1577+2260 wrote:
On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:49:44 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote:
Either St Johns to Lewisham or St Johns to Hither Green (or both) must lack
4 trains an hour as well.

Add to that:

Whitton: says 4tph, but really it's 2ph fast and 2ph slow, and in one
direction the fast and slows are only a few minutes apart at Whitton,
so really it's two sets of 2ph. In the other direction (can't remember
which) I eblieve they're more evenly spaced.

It's similar for up trains at Ashford: 2ph via Hounslow, 2ph via
Richmond, with both trains in each half of the hour very close
together; but more even in the other direction.


I wanted, and have in the past asked our leaders for a map like this,
with 3 subtle differences:

- The standard should be 6 tph, not 4
- There should also not be a gap of more than 12 minutes between
successive trains
- The map should cover the whole of London, including relevant parts of
the tube network

Still, it's a start.

Colin McKenzie

Colin McKenzie wrote:

- The standard should be 6 tph, not 4
- There should also not be a gap of more than 12 minutes between
successive trains
- The map should cover the whole of London, including relevant parts of
the tube network

Which would be pretty much all of it, apart from maybe the Chigwell
branch of the Northern line and parts of the Met, right?

--
James Farrar |
London, SE13 |

"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
http://www.overgroundnetwork.com/

It's very dishonest. A casual glance at the map suggests that there are 4
trains an hour from Slade Green to Dartford, but on closer examination the
key manages to avoid actually stating that the coloured lines imply a 4
trains an hour service.

Similarly New Malden-Surbiton.

Either St Johns to Lewisham or St Johns to Hither Green (or both) must
lack
4 trains an hour as well.

I think Selhurst - East Croydon also doesn't have 4 trains an hour.

Strawberry Hill has 4 trains an hour to Waterloo (by two different
routes),
but is not marked as such, so there is not even consistency in the
approach
they have taken.

Hmm, and so they exclude Greenhithe's Connex metro station even though it's
just a few stops on from Dartford and services the country's largest
shopping centre.

If they really want to promote rail usage, it's just so painfully obvious
that one of the major problems to tackle is the state of most of the "metro"
trains - with their scratched windows, graffiti, generally grubby state, and
cramped seating.

I have to use rail to get to/from work but I would not dream of using rail
to get anywhere for a leisure/off-peak journey - it is a squalid and
unpleasant environment plagued by a lack of basic train cleaning, graffiti
and vandalism.

Nick

In article , James Farrar
writes
- The standard should be 6 tph, not 4
- There should also not be a gap of more than 12 minutes between
successive trains
- The map should cover the whole of London, including relevant parts of
the tube network

Which would be pretty much all of it, apart from maybe the Chigwell
branch of the Northern line and parts of the Met, right?

The Northern Line goes to Chigwell?

--
Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8371 1138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address

"John Rowland" wrote in message ...
http://www.overgroundnetwork.com/

It's very dishonest.

You can say that again. There's a sign at Charlton which says "Welcome
to Charlton... the ticket office is open between 0610 and 2000 Mondays
to Saturdays".

I've not seen the ticket office open beyond about 6pm for the past few
years, and never on a Saturday evening, and it's frequently shut all
afternoon and even all day.

The 4tph service on the Greenwich line also packs up at 10pm, just
when the pubs are starting to chuck out, and on a Saturday, it packs
up at 7pm. Clever. And don't people travel on Sundays?

Still, it's a start...

Darryl

"Nick" wrote in message ...


Hmm, and so they exclude Greenhithe's Connex metro station even though it's
just a few stops on from Dartford and services the country's largest
shopping centre.

Probably because it's a Transport for London initiative - but then
again Dartford's in there...

If they really want to promote rail usage, it's just so painfully obvious
that one of the major problems to tackle is the state of most of the "metro"
trains - with their scratched windows, graffiti, generally grubby state, and
cramped seating.

And the stations - they're filthy, the ticket offices are usually
closed, machines often broken and usually inadquate for all but the
simplest of tickets, and generally it's a pain if you want to actually
buy a ticket...

Darryl

"Steve Naïve" wrote in message
...
James Farrar wrote in
:

"Terry Harper" wrote:
....
The departure boards seem to confirm that.
http://www.livedepartureboards.co.uk...ary.aspx?T=SRS

Interesting website.

I assume it has an index page? http://www.livedepartureboards.co.uk/
gives me a 403.

Bizarrely, yes, it appears you have to access it indirectly. Try;
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/ldb/fs_departures.asp to search for your
station (unless you can guess the three-letter code for it.

Or use the interface from http://www.dracos.co.uk/railway/
--
David Biddulph

The new Overground Network which was launched this earlier week only cover
stations and services on these routes:
Waterloo to Teddington via Wimbledon
Waterloo to Twickenham via Richmond
Victoria to East and West Croydon via Norbury
London Bridge to Dartford via Greenwich

Note: Even though half the trains on the Overground Network out of Waterloo
are actually the same trains, the stations and services along the route
between Twickenham and Teddington are NOT on the new Overground Network.

The idea behind it is, and I quote, "New pilot scheme promotes Metro rail
services for South London."

This was a pilot scheme known as South London Metro but has been marketed as
Overground Network. It is a pilot that covers 41 stations in South London.

I guess this is to justify TfL's new London Rail section
(http://www.tfl.gov.uk/rail/) which is in the same revolting brown colour as
the Overground Network.

So what does this actually mean? Well, Twickenham station has been
refurbished(It took over a year to complete.) It now has a nice new shiny
station front, a new National Rail very tall totem pole, a little bit of
painting, a lift for wheelchair users for platforms 4 and 5 but not 1 and 2.
This week there was the appearance of an Overground Network poster site
outside the station and line diagrams at the top of the staircase for
platforms 4 and 5 just like you see at tube stations.

"All 41 stations on the Overground Network meet the ON standards:
o Frequency - minimum of four trains per hour during daytime off-peak
(Monday to Saturday)
o Passenger information - investment has been made to install distinctive
new station signs and better information points, which include clearer route
and network maps, better frequency information and details of connections to
other modes of public transport
o Security - CCTV coverage and help points.

Additional evening services, funded by TfL London Rail are also being
piloted between London Bridge and Dartford, increasing frequency on Mondays
to Fridays from two to four trains per hour until 10pm."

In terms of train services, well it's exactly the same as before. There's
usually long gaps between trains going to Waterloo. There's no evening
service between Hounslow and Twickenham. There's only a half hourly service
between Twickenham and Teddington. That's why these services along with the
rest of South London are not on the Overground Network. At this stage it's
just a pilot project to encourage those that don't use rail off peak to try
a "metro" style service.

In article , Marc G
wrote:
So what does this actually mean? Well, Twickenham station has
been refurbished(It took over a year to complete.) It now has
a nice new shiny station front, a new National Rail very tall
totem pole, a little bit of painting, a lift for wheelchair
users for platforms 4 and 5 but not 1 and 2. This week there
was the appearance of an Overground Network poster site outside
the station and line diagrams at the top of the staircase for
platforms 4 and 5 just like you see at tube stations.

In response to the official reopening of Twickenham Station I
wrote to the Richmond and Twickenham Times who published my
letter yesterday:

"How to 'improve' a railway station: If there is a place where
passengers can conveniently be dropped off and picked up, remove
it. To help infrequent passengers, position the map showing which
station is in which zone on the far side of the barriers so that
those buying tickets can't consult it. And if there's a screen in
the booking hall that shows train times and platforms remove it:
guessing which platform the next train to London departs from
will add interest to passengers lives!

I am an infrequent user of the railways but have no objection to
my taxes being used to make them better. In the case of
Twickenham station it looks to me like money wasted."

In terms of train services, well it's exactly the same as
before.

i.e. less than wonderful if you live in Strawberry Hill or want
to go Richmond-Kingston

--
Tony Bryer