If Clapham Junction to Canary Wharf really is going to be faster than
the via Waterloo route, I think it'll do the line more bad than good
because it will be absolutely packed from opening.

On Feb 16, 8:47*pm, sweek wrote:
If Clapham Junction to Canary Wharf really is going to be faster than
the via Waterloo route, I think it'll do the line more bad than good
because it will be absolutely packed from opening.

Well, if it becomes packed it might just justify longer trains then

Jamie Thompson wrote:
On Feb 16, 8:47 pm, sweek wrote:
If Clapham Junction to Canary Wharf really is going to be faster than
the via Waterloo route, I think it'll do the line more bad than good
because it will be absolutely packed from opening.

Well, if it becomes packed it might just justify longer trains then

Difficult to have longer trains without a total rebuild of Surrey Quays,
Wapping, and Rotherhithe at least. Which would be on the far too difficult
list unless I'm mistaken. SDO would not be practical in the core part of
the route, so it has been proposed in the past that the deep stations would
close rather than be lengthened.

Paul

On Feb 16, 8:47*pm, sweek wrote:
If Clapham Junction to Canary Wharf really is going to be faster than
the via Waterloo route, I think it'll do the line more bad than good
because it will be absolutely packed from opening.

Sweek,

Surely the ELLX from Clapham Junction to Canada Water will be faster
than going into Waterloo and then changing to the Jubilee line - I
mean, the trains all slow down in rush hour in the morning coming into
Waterloo because they have to find an empty platform. And then you've
got that quarter-mile hike to the Jubilee line amongst great masses of
humanity, and then you're on an Underground line which runs slower
than a BR train. But even if it were the same speed, people will
still opt for the ELLX because of the sweat factor, i.e. if you are on
the ELLX then you will be on an air-conditioned train car, and you
won't have to get sweated up in the summer by doing the hike to the
Jubilee line. I agree with you - the ELLX will be jam-packed from Day
One. And that doesn't even consider the fact that if you are
travelling from Clapham Junction to Liverpool Street station that the
ELLX would be a HUGE advantage of the current method of getting there
(i.e. slow train into Waterloo, hike to Waterloo to City line, wait in
line, sweat yourself out while you take the tube to Bank, then you've
got to get to Liverpool Street station on the Central line - makes
more sense to just take the ELLX to Shoreditch - while sitting down
and in an air-conditioned car all the way. I tell you, it will be jam-
packed from Day One. Given that there will only be 4tph, I figure
there won't be any room to get on the ELLX by the first stop it makes
(Queenstown Road) - after all, nobody is going to get OFF at
Queenstown Road. It will be mayhem. And bankers and yuppies will
finally consider the Clapham Junction area to be commutable to the
City, so more of those people (like me) will live in the area and that
will make it even worse. I plan to continue bicycling to Canary Wharf.

wrote:

...... Given that there will only be 4tph, I figure
there won't be any room to get on the ELLX by the first stop it makes
(Queenstown Road) - after all, nobody is going to get OFF at
Queenstown Road.

You haven't got the route right - a train leaving CJ for the SLL can't go
through Queenstown Rd, it will have taken the route from CJ Platform 2 down
and under the SW lines and will approach Wansworth Rd via Longhedge
Junctions, the lines on the other side of the SW lines (and underneath the
lines into Victoria).

Paul S

Yes, I stand corrrected - I should have said "Wandsworth Road" and not
"Queenstown Road" (I don't know these stops very well because I don't
use any trains from Clapham Junction to work at the moment) - I WILL
try it out when it first opens in 2012. If I can get a seat each
morning, I will ditch my bicycle and go from Clapham Junction to
Canada Water and then to Canary Wharf.

Sorry for the mistake.

On Feb 16, 9:49*pm, wrote:
On Feb 16, 8:47*pm, sweek wrote:

If Clapham Junction to Canary Wharf really is going to be faster than
the via Waterloo route, I think it'll do the line more bad than good
because it will be absolutely packed from opening.

Sweek,

makes
more sense to just take the ELLX to Shoreditch - while sitting down
and in an air-conditioned car all the way.

Sitting? Have you seen the interior layout?

http://www.railwayherald.co.uk/issue...148.pdf#page=5

On Feb 16, 11:13*pm, EE507 wrote:
On Feb 16, 9:49*pm, wrote:

On Feb 16, 8:47*pm, sweek wrote:

If Clapham Junction to Canary Wharf really is going to be faster than
the via Waterloo route, I think it'll do the line more bad than good
because it will be absolutely packed from opening.

Sweek,

makes
more sense to just take the ELLX to Shoreditch - while sitting down
and in an air-conditioned car all the way.

Sitting? Have you seen the interior layout?

http://www.railwayherald.co.uk/issue...148.pdf#page=5

Man, that's a stinker. Obviously, what is going to happen, is, just
after the last train leaves, people are going to begin gathering at
EXACTLY the right places on the Clapham Junction platform where they
KNOW the door opens, in order to be one of the first ones in to grab a
seat, thus, in order to get a seat the whole way from Clapham to
Shoreditch/Canada Water, one will have to spend 15 minutes standing
anyway (either in the heat, or the freezing cold) - and to get the
seat, one would have to add almost 15 minutes to one's journey (to
make sure you get there in time for when the prior train leaves. What
a stinker! My guess is, the planners knew from the get-go that 4tph
just wouldn't cut it - that that's basically a token service, and that
it is going to be jam-packed from Day One, starting at the first
station (Clapham Junction), so they took out as many seats as possible
in order to pack as many people in like sardines. Looks like I'm
going to stick with bicycling to Canary Wharf - at lesat that way I
get a seat to sit on the whole way.

wrote

My guess is, the planners knew from the get-go that 4tph
just wouldn't cut it - that that's basically a token service, and that
it is going to be jam-packed from Day One, starting at the first
station (Clapham Junction), so they took out as many seats as possible
in order to pack as many people in like sardines. Looks like I'm
going to stick with bicycling to Canary Wharf - at lesat that way I
get a seat to sit on the whole way.

The existing SLL serevice (Victoria - London Bridge) is half-hourly with
2-coach trains, and even in the peaks most passengers get a seat. I am sure
that the ELLX phase 2b service will be well used, but I wouldn't expect it
to be jam-packed. Off-peak everyone who wants one will get a seat, with
plenty of space for bikes and buggies, while in the peaks passengers who
have to stand will, I would expect, have a reasonable space.

It won't be anything like the quickest route from Clapham Junction to Canary
Wharf (via Canada Water) or the City (via Whitechapel or walk from
Shoreditch High Street) - going via Wazterloo will be much quicker - though
the ELLX route will avoid a Zone 1 fare.

Peter

On Feb 17, 9:48*am, "Peter Masson" wrote:
wrote

My guess is, the planners knew from the get-go that 4tph
just wouldn't cut it - that that's basically a token service, and that
it is going to be jam-packed from Day One, starting at the first
station (Clapham Junction), so they took out as many seats as possible
in order to pack as many people in like sardines. *Looks like I'm
going to stick with bicycling to Canary Wharf - at lesat that way I
get a seat to sit on the whole way.

The existing SLL serevice (Victoria - London Bridge) is half-hourly with
2-coach trains, and even in the peaks most passengers get a seat. I am sure
that the ELLX phase 2b service will be well used, but I wouldn't expect it
to be jam-packed. Off-peak everyone who wants one will get a seat, with
plenty of space for bikes and buggies, while in the peaks passengers who
have to stand will, I would expect, have a reasonable space.

It won't be anything like the quickest route from Clapham Junction to Canary
Wharf (via Canada Water) or the City (via Whitechapel or walk from
Shoreditch High Street) - going via Wazterloo will be much quicker - though
the ELLX route will avoid a Zone 1 fare.

Peter

Peter, I wouldn't even begin to compare the current Victoria - London
Bridge service to the ELLX phase 2. And the Victoria - London Bridge
Service was almost NEVER used by commuters going to Canary Wharf - I
should know, because I live within walking distance of Battersea
Bridge station and so I checked it out a couple of times to get to
Canary Wharf. This was my experience: Lovely ride from Battersea
Bridge to London Bridge - always got a seat - passenger cars fairly
empty most of the way (this alone told me that it wasn't being used by
City/Canary Wharf commuters - if not, where were they???). But then I
got to London Bridge . . . . . . . a HUGE hike to the Jubilee line.
Packed to the gills. Sometimes couldn't get one first train. Stuffy
standing-up ride for two stops to get to Canada Water (where the ELLX
will meet), and then the final leg to Canary Wharf. I said, "Never
again" and took to my bicycle. Oh, and because it was a half-hourly
service, if you missed the train . . . . . well, you had to wait a
half hour for the next one (made more sense at that point to take the
next train to Victoria and then hop on a District/Circle line to
Westminster and then once again get on that jam-packed Jubilee line.
Peter, I can assure you, no banker used that Victoria - London Bridge
half-hourly service to get to the City/Canary Wharf.

As for the fastest route being to go direct into Waterloo . . . . . I
can see that being true for somebody who is already on a Waterloo-
bound train (say, he is travelling in from Esher in Surrey), then,
sure, it doesn't make sense for him to get off his Waterloo-bound
train and wait for another train (the ELLX) - that makes no sense.
But for somebody who lives around Clapham Junction, it makes more
sense to arrive in time to board the new ELLX and go direct to the
City/Canada Water. Also depends on where you work in the City. If
you work at the huge Broadgate complex, or anywhere along Bishopsgate,
the ELLX will make the most sense. Obviously, if you work near the
Bank entrance, then the Waterloo & City line might make more sense.
But most of the big banks are centered around Broadgate/Bishopsgate,
and the whole Waterloo route is a nightmare (trains slow down coming
into Waterloo, then you disembark in a huge crowd and have to stand in
a huge queue for the Waterloo & City line and it's never pleasant
being packed together like sardines like that, and then there is
another crush of people at the Bank end of things. I shudder whenever
I think about it - I did enough times to chuck it in and get on my
bicycle. Again, I'm just speaking for someone who lives near Clapham
Junction - obviously for someone living in Esher or Richmond,
bicycling in is not an option. I still think the ELLX phase 2 will be
packed full starting at Clapham Junction - the appeal of being able to
just take one train (no exhanges to other trains) - and an air-
conditioned train - all the way to either the City (Shoreditch), or
Canada Water (just 1 stop from Canary Wharf) has enormous appeal. I
think the ELLX is a wonderful gift to those of us who live near
Clapham Junction.