, but we never then hear what the masterplan of
action is from DfT Rail (cue hilarity) - thus we're left guessing
whether the new Victoria to Bellingham service will actually
materialise. If I was to guess I'd say it would happen, and that it's
in the DfT's gameplan, but at present it has not yet been finalised. I
wonder how long we'll wait for an announcement - the longer there
isn't one, the more people will wonder whether it's ever going to
happen or not.

It's silly as the DfT could avoid adverse publicity by making an
announcement sooner rather than later, though I suppose it's possible
that they might wait and see if there is any uproar - if there is
they'll react, if there isn't they'll forget about it - in other words
the delay in itself is a kind of sounding board. Perhaps I'm crediting
them with being somewhat more wiley than they actually are!

The other thing about the Victoria - Bellingham service ('SLL2' as
I've called it) that I didn't mention earlier is that it conveniently
runs out of Victoria's less busy eastern side, thus freeing up
platforms in the central side of the station - the South London RUS
highlights this as a benefit of this plan. So the SLL is basically
seen as the weakest link at both London Bridge and Victoria (central),
getting the boot from both of them, though space is then offered up in
Victoria eastern for its SLL2 replacement to Bellingham. Of course
this also precludes a stop *at Battersea Park, because trains from the
eastern side of Victoria can't even get on to the central side's
tracks to get to Battersea Park in the first place (and making complex
alterations to enable this would no doubt be unwelcome).

I'm sure they can. *There's a crossover that can be reached from
platforms 3 - 8, leading to the "Brighton Slow" tracks.

(I did your trick of posting before finishing.)

I was going to say that platform 8 is already in regular use by
Southern services (or at least it has been in recent years).

On 12 Feb, 18:31, MIG wrote:

On Feb 12, 6:23*pm, Mizter T wrote:

(snip)

The other thing about the Victoria - Bellingham service ('SLL2' as
I've called it) that I didn't mention earlier is that it conveniently
runs out of Victoria's less busy eastern side, thus freeing up
platforms in the central side of the station - the South London RUS
highlights this as a benefit of this plan. So the SLL is basically
seen as the weakest link at both London Bridge and Victoria (central),
getting the boot from both of them, though space is then offered up in
Victoria eastern for its SLL2 replacement to Bellingham. Of course
this also precludes a stop *at Battersea Park, because trains from the
eastern side of Victoria can't even get on to the central side's
tracks to get to Battersea Park in the first place (and making complex
alterations to enable this would no doubt be unwelcome).

I'm sure they can. *There's a crossover that can be reached from
platforms 3 - 8, leading to the "Brighton Slow" tracks.


I dithered before writing that and in retrospect it's silly - I know
full well that there's a connection as platform 8 is served by both
Southeastern and Southern trains. However I though that was the only
one eastern side platform - platform 8 - that could access the central
side's tracks (perhaps I should actually be talking about eastern and
central divisions - sounds a bit like a yankee sports league!). It's
highly likely I'm wrong!

Therefore I suppose it is possible that the replacement 'SLL2' service
to Bellingham could call at Battersea Park at least until the
platforms get extended there (if they ever do). Not sure if a four car
Networker could go down that way though, and if it did whether it
would fit on the platform at Battersea Park.

On Feb 12, 6:44*pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 12 Feb, 18:31, MIG wrote:





On Feb 12, 6:23*pm, Mizter T wrote:

(snip)

The other thing about the Victoria - Bellingham service ('SLL2' as
I've called it) that I didn't mention earlier is that it conveniently
runs out of Victoria's less busy eastern side, thus freeing up
platforms in the central side of the station - the South London RUS
highlights this as a benefit of this plan. So the SLL is basically
seen as the weakest link at both London Bridge and Victoria (central),
getting the boot from both of them, though space is then offered up in
Victoria eastern for its SLL2 replacement to Bellingham. Of course
this also precludes a stop *at Battersea Park, because trains from the
eastern side of Victoria can't even get on to the central side's
tracks to get to Battersea Park in the first place (and making complex
alterations to enable this would no doubt be unwelcome).

I'm sure they can. *There's a crossover that can be reached from
platforms 3 - 8, leading to the "Brighton Slow" tracks.

I dithered before writing that and in retrospect it's silly - I know
full well that there's a connection as platform 8 is served by both
Southeastern and Southern trains. However I though that was the only
one eastern side platform - platform 8 - that could access the central
side's tracks (perhaps I should actually be talking about eastern and
central divisions - sounds a bit like a yankee sports league!). It's
highly likely I'm wrong!

Therefore I suppose it is possible that the replacement 'SLL2' service
to Bellingham could call at Battersea Park at least until the
platforms get extended there (if they ever do). Not sure if a four car
Networker could go down that way though, and if it did whether it
would fit on the platform at Battersea Park.

It could be run by 319s ...

On Feb 12, 6:44*pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 12 Feb, 18:31, MIG wrote:





On Feb 12, 6:23*pm, Mizter T wrote:

(snip)

The other thing about the Victoria - Bellingham service ('SLL2' as
I've called it) that I didn't mention earlier is that it conveniently
runs out of Victoria's less busy eastern side, thus freeing up
platforms in the central side of the station - the South London RUS
highlights this as a benefit of this plan. So the SLL is basically
seen as the weakest link at both London Bridge and Victoria (central),
getting the boot from both of them, though space is then offered up in
Victoria eastern for its SLL2 replacement to Bellingham. Of course
this also precludes a stop *at Battersea Park, because trains from the
eastern side of Victoria can't even get on to the central side's
tracks to get to Battersea Park in the first place (and making complex
alterations to enable this would no doubt be unwelcome).

I'm sure they can. *There's a crossover that can be reached from
platforms 3 - 8, leading to the "Brighton Slow" tracks.

I dithered before writing that and in retrospect it's silly - I know
full well that there's a connection as platform 8 is served by both
Southeastern and Southern trains. However I though that was the only
one eastern side platform - platform 8 - that could access the central
side's tracks (perhaps I should actually be talking about eastern and
central divisions - sounds a bit like a yankee sports league!). It's
highly likely I'm wrong!


I don't think that platform 8 is regularly used by Southeastern
trains. It is accessed by from the Southern gateline and there is a
gate between it and platform 7. Physically, the pointwork allows all
of platforms 3-8 access to/from the 'Brighton' lines at Victoria
(rather than via Stewarts Lane), but I can't remember if the
signalling allows it.

"Andy" wrote

I don't think that platform 8 is regularly used by Southeastern
trains. It is accessed by from the Southern gateline and there is a
gate between it and platform 7. Physically, the pointwork allows all
of platforms 3-8 access to/from the 'Brighton' lines at Victoria
(rather than via Stewarts Lane), but I can't remember if the
signalling allows it.

IIRC platform 8 has its own gates, and can't be accessed through the gates
to any other platform. It has at least until quite recently been used by
Southeastern trains. Time was, of course, when it was a full length
platform, and regularly used by - and specifically labelled for - the Golden
Arrow.

Peter

"Andy" wrote in message
...
On Feb 12, 6:44 pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 12 Feb, 18:31, MIG wrote:





On Feb 12, 6:23 pm, Mizter T wrote:

(snip)

The other thing about the Victoria - Bellingham service ('SLL2' as
I've called it) that I didn't mention earlier is that it conveniently
runs out of Victoria's less busy eastern side, thus freeing up
platforms in the central side of the station - the South London RUS
highlights this as a benefit of this plan. So the SLL is basically
seen as the weakest link at both London Bridge and Victoria (central),
getting the boot from both of them, though space is then offered up in
Victoria eastern for its SLL2 replacement to Bellingham. Of course
this also precludes a stop at Battersea Park, because trains from the
eastern side of Victoria can't even get on to the central side's
tracks to get to Battersea Park in the first place (and making complex
alterations to enable this would no doubt be unwelcome).

I'm sure they can. There's a crossover that can be reached from
platforms 3 - 8, leading to the "Brighton Slow" tracks.

I dithered before writing that and in retrospect it's silly - I know
full well that there's a connection as platform 8 is served by both
Southeastern and Southern trains. However I though that was the only
one eastern side platform - platform 8 - that could access the central
side's tracks (perhaps I should actually be talking about eastern and
central divisions - sounds a bit like a yankee sports league!). It's
highly likely I'm wrong!


I don't think that platform 8 is regularly used by Southeastern
trains. It is accessed by from the Southern gateline and there is a
gate between it and platform 7. Physically, the pointwork allows all
of platforms 3-8 access to/from the 'Brighton' lines at Victoria
(rather than via Stewarts Lane), but I can't remember if the
signalling allows it.

It certainly does.

Up Brighton Slow VC532
Theatre Light
Platforms 3 to 15



Position Light
Calling on

On Feb 12, 8:23*pm, Andy wrote:
On Feb 12, 6:44*pm, Mizter T wrote:





On 12 Feb, 18:31, MIG wrote:

On Feb 12, 6:23*pm, Mizter T wrote:

(snip)

The other thing about the Victoria - Bellingham service ('SLL2' as
I've called it) that I didn't mention earlier is that it conveniently
runs out of Victoria's less busy eastern side, thus freeing up
platforms in the central side of the station - the South London RUS
highlights this as a benefit of this plan. So the SLL is basically
seen as the weakest link at both London Bridge and Victoria (central),
getting the boot from both of them, though space is then offered up in
Victoria eastern for its SLL2 replacement to Bellingham. Of course
this also precludes a stop *at Battersea Park, because trains from the
eastern side of Victoria can't even get on to the central side's
tracks to get to Battersea Park in the first place (and making complex
alterations to enable this would no doubt be unwelcome).

I'm sure they can. *There's a crossover that can be reached from
platforms 3 - 8, leading to the "Brighton Slow" tracks.

I dithered before writing that and in retrospect it's silly - I know
full well that there's a connection as platform 8 is served by both
Southeastern and Southern trains. However I though that was the only
one eastern side platform - platform 8 - that could access the central
side's tracks (perhaps I should actually be talking about eastern and
central divisions - sounds a bit like a yankee sports league!). It's
highly likely I'm wrong!

I don't think that platform 8 is regularly used by Southeastern
trains. It is accessed by from the Southern gateline and *there is a
gate between it and platform 7. Physically, the pointwork allows all
of platforms 3-8 access to/from the 'Brighton' lines at Victoria
(rather than via Stewarts Lane), but I can't remember if the
signalling allows it.-

My experience is that it's used more by Southeastern than Southern,
and it actually has its own gateline, because there's a very big wall
between it and platform 9.

In fact it's a horrible bottleneck. If you arrive at platform 8 in
the peak (as I've done on Southeastern trains many times) in anything
other than the first couple of coaches, it's best to walk towards the
back and then down platform 7.