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Oyster travel cap (z2-6 ) if travel is within 2-6 but fare is via Z1(UPDATED !!!)
This is especially for Mizter T but I hope that it may be of benefit
to others. You may recall my proposed journey Greenford - Camden Road via Shepherd's Bush (London Overground), nor crossing into Z1 and the availability of my z2-6 YPRC cap on Oyster. I was told that perhaps breaking my journey at White City may force the cap. Well here is what happened. I had to go to Stratford to meet some friends first. Greenford - White City (Central Line ) = £1.10 Shepherd's Bush - Stratford ( London Overground, changing at Willesden Junction) = £2.20 Stratford - Camden Road ( London Overground) = £1.10 TOTAL = £4.40 [Z2-6 CAP = £3.00] I had thought that going from ShepB to Stratford via LO would have resulted in my fare being capped, obviously this did not happen. I was also charged for the Stratford - Camden Road journey. I queried this with Ticket Staff and they said that to get from Shepherd's Bush to Stratford I must have gone through Z1 and that I was going to reach my cap for the day when my Oyster usage reached £5.80 ( 1-6 cap). When I said I used LO via Willesden Junction and did not travel through Z1 they were flummoxed and said I should ring Customer Service. So can we conclude that Shepherds Bush (LO /WLL/NLL) - Stratford is a via Zone 1 journey / fare even though the obvious route of choice is not via the central line ( ie via z1) but via WLL/NLL ? Unfair ? Incorrect ? Salamatsys ! |
Oyster travel cap (z2-6 ) if travel is within 2-6 but fare is viaZ1 (UPDATED !!!)
On Feb 15, 11:23*am, wrote:
This is especially for Mizter T but I hope that it may be of benefit to others. You may recall my proposed journey Greenford - Camden *Road via Shepherd's Bush (London *Overground), nor crossing into *Z1 and the availability of my z2-6 YPRC cap on Oyster. * I was told that perhaps breaking my journey at *White City may force the cap. Well here is what happened. I had to go to Stratford to meet some friends first. Greenford - White City (Central Line ) = £1.10 Shepherd's Bush - Stratford ( London Overground, changing at Willesden Junction) = £2.20 Stratford - Camden *Road ( London Overground) = £1.10 TOTAL = £4.40 [Z2-6 CAP = £3.00] I had thought that going from ShepB to *Stratford via LO would have resulted in my fare being capped, obviously this did not happen. I was also charged for the Stratford - Camden Road journey. I queried this with Ticket Staff and they said that to get from Shepherd's Bush to Stratford I must have gone through Z1 and that I was going to reach my cap for the day when my Oyster usage reached £5.80 ( 1-6 cap). When I said I used LO via Willesden Junction and did not travel through Z1 they were flummoxed and said I should ring Customer Service. So *can we conclude that Shepherds Bush (LO /WLL/NLL) - Stratford is a via Zone 1 journey / fare *even though the obvious route of choice is not via the central *line ( ie via z1) but via WLL/NLL ? Unfair ? Incorrect ? Salamatsys ! If I interpreted that right, it means that the reader at Shepherds Bush LO is programmed to be the same as the reader at Shepherds Bush Central Line, despite being a separate building and it not being possible to reach the Central Line from it. That does seem to be unfair. |
Oyster travel cap (z2-6 ) if travel is within 2-6 but fare is viaZ1 (UPDATED !!!)
On 15 Feb, 11:23, wrote: This is especially for Mizter T but I hope that it may be of benefit to others. You may recall my proposed journey Greenford - Camden *Road via Shepherd's Bush (London *Overground), nor crossing into *Z1 and the availability of my z2-6 YPRC cap on Oyster. * I was told that perhaps breaking my journey at *White City may force the cap. Well here is what happened. I had to go to Stratford to meet some friends first. Greenford - White City (Central Line ) = £1.10 Shepherd's Bush - Stratford ( London Overground, changing at Willesden Junction) = £2.20 Stratford - Camden *Road ( London Overground) = £1.10 TOTAL = £4.40 [Z2-6 CAP = £3.00] I had thought that going from ShepB to *Stratford via LO would have resulted in my fare being capped, obviously this did not happen. I was also charged for the Stratford - Camden Road journey. I queried this with Ticket Staff and they said that to get from Shepherd's Bush to Stratford I must have gone through Z1 and that I was going to reach my cap for the day when my Oyster usage reached £5.80 ( 1-6 cap). When I said I used LO via Willesden Junction and did not travel through Z1 they were flummoxed and said I should ring Customer Service. So *can we conclude that Shepherds Bush (LO /WLL/NLL) - Stratford is a via Zone 1 journey / fare *even though the obvious route of choice is not via the central *line ( ie via z1) but via WLL/NLL ? Unfair ? Incorrect ? Yes, you can conclude that a Shepherd's Bush (LO/ WLL) to Stratford journey is assumed to be via zone 1. I can tell you this because that's what the TfL Fare finder tells me - specifically that the fare from "Shepherd's Bush [London Overground]" to "Stratford" is either £2.70 peak or £2.20 off-peak, and those are the zone 1-3 fares. TfL Fare finder: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/fa...09/farefinder/ And yes, I do think it's daft. My guess as to why this is the case is that perhaps both Shepherd's Bush Central line and WLL stations are treated as kind of being the same station on the Oyster database, either because the architecture of the Oyster database means this is required (in order to maintain the out-of-station interchange) or because it hasn't been thought through well enough. If it is the former problem - that the system can't cope with it - then I'd hope that the upcoming upgrade to the whole Oyster PAYG system would resolve that. If you look at the TfL fare finder you'll see that "Shepherd's Bush [London Overground]" to "Camden Road" is charged at £1.10 (both peak and off-peak) - therefore if you had broken your journey at White City and travelled on from Shepherd's Bush (LO/WLL) only as far as Camden Road then I'm confident you'd be in line for the zone 2-6 cap of £4.60 (or £3.00 with a Railcard). Going to Stratford unfortunately pushes it over the edge to a via z1 fare. I suppose you could try writing to Oyster customer services about this - not the Shepherd's Bush out-of-station interchange issue (best to keep it simple) but just the fact that journeys from Shepherd's Bush (LO/WLL) to Stratford fares are charged as being via z1 even when you travel on the NLL. |
Oyster travel cap (z2-6 ) if travel is within 2-6 but fare is viaZ1 (UPDATED !!!)
Mizter T wrote: On 15 Feb, 11:23, wrote: This is especially for Mizter T but I hope that it may be of benefit to others. You may recall my proposed journey Greenford - Camden Road via Shepherd's Bush (London Overground), nor crossing into Z1 and the availability of my z2-6 YPRC cap on Oyster. I was told that perhaps breaking my journey at White City may force the cap. Well here is what happened. I had to go to Stratford to meet some friends first. Greenford - White City (Central Line ) = £1.10 Shepherd's Bush - Stratford ( London Overground, changing at Willesden Junction) = £2.20 Stratford - Camden Road ( London Overground) = £1.10 TOTAL = £4.40 [Z2-6 CAP = £3.00] I had thought that going from ShepB to Stratford via LO would have resulted in my fare being capped, obviously this did not happen. I was also charged for the Stratford - Camden Road journey. I queried this with Ticket Staff and they said that to get from Shepherd's Bush to Stratford I must have gone through Z1 and that I was going to reach my cap for the day when my Oyster usage reached £5.80 ( 1-6 cap). When I said I used LO via Willesden Junction and did not travel through Z1 they were flummoxed and said I should ring Customer Service. So can we conclude that Shepherds Bush (LO /WLL/NLL) - Stratford is a via Zone 1 journey / fare even though the obvious route of choice is not via the central line ( ie via z1) but via WLL/NLL ? Unfair ? Incorrect ? Yes, you can conclude that a Shepherd's Bush (LO/ WLL) to Stratford journey is assumed to be via zone 1. I can tell you this because that's what the TfL Fare finder tells me - specifically that the fare from "Shepherd's Bush [London Overground]" to "Stratford" is either £2.70 peak or £2.20 off-peak, and those are the zone 1-3 fares. TfL Fare finder: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/fa...09/farefinder/ (snip) If you look at the TfL fare finder you'll see that "Shepherd's Bush [London Overground]" to "Camden Road" is charged at £1.10 (both peak and off-peak) - therefore if you had broken your journey at White City and travelled on from Shepherd's Bush (LO/WLL) only as far as Camden Road then I'm confident you'd be in line for the zone 2-6 cap of £4.60 (or £3.00 with a Railcard). Going to Stratford unfortunately pushes it over the edge to a via z1 fare. (snip) I'm not quite up to speed today! There's nothing wrong in what I said in the above post (apart perhaps from it being too verbose! - you'll see I've snipped some of what I quoted), however I failed to think of something really obvious! If you wanted to break a Shepherd's Bush to Stratford journey to ensure you only paid zone 2&3 fares and thus qualified for the z2-6 cap, at Willesden Jn station where you have to change from the WLL to the NLL train you could simply exit and then re-enter the station, i.e. go out of the gates and then back in them. This would mean you would pay for a Shepherd's Bush [LO] to Willesden Jn fare (zone 2), and then a separate Willesden Jn to Stratford fare (zone 2&3). On the way from Shepherd's Bush to Stratford one has a 17 minute wait for the next eastbound NLL train, so that's plenty of time for such things. Going the other way, from Stratford to Shepherd's Bush, one might have a tighter 6 minutes to do this in (or otherwise 21 minutes - the NLL is every 15 mins, the WLL is half-hourly, so it depends which NLL train you catch). However in my book that's more than enough time as long as you don't dilly dally when you get there (though this is all assuming that the NLL and WLL is running to time, perhaps a bad assumption to make!). Anyway, in the case of your example, you might only be coming back west from Camden Road, unless you go with your friends to Stratford and then come back on yourself. Note - all the times given are for middle of the day journeys, things are different late evening (when the NLL is ever 20 mins) and Sundays (when the NLL is half-hourly), so don't rely on me and check them first [1]. If you don't want people to think you're mad by exiting and then immediately re-entering the station, then Willesden Jn has two entrances with two separate gatelines - if you've enough time (and 6 minutes is not enough unless you run!) you could leave from one exit and re-enter the station through its other entrance. I realise this journey is now sounding like a real palaver - exit the Central line at White City, walk to Shepherd's Bush, exit and then re- enter Willesden Jn station! Which led me on to another thought... Forget about the WLL altogether! At White City you're not actually that far from Willesden Junction, and there is a frequent bus route, the 220, that goes from Wood Lane (the road directly outside White City station) up to Willesden Jn - it runs every 6-10 mins and is scheduled to take 11 minutes to get to the eastern side way entrance to Willesden Jn station (off Harlesden High Street), or otherwise 14 minutes to get to the western (main) entrance. You can see the 220 on this map of bus routes from White City - it goes from bus stop WE opposite the station entrance: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/gettingaro...field-2447.pdf This is the bus route map around Willesden Jn - the eastern side entrance to the station is I think right next to bus stop H, the one that's named "Harrow Road/ Scrubs Lane": http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/gettingaro...ation-2301.pdf Alternatively stay on the bus to arrive at the main station entrance on Station Approach. By the by the side entrance is actually quite useful, as the buses can get a but stuck in traffic going through Harlesden to get to the main station entrance, though the side way in is possibly somewhere you might want to avoid at night. This bird's eye view shows where it is in relation to Harlesden High Street (which the map incorrectly labels as Harrow Road) - the bus stop is just on the bridge, the entrance is down those stairs off the bridge and then pan the map to the west/ left and you'll come to the station: http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?cp...&style=b&lvl=2 I think there could well be something in this route - the WLL service is after all only half-hourly (this is set to improve in the future, but not quite yet) so you might end up waiting around for a long time at Shepherd's Bush, only to have to wait around for longer at Willesden Jn. The 220 meanwhile is a decent and direct bus route - there's also the 228 that links White City with Willesden Jn though it does look as if it goes round the houses a bit. I'd say this route would likely provide a better chance of catching an eastbound NLL train from Willesden Jn earlier than if one was to go via Shepherd's Bush, resulting in a quicker end-to-end journey. And of course it would qualify for the z2-6 cap too! ---------- [1] If you haven't come across it before this is a good site for train times - all the information comes directly from the National Rail journey planner but is presented in a more basic less flashy way: http://traintimes.org.uk/ |
Oyster travel cap (z2-6 ) if travel is within 2-6 but fare is viaZ1 (UPDATED !!!)
On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:45:33 -0000, Mizter T wrote:
Mizter T wrote: On 15 Feb, 11:23, wrote: This is especially for Mizter T but I hope that it may be of benefit to others. You may recall my proposed journey Greenford - Camden Road via Shepherd's Bush (London Overground) [to avoid zone 1] Forget about the WLL altogether! At White City you're not actually that far from Willesden Junction, and there is a frequent bus route, the 220, that goes from Wood Lane If we're getting a bus, might I suggest alighting at North Acton and getting a 266 (Stop Z towards Brent Cross) for the 5 min journey to Willesden Junction. -- Fig |
Oyster travel cap (z2-6 ) if travel is within 2-6 but fare is viaZ1 (UPDATED !!!)
On 16 Feb, 02:26, Fig wrote: On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:45:33 -0000, Mizter T wrote: Mizter T wrote: On 15 Feb, 11:23, wrote: This is especially for Mizter T but I hope that it may be of benefit to others. You may recall my proposed journey Greenford - Camden *Road via Shepherd's Bush (London *Overground) [to avoid zone 1] Forget about the WLL altogether! At White City you're not actually that far from Willesden Junction, and there is a frequent bus route, the 220, that goes from Wood Lane If we're getting a bus, might I suggest alighting at North Acton and * getting a 266 (Stop Z towards Brent Cross) for the 5 min journey to * Willesden Junction. Fair enough - I'd thought about walking between either North Acton or East Acton (Central line) and South Acton (NLL) but hadn't looked into the bus situation. The 266 is of course one of west London's trunk routes so it offers a good, frequent service too. What's more is that is goes straight up Old Oak Lane which is next to the main western entrance to the station (stop L), so no need to walk down the pathway from the eastern side way in either. And it is indeed literally a 5 minute journey, so says the timetable, with buses "every 5-9 minutes" [1]. Excellent stuff Fig, thanks for that. ---------- [1] This unofficial website offers the full (non-simplified) timetables of all bus routes in London, should one want the exact timings of when a bus is supposed to be running: http://www.londonbusroutes.net/ |
Oyster travel cap (z2-6 ) if travel is within 2-6 but fare is via
Gentlemen,
Thank you so much for the most excellent and very useful information. Some of the fare & journey calculations seem to have changed perhaps for the better or worse ? Expanding on what Mizter T said about changing at Willesden J and touching out and then in again. Well, in the past I have touched out and then back in again in quick succession, at several different stations and this has not registered on my card, e.g. last year I travelled from Camden Road - Stratford ( via LO) , touched out at Stratford for less than 5 minutes, met a friend, touched in again and we both continued on to Mile End. Inspection of my Oyster usage showed that I was charged for Camden Road - Mile End journey, with no reference to Stratford. Hence, on Saturday's journey I thought perhaps such quick touching out and back in to try to force a z2-6 cap ( at both Willesden J and Stratford) would not count as a journey. I have read other examples where passengers have quickly got out of a station to pick up some dry cleaning or shopping, touched back in again within a space of 0-15 mins and not been charged for this break of journey nor has this break been registered /noted on their Oyster usage. On Saturday my assumptions of past experiences were wrong. Touching out and back in at Stratford ( I was outside Stratford for less than 2 mins) did now register as a journey as would have doing the same at WJ. Consequently, I was charged a separate Stratford - Camden Rd fare, which on last years experience I may have not been charged. Also last year Willesden Junction - Stratford was priced as a via Z1 fare. I think there was a lot of debate over this and other NLL/WLL//LO oyster pricing of fares in another forum. ( courtesy of Yorkie(?) ) Mizter T. I caught the 12.17 from SB to WJ and had a 2 min wait at WJ for the 12.29 train to Stratford. I think I may have been cutting it short if I attempted touching out and then back in again ! Just as a footnote. Just after Xmas I was wrongly charged for a South Ruislip - Clapham Junction ( via Central line and changing at Shepherd's Bush onto LO to CJ). I was charged double the fare but was recently reimbursed. Customer services staff explained to me that there had been some gating problems at Shepherd's Bush ( LO ) which have now been resolved. thanks in advance :-) |
Oyster travel cap (z2-6 ) if travel is within 2-6 but fare is via
wrote: Gentlemen, Thank you so much for the most excellent and very useful information. Some of the fare & journey calculations seem to have changed perhaps for the better or worse ? Expanding on what Mizter T said about changing at Willesden J and touching out and then in again. Well, in the past I have touched out and then back in again in quick succession, at several different stations and this has not registered on my card, e.g. last year I travelled from Camden Road - Stratford ( via LO) , touched out at Stratford for less than 5 minutes, met a friend, touched in again and we both continued on to Mile End. Inspection of my Oyster usage showed that I was charged for Camden Road - Mile End journey, with no reference to Stratford. Question - when you say you touched-out and back in at Stratford last year, did you go all the way outside through the main gateline and out on to the street outside the station entrance? In this situation there is a difference between touching-out/in on the standalone Oyster validators that are *within* Stratford station (i.e. within the fare paid area inside the gates) and leaving and then re- entering the station through the gates. It sounds to me as though you may have just used one of these 'interchange validators' (more on this later). Hence, on Saturday's journey I thought perhaps such quick touching out and back in to try to force a z2-6 cap (at both Willesden J and Stratford) would not count as a journey. I have read other examples where passengers have quickly got out of a station to pick up some dry cleaning or shopping, touched back in again within a space of 0-15 mins and not been charged for this break of journey nor has this break been registered /noted on their Oyster usage. OK. My understanding is that if you exit and then re-enter *the same station* *through an automatic gate* then this will finish your previous journey and start a new journey. At stations where there are no gates, just standalone Oyster validators, the situation might be different. At these stations it *might possibly* be the case that if you touch-out and then touch-in after a short space of time your journey is considered as continuing. This basically depends on how the standalone Oyster validators are configured - they can either be set up to simply end journeys when they detect there is an 'open journey' on the card (i.e. it has been touched-in somewhere else), or if no existing journey is detected then they will start a new journey. (This is how most of the standalone Oyster validators work at DLR stations - plus I think it's how they're generally set up at other ungated stations which aren't significant interchange points.) Otherwise they can be set as 'interchange validators' - touching-in on these doesn't finish a journey that has already started, instead it tells the card that the journey may be finished, or it may carry on to somewhere else. In other words if you don't touch-out somewhere else in the next hour or two then the journey will be considered as having finished, if you do touch-out somewhere else then the journey will be extended on to that next station. And because of the way the system is currently set up, it means that you will only be charged for the journey between your starting station and your ultimate destination station - hence the fact that you got charged for a direct Camden Road to Mile End journey, despite the fact that you touched on a standalone Oyster validators in Stratford station (at least that's what I'm assuming you did - right?). Thankfully though this situation looks likely to change in the near future which will mean that Oyster will be capable of charging cheaper fares for cheaper routes. Another situation where one might well only get charged for one journey despite going off and doing other things in between is where a person exits from one station, let's say Shepherd's Bush (Central line), goes and does there stuff (returning some hideous pink and lime green footwear bought during a lapse of taste at a shop in Westfield), and then goes and gets on a train from Shepherd's Bush LO/ WLL station. As the two Shepherd's Bush stations are tied together as an out-of-station interchange (OSI, or 'outerchange' as we often colloquially call them on here) then the system will consider the previous journey as being continued. Note that there is a time limit to how long the OSI stays 'live' on the Oyster card - in other words how long you've got to get from one station to the next - but TfL often set this very generously for ultra slow people (or people who get lost, say in Hammersmith between the District/Pic station and the H&C station!). On Saturday my assumptions of past experiences were wrong. Touching out and back in at Stratford ( I was outside Stratford for less than 2 mins) did now register as a journey as would have doing the same at WJ. Consequently, I was charged a separate Stratford - Camden Rd fare, which on last years experience I may have not been charged. This time you went all the way out of the main gates and then back in right? Unlike the standalone Oyster validators there's nothing ambiguous about exiting through some gates and then re-entering the same gates. Note that gates can be set to allow for an OSI of course - this is how they are set up at the two Shepherd's Bush stations (the cause of all these issues in the first place!). In cases such as this, leaving one station and continuing from the other will obviously simply extend the original journey. There's an Excel spreadsheet list of OSIs here (thanks to Walter Briscoe and others who asked TfL for them) - I've created a TinyURL because the original is massive: http://preview.tinyurl.com/dd7dka (Excel spreadsheets can be viewed using a free Excel viewer or also via the free online Google Docs service.) Also last year Willesden Junction - Stratford was priced as a via Z1 fare. think there was a lot of debate over this and other NLL/WLL//LO oyster pricing of fares in another forum. ( courtesy of Yorkie(?) ) I believe TfL have indeed made a number of changes regarding what routes the system assumed people took between stations. I'd think this was because via z1 fares were being charged for some NLL journeys, such as Willesden Jn to Stratford. Mizter T. I caught the 12.17 from SB to WJ and had a 2 min wait at WJ for the 12.29 train to Stratford. I think I may have been cutting it short if I attempted touching out and then back in again ! Indeed! Either one or the other (or both!) trains were late running, or else the timetables were different for whatever time you were travelling. By the by, I do think Fig's idea of taking the 266 bus from North Acton to Willesden Jn is a good one - it's a very short bus journey on a frequent, reliable main route, and it would sidestep all these issues about fares. Just as a footnote. Just after Xmas I was wrongly charged for a South Ruislip - Clapham Junction ( via Central line and changing at Shepherd's Bush onto LO to CJ). I was charged double the fare but was recently reimbursed. Customer services staff explained to me that there had been some gating problems at Shepherd's Bush ( LO ) which have now been resolved. I presume you were charged an off-peak £1 or £1.10 fare twice then (that's last year's and this year's fares). That's interesting, it sounds as though there was some issue with the OSI facility being set up on the Shepherd's Bush gates. If there was indeed such a mistake then it's a bit shabby that these things happen. There have been a number of times which involved incorrect data being sent out across the system when updates occurred - I wonder if this was possible the result of dodgy data being included when the new fares information was being sent out? (The timing would appear to fit.) thanks in advance :-) No problem. I have one last solution for you, by the way - and I think you might like it! Because Oyster PAYG fares are currently charged based on the origin and destination stations and disregard any intermediate touch-ins on standalone Oyster *interchange* validators (i.e. ones *within* stations that exist for interchange passengers - they are actually really for people swapping between Oyster PAYG and paper tickets), then what you could do is go from Shepherd's Bush/ Willesden Jn to Stratford, touch-in on a standalone Oyster validator *within* the station (e.g. next to the NLL platforms) but *don't* exit the station's main gates. You could then meet your friend within Stratford station and continue back along the NLL to Camden Road (or wherever) - I'm pretty sure the Oyster system would then charge you for a Shepherd's Bush/ Willesden Jn to Camden Road journey and would disregard the Stratford touch-in. And it would be completely legit because you would have touched-in at Stratford - indeed, you can touch-in as many times you want on all the different interchange validators there and it wouldn;t make a difference! And *all* the standalone Oyster validators at Stratford are set up as interchange validators (apart from the one next to the manual gate to get in and out of the station) - and yes I have tested this very recently! Of course this 'solution' will only work until the PAYG system is upgraded, likely later on this year - when this happens, interchanging between the Central line and WLL Shepherd's Bush should ensure you pay the cheaper non-z1 fare but it would also mean that touching-in at Stratford is likely to mean you pay for a journey out to zone 3. In your case this wouldn't matter though, as you'd be in line for the z2-6 cap anyway. But it will be interesting to see whether a journey from Greenford (z4) to Camden Rd (z2) with an intermediate touch-in at Stratford (z3) would count as one continuous journey, or two separate journeys (Greenford - Stratford, then Stratford - Camden Rd). I hope that helps - sorry this post is so epic in length! |
Oyster travel cap (z2-6 ) if travel is within 2-6 but fare is via
On 16 Feb, 13:17, Mizter T wrote: [*massive* snip] I have one last solution for you, by the way - and I think you might like it! Because Oyster PAYG fares are currently charged based on the origin and destination stations and disregard any intermediate touch-ins on standalone Oyster *interchange* validators (i.e. ones *within* stations that exist for interchange passengers - they are actually really for people swapping between Oyster PAYG and paper tickets), then what you could do is go from Shepherd's Bush/ Willesden Jn to Stratford, touch-in on a standalone Oyster validator *within* the station (e.g. next to the NLL platforms) but *don't* exit the station's main gates. You could then meet your friend within Stratford station and continue back along the NLL to Camden Road (or wherever) - I'm pretty sure the Oyster system would then charge you for a Shepherd's Bush/ Willesden Jn to Camden Road journey and would disregard the Stratford touch-in. And it would be completely legit because you would have touched-in at Stratford - indeed, you can touch-in as many times you want on all the different interchange validators there and it wouldn;t make a difference! And *all* the standalone Oyster validators at Stratford are set up as interchange validators (apart from the one next to the manual gate to get in and out of the station) - and yes I have tested this very recently! Of course this 'solution' will only work until the PAYG system is upgraded, likely later on this year - when this happens, interchanging between the Central line and WLL Shepherd's Bush should ensure you pay the cheaper non-z1 fare but it would also mean that touching-in at Stratford is likely to mean you pay for a journey out to zone 3. In your case this wouldn't matter though, as you'd be in line for the z2-6 cap anyway. But it will be interesting to see whether a journey from Greenford (z4) to Camden Rd (z2) with an intermediate touch-in at Stratford (z3) would count as one continuous journey, or two separate journeys (Greenford - Stratford, then Stratford - Camden Rd). Just to be crystal clear about this last point. At present, a Shepherd's Bush (LO/ WLL) to Stratford journey is charged as being via z1 regardless of the fact that the passenger might have travelled via the WLL and NLL - that's daft, but that's the way it is at the moment. However a Shepherd's Bush (LO/ WLL) to Camden Road journey is charged as a cheaper zone 2 journey. My contention is that if a passenger was to go from Shepherd's Bush (LO/ WLL) to Stratford, touch-in on an Oyster interchange validator *within the station* and *stay within the station* - i.e. did not exit and then re-enter the station through the main gates - then backtrack on the NLL to Camden Road and exit, the system would only charge them for a Shepherd's Bush (LO/ WLL) to Stratford journey. This would mean they would be eligible for the z2-6 cap. If however the passenger exited Stratford station out through the main gates, they would be charged for a via z1 journey and would then only be eligible for a z1-4 cap. As I state above, the situation whereby a Shepherd's Bush (LO/ WLL) to Stratford journey gets charged for a via z1 journey despite taking the zone 2 route should hopefully be cleared up with the upcoming PAYG system upgrade. Probably best to reply to my previous post rather than this one to avoid confusion, unless there's a specific point in this one that anyone wants to raise. |
Oyster travel cap (z2-6 ) if travel is within 2-6 but fare is via
On 16 Feb, 13:17, Mizter T wrote:
I hope that helps - sorry this post is so epic in length! Thank you so very much Mizter T, your post made engrossing reading ! Just wanted to add a couple of things. On each occasion I have had cause to go to Stratford I had to "exit" the station and pick up a friend alighting from a bus at the terminus point outside of the station. I have seen the validators you mentioned which are close to the NLL platforms and have occasionally wondered as to what would happen if I did touch on them ! I assume now that the gate system must have changed so even a quick touch out and touch in again at the same station is being recognised as two separate journeys ( the ending of one journey and the beginning of another). The problem over the Xmas S. Ruislip - Clapham Junction route was due to incorrectly configured gates at Shepherd's Bush LO ( so I was told). I got charged separately for both SR - SB (LU) and SB(LO) - CJ, £1.00 + £1.00 instead of just £1.00 for the entire SR-CJ journey. Thanks again ! cs |
Oyster travel cap (z2-6 ) if travel is within 2-6 but fare is via
On 16 Feb, 13:17, Mizter T wrote:
wrote: Gentlemen, Thank you so much for the most excellent and very useful information. Some of the fare & journey calculations seem to have changed perhaps for the better or worse ? Expanding on what Mizter *T said about changing at *Willesden J and touching out and then in again. Well, in the past I have touched out and then back in again in quick succession, at several different stations and this has not registered on my card, e.g. last year I travelled from Camden *Road - Stratford ( via LO) , touched out at Stratford *for less than 5 minutes, met a friend, touched in again and we both continued on to Mile End. Inspection of my Oyster usage showed that I was charged for *Camden Road - Mile End journey, with no reference to Stratford. Question - when you say you touched-out and back in at Stratford last year, did you go all the way outside through the main gateline and out on to the street outside the station entrance? In this situation there is a difference between touching-out/in on the standalone Oyster validators that are *within* Stratford station (i.e. within the fare paid area inside the gates) and leaving and then re- entering the station through the gates. It sounds to me as though you may have just used one of these 'interchange validators' (more on this later). Hence, on Saturday's journey I thought perhaps such quick touching out and back in to try to force a z2-6 cap (at both Willesden J and Stratford) would not count as a journey. I have read other examples where passengers have quickly got out of a station to pick up some dry cleaning or shopping, touched back in again within a space of 0-15 mins and not been charged for this break of journey nor has this break been registered /noted on their Oyster usage. OK. My understanding is that if you exit and then re-enter *the same station* *through an automatic gate* then this will finish your previous journey and start a new journey. At stations where there are no gates, just standalone Oyster validators, the situation might be different. At these stations it *might possibly* be the case that if you touch-out and then touch-in after a short space of time your journey is considered as continuing. This basically depends on how the standalone Oyster validators are configured - they can either be set up to simply end journeys when they detect there is an 'open journey' on the card (i.e. it has been touched-in somewhere else), or if no existing journey is detected then they will start a new journey. (This is how most of the standalone Oyster validators work at DLR stations - plus I think it's how they're generally set up at other ungated stations which aren't significant interchange points.) Otherwise they can be set as 'interchange validators' - touching-in on these doesn't finish a journey that has already started, instead it tells the card that the journey may be finished, or it may carry on to somewhere else. In other words if you don't touch-out somewhere else in the next hour or two then the journey will be considered as having finished, if you do touch-out somewhere else then the journey will be extended on to that next station. And because of the way the system is currently set up, it means that you will only be charged for the journey between your starting station and your ultimate destination station - hence the fact that you got charged for a direct Camden Road to Mile End journey, despite the fact that you touched on a standalone Oyster validators in Stratford station (at least that's what I'm assuming you did - right?). Thankfully though this situation looks likely to change in the near future which will mean that Oyster will be capable of charging cheaper fares for cheaper routes. Another situation where one might well only get charged for one journey despite going off and doing other things in between is where a person exits from one station, let's say Shepherd's Bush (Central line), goes and does there stuff (returning some hideous pink and lime green footwear bought during a lapse of taste at a shop in Westfield), and then goes and gets on a train from Shepherd's Bush LO/ WLL station. As the two Shepherd's Bush stations are tied together as an out-of-station interchange (OSI, or 'outerchange' as we often colloquially call them on here) then the system will consider the previous journey as being continued. The thing about this is that the Shepherds Bushes seem to be treated not as an outerchange but as a more-like-Stratford situation where it's all one station. The poster seems to have been charged for travelling via the Central Line despite entering a building from which it isn't possible to access the Central Line. If the Shepherds Bushes were set up as separate stations with an outerchange, you'd think he'd be charged the non-zone 1 fare. |
Oyster travel cap (z2-6 ) if travel is within 2-6 but fare is via
On 16 Feb, 14:34, wrote: On 16 Feb, 13:17, Mizter T wrote: I hope that helps - sorry this post is so epic in length! Thank you so very much Mizter T, your post made engrossing reading ! Just wanted to add a couple of things. On each occasion I have had cause to go to *Stratford I had to *"exit" the station and pick up a friend alighting from a bus at the terminus point outside of the station. I have seen the validators you mentioned which are close to the NLL platforms and have occasionally wondered as to what would happen if I did touch on them ! I assume now that the gate system must have changed so even a quick touch out and touch in again at the same station is being recognised as two separate journeys ( the ending of one journey and the beginning of another). OK, in that case I'm guilty of making an incorrect assumption about what you had done at Stratford - sorry! That's very interesting to hear what happened at Stratford. There's no out-of-station interchange at Stratford with anywhere else - I mean not going out of the main gates, so it seems peculiar that they would be configured to allow a passenger to exit and then re-enter and continue making their journey. They may have been incorrectly configured at the time - perhaps the result of the complexity of what happens at Stratford. I dunno - I must admit it's a bit of a mystery to me! I am certainly under the impression that exiting and then re-entering Stratford would mean that the initial journey was ended and then a new one was started - that's how I recollect things happening there, I've never noticed anything happening like what you experience when I've been there but perhaps I haven't been observant enough - indeed perhaps it still happens. I'll try it next time I'm up in that neck of the woods. As I said, *if* you can stay within the station and meet your friends in there, then for the time being at least I think you'd get charged for a Shepherd's Bush to Camden Road journey even if you touched on an interchange validator within the station - indeed I'd recommend doing just that, as it would ensure that you were legit for your journey back west to Camden Rd on the NLL. The problem over the Xmas S. Ruislip - *Clapham Junction *route was due to incorrectly configured gates at *Shepherd's Bush *LO ( so I was told). I got charged separately for both SR - SB (LU) and SB(LO) - CJ, £1.00 + £1.00 instead of just £1.00 for the entire *SR-CJ journey.. That would indeed explain it. It shouldn't really happen in the first place, of course. One hopes that there won't be too many other errors like this when Oyster PAYG is rolled out across the whole of National Rail in London - it's important to get it right, preferably first time, or passengers will end up paying too much and losing confidence in the system. The problem is that it can't really be trialled out in the real world - once the Oyster readers at NR stations are switched on, they've all just got to work from the get-go. Thanks again ! No worries. |
Oyster travel cap (z2-6 ) if travel is within 2-6 but fare is via
MIG wrote: On 16 Feb, 13:17, Mizter T wrote: wrote: Gentlemen, Thank you so much for the most excellent and very useful information. Some of the fare & journey calculations seem to have changed perhaps for the better or worse ? Expanding on what Mizter T said about changing at Willesden J and touching out and then in again. Well, in the past I have touched out and then back in again in quick succession, at several different stations and this has not registered on my card, e.g. last year I travelled from Camden Road - Stratford ( via LO) , touched out at Stratford for less than 5 minutes, met a friend, touched in again and we both continued on to Mile End. Inspection of my Oyster usage showed that I was charged for Camden Road - Mile End journey, with no reference to Stratford. Question - when you say you touched-out and back in at Stratford last year, did you go all the way outside through the main gateline and out on to the street outside the station entrance? In this situation there is a difference between touching-out/in on the standalone Oyster validators that are *within* Stratford station (i.e. within the fare paid area inside the gates) and leaving and then re- entering the station through the gates. It sounds to me as though you may have just used one of these 'interchange validators' (more on this later). Hence, on Saturday's journey I thought perhaps such quick touching out and back in to try to force a z2-6 cap (at both Willesden J and Stratford) would not count as a journey. I have read other examples where passengers have quickly got out of a station to pick up some dry cleaning or shopping, touched back in again within a space of 0-15 mins and not been charged for this break of journey nor has this break been registered /noted on their Oyster usage. OK. My understanding is that if you exit and then re-enter *the same station* *through an automatic gate* then this will finish your previous journey and start a new journey. At stations where there are no gates, just standalone Oyster validators, the situation might be different. At these stations it *might possibly* be the case that if you touch-out and then touch-in after a short space of time your journey is considered as continuing. This basically depends on how the standalone Oyster validators are configured - they can either be set up to simply end journeys when they detect there is an 'open journey' on the card (i.e. it has been touched-in somewhere else), or if no existing journey is detected then they will start a new journey. (This is how most of the standalone Oyster validators work at DLR stations - plus I think it's how they're generally set up at other ungated stations which aren't significant interchange points.) Otherwise they can be set as 'interchange validators' - touching-in on these doesn't finish a journey that has already started, instead it tells the card that the journey may be finished, or it may carry on to somewhere else. In other words if you don't touch-out somewhere else in the next hour or two then the journey will be considered as having finished, if you do touch-out somewhere else then the journey will be extended on to that next station. And because of the way the system is currently set up, it means that you will only be charged for the journey between your starting station and your ultimate destination station - hence the fact that you got charged for a direct Camden Road to Mile End journey, despite the fact that you touched on a standalone Oyster validators in Stratford station (at least that's what I'm assuming you did - right?). Thankfully though this situation looks likely to change in the near future which will mean that Oyster will be capable of charging cheaper fares for cheaper routes. Another situation where one might well only get charged for one journey despite going off and doing other things in between is where a person exits from one station, let's say Shepherd's Bush (Central line), goes and does there stuff (returning some hideous pink and lime green footwear bought during a lapse of taste at a shop in Westfield), and then goes and gets on a train from Shepherd's Bush LO/ WLL station. As the two Shepherd's Bush stations are tied together as an out-of-station interchange (OSI, or 'outerchange' as we often colloquially call them on here) then the system will consider the previous journey as being continued. The thing about this is that the Shepherds Bushes seem to be treated not as an outerchange but as a more-like-Stratford situation where it's all one station. The poster seems to have been charged for travelling via the Central Line despite entering a building from which it isn't possible to access the Central Line. I absolutely understand what you're saying - however I wonder if this is currently an inevitable by-product of OSIs/ outerchanges. I don't know, that's just speculation, but it would provide an explanation. If the Shepherds Bushes were set up as separate stations with an outerchange, you'd think he'd be charged the non-zone 1 fare. I'm just wondering whether that's possible - see above. Perhaps it is and this situation is simply the result of sloppy programming. I don't know enough about the machinations behind it to say, unfortunately. Hopefully the PAYG system upgrade should sort out stuff like this. As you can see, I'm placing a lot of hope in that, so it had better deliver! We shall see, hopefully sooner rather than later - but I'd prefer later if it meant that kinks were going to be ironed out before it went live. The thing is that it's all enmeshed with the rollout of PAYG across NR in London - 'oysterisation' as Boris would put it - so there's a lot of (political) pressure for it to happen asap. If the TOCs are still bickering about who gets what revenue for which journeys then I imagine it could make working on the finer details of the PAYG upgrade challenging - I'd think the system's planners would want the position of all the chess pieces decided upon so they could plan around them, if they keep moving this might well make life more difficult for them. |
Oyster travel cap (z2-6 ) if travel is within 2-6 but fare is via
On 16 Feb, 15:16, Mizter T wrote:
MIG wrote: On 16 Feb, 13:17, Mizter T wrote: wrote: Gentlemen, Thank you so much for the most excellent and very useful information. |
Oyster travel cap (z2-6 ) if travel is within 2-6 but fare is via
This suggests that there is something different about the Shepherds Bushes whereby they are treated as a single station. That may be true for oyster but it's not true for paper tickets as I found out once. I bought a ticket from the LO machine for a journey to Stansted Airport, which said Shepherds Bush LO (or something to that effect, possibly "NR") and had a "+" sign. So I then crossed the road to the tube station to get the central line. The gate validator didn't let me in, and on showing the ticket to the man he said that the "+" meant I could use the ticket on the tube only if I had already got on a real train that started at Shepherds Bush LO. I suggested that to abide by the rules I should take a train to West Brompton and change at Ealing Broadway to get to the other side of the gate, to which he agreed. |
Oyster travel cap (z2-6 ) if travel is within 2-6 but fare is via
MIG wrote: On 16 Feb, 15:16, Mizter T wrote: MIG wrote: [big snip] The thing about this is that the Shepherds Bushes seem to be treated not as an outerchange but as a more-like-Stratford situation where it's all one station. *The poster seems to have been charged for travelling via the Central Line despite entering a building from which it isn't possible to access the Central Line. I absolutely understand what you're saying - however I wonder if this is currently an inevitable by-product of OSIs/ outerchanges. I don't know, that's just speculation, but it would provide an explanation. If the Shepherds Bushes were set up as separate stations with an outerchange, you'd think he'd be charged the non-zone 1 fare. I'm just wondering whether that's possible - see above. Perhaps it is and this situation is simply the result of sloppy programming. I don't know enough about the machinations behind it to say, unfortunately. Just done an interesting experiment on these lines with the TfL Fare Finder. Hackney Central/Hackney downs is an outerchange. The Fare Finder price from Hackney Central to Lewisham is not priced via zone 1. The Fare Finder price from Hackney Downs to Lewisham is priced via zone 1. This suggests that despite being a valid outerchange for continuing journeys (eg Cambridge Heath to Homerton*), the two outerchange stations are treated differently with respect to journeys that start there, presumably because if you enter Hackney Downs you can only reach Lewisham via zone 1. Good work MIG - I had half-thought that one could perhaps try and narrow things down like that, but my brain had turned to oysterised mush by that point! The Hackney to Lewisham example seems to be a particularly good one as it's really clear cut. This suggests that there is something different about the Shepherds Bushes whereby they are treated as a single station. Perhaps the Oyster people have gone for the easier route in doing that, I dunno. It does seem pretty daft that a Shepherd's Bush (LO/ WLL) to Stratford journey is charged as being via z1 when it seems pretty obvious that a passenger would be going via the WLL and NLL. Unless... Perhaps there's some idea that a passenger might go via Kensington Olympia or West Brompton and then the District line through central London. This would of course be rather nuts as the blindingly obvious route via central London is direct along the District line. OK, there might be a few people who're rather claustrophobic or whatever and wish to do as much of the journey on 'big' District line trains, or indeed people going an unusual route so as to travel some of the way with others, but the system's assumptions on the route taken obviously cannot be made on this basis! I'm guessing that the assumed routes were/are initially generated by a computer, a process which perhaps involves it it quizzing the journey planner as to what the quickest route is, and this forms the basis of the assumed routes, though is then subject to human involvement in finessing the results. But perhaps the computer decided that folk using Shepherd's Bush going to Stratford would actually choose to travel via Kensington Olympia/ West Brompton and decided to charge them for so doing, and no human caught this in time? The other possible explanation I'd though of is that the assumed routes for both Shepherd's Bushes were deemed to be the same - but this notion can easily be rubbished by querying the fares finder again - the fares from Clapham Junction to Shepherd's Bush LU are z1&2 fares, whilst CJ to Shepherd's Bush (LO/ WLL) is just a zone 2 fare. Hmm. It seems possible that this issue is the result of sloppy assumptions over the assumed routes - if so, that's a bit of a shame. Getting on to Oyster customer service centre about this might be a good idea, as it could increase the chances of it being dealt with. I'd actually be tempted to write a very short letter asking why Shepherd's Bush (LO/ WLL) to Stratford journeys are being charged like this. The Oyster CSC contact details are he http://www.tfl.gov.uk/contact/4417.a...Service_Centre *My nemesis. Ha ha! Wrong side of the tracks... or perhaps it's simply the wrong side of the Thames! ;-) |
Oyster travel cap (z2-6 ) if travel is within 2-6 but fare is via
On 16 Feb, 17:10, wrote: This suggests that there is something different about the Shepherds Bushes whereby they are treated as a single station. That may be true for oyster but it's not true for paper tickets as I found out once. I bought a ticket from the LO machine for a journey to Stansted Airport, which said Shepherds Bush LO (or something to that effect, possibly "NR") and had a "+" sign. So I then crossed the road to the tube station to get the central line. The gate validator didn't let me in, and on showing the ticket to the man he said that the "+" meant I could use the ticket on the tube only if I had already got on a real train that started at Shepherds Bush LO. I suggested that to abide by the rules I should take a train to West Brompton and change at Ealing Broadway to get to the other side of the gate, to which he agreed. The "+" sign (actually a Maltese Cross, or a dagger, or is it both or neither?) actually denotes that the ticket can be used for cross- London transfer by Tube between a designated list of stations, and Shepherd's Bush is not one of them (though perhaps it should be). The list of stations is on this page - click on the "show Station List" link: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/london/ To comply with the rules you would have needed to go from Shepherd's Bush on a WLL train and interchange at Kensington Olympia or West Brompton on to the Underground network. I think I would have just let you through! Interesting point about Shepherd's Bush (LO/ WLL) not being on that list though. Perhaps it will be in the future, indeed perhaps it's omitted from the present list because no-one was quite sure about when the station would actually open and amending the list is a lengthy process. |
Oyster travel cap (z2-6 ) if travel is within 2-6 but fare is via
On 16 Feb, 17:17, Mizter T wrote:
Getting on to Oyster customer service centre about this might be a good idea, as it could increase the chances of it being dealt with. I'd actually be tempted to write a very short letter asking why Shepherd's Bush (LO/ WLL) to Stratford journeys are being charged like this. The Oyster CSC contact details are hehttp://www.tfl.gov.uk/contact/4417.a...Service_Centre Mizter T, I emailed Customer Services last Wednesday asking them about my forthcoming journey on the Saturday and whether I would be entitled to the z2-6 cap if travelling from Shepherd's Bush ( nll/wll/lo) and thereby avoiding z1. Unfortunately, it was wishful thinking that I would get a reply by Saturday morning. However, I've sent them another email regarding Saturday's journeys and asked if I am entitled to any refund. Having not transgressed into z1 I personally feel that I do have a good case, however, I fear that carefully worded rules / conditions of travel in the Oyster fares "handbook" will conspire against me ! regards cs |
Oyster travel cap (z2-6 ) if travel is within 2-6 but fare is via
I think I would have just let you through! By a curious coincidence, he did leave the gate momentarily unattended shortly after that conversation. |
Oyster travel cap (z2-6 ) if travel is within 2-6 but fare is via
On 16 Feb, 17:40, wrote: On 16 Feb, 17:17, Mizter T wrote: Getting on to Oyster customer service centre about this might be a good idea, as it could increase the chances of it being dealt with. I'd actually be tempted to write a very short letter asking why Shepherd's Bush (LO/ WLL) to Stratford journeys are being charged like this. The Oyster CSC contact details are he http://www.tfl.gov.uk/contact/4417.a...Service_Centre Mizter T, I emailed Customer Services last Wednesday asking them about my forthcoming journey on the Saturday and whether I would be entitled to the z2-6 cap if travelling from Shepherd's Bush ( nll/wll/lo) and thereby avoiding z1. Unfortunately, it was wishful thinking that *I would get a reply by Saturday morning. However, I've sent them another email regarding Saturday's journeys and asked if I am entitled to any refund. Having not transgressed into z1 I personally feel that I do have a good case, however, I fear that carefully worded rules / conditions of travel in the *Oyster fares "handbook" will conspire against me ! The crucial phrase is on page 5 of the TfL Fares and tickets booklet: "Some journeys are defined as requiring travel via Zone 1 and will be charged and capped accordingly, irrespective of the actual route taken." In other words, they've got their back covered on this issue! My thinking was less about the possibility of getting you and others a refund each time this happens, more about getting TfL to change the system so it doesn't happen at all. I'd think that until the upcoming comprehensive PAYG system upgrade there will continue to be a problem about a Greenford to Stratford journey. However, it seems to me that the problem of a Shepherd's Bush (LO/ WLL) to Stratford journey being assumed to be via-z1 could be rectified fairly easily. However it couldn't be done overnight. I think it would have to be included in the next set of data sent out as an update across the Oyster system. The question is whether the next update is in fact the major PAYG system upgrade (which AIUI is essentially being so the whole system can cope with the start of Oyster PAYG acceptance across NR in London). Re the letter thing - I have this notion that letters sometimes receive better consideration than electronic communications. However, if you were to actually pursue a refund then this might get the wheels turning faster. That said, it might be a known issue and already on the list to be dealt with. I must admit I'd be rather gobsmacked if they actually replied to you and said this though! ---------- [1] TfL Fares and tickets booklet (PDF): http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...s-zones1-6.pdf |
Oyster travel cap (z2-6 ) if travel is within 2-6 but fare is via
On 16 Feb, 17:56, wrote: I think I would have just let you through! By a curious coincidence, he did leave the gate momentarily unattended shortly after that conversation. Nice! |
Oyster travel cap (z2-6 ) if travel is within 2-6 but fare is via
Mizter T,
I've been reading of a similar situation / journey in which the z2-6 cap was applied to a via Z1 journey Ruislip (z5 met line) - Snaresbrook (z4 central line) The journey / fare is listed as via z1. However, the passenger went Ruislip ---(met line) --- Finchley Rd (OOSI) Finchley Rd & Frognal ---(LO)-- Stratford --(cent line) -- Snaresbrook and returned to Ruislip the same way. His fare for the journey was capped at £2.80 ( previous z2-6 cap). £2-00 outward and £0.80 return. So obviously the system DID recognise the fact that there was no transgression into Z1 even though Ruislip - Snaresbrook is a via Z1 fare / journey. Perhaps the trigger was the Finchley Rd + Frognal -- Snaresbrook stretch which is a non z1 journey/ fare. You will get charged the same single fare for this journey irrespective of which route you take ( via z1 or via Finchley Rd & Frognal) but the benefit of the cap comes in if your outward travel and return is via the NLL line. It is clear that non z1 travel is recognised by the system on this route. TFL need to apply similar methods to our dilemma. Touching in at Shepherd's Bush LO should alert the system that I am making a non z1 journey. That way Greenford - Stratford via Z1 OR via NLL/WLL will still remain £2.20 off peak, but travelling exclusively via NLL/WLL will allow for the z2-6 cap. regards cs |
Oyster travel cap (z2-6 ) if travel is within 2-6 but fare is via
On Feb 16, 5:17*pm, Mizter T wrote:
MIG wrote: On 16 Feb, 15:16, Mizter T wrote: MIG wrote: [big snip] The thing about this is that the Shepherds Bushes seem to be treated not as an outerchange but as a more-like-Stratford situation where it's all one station. *The poster seems to have been charged for travelling via the Central Line despite entering a building from which it isn't possible to access the Central Line. I absolutely understand what you're saying - however I wonder if this is currently an inevitable by-product of OSIs/ outerchanges. I don't know, that's just speculation, but it would provide an explanation. If the Shepherds Bushes were set up as separate stations with an outerchange, you'd think he'd be charged the non-zone 1 fare. I'm just wondering whether that's possible - see above. Perhaps it is and this situation is simply the result of sloppy programming. I don't know enough about the machinations behind it to say, unfortunately. Just done an interesting experiment on these lines with the TfL Fare Finder. Hackney Central/Hackney downs is an outerchange. The Fare Finder price from Hackney Central to Lewisham is not priced via zone 1. The Fare Finder price from Hackney Downs to Lewisham is priced via zone 1. This suggests that despite being a valid outerchange for continuing journeys (eg Cambridge Heath to Homerton*), the two outerchange stations are treated differently with respect to journeys that start there, presumably because if you enter Hackney Downs you can only reach Lewisham via zone 1. Good work MIG - This behaviour was completely out of character m'lud ... |
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