I've just watched the latest Video 125 drivers eye view, of the Victoria
line. Included as a bonus was some archive film covering the construction
and opening of the line. It appears that, from the outset, there were CCTV
screens at platform end, giving operators a view of the platform. However,
no mention was made of the purpose served by this facility.

So, was the Victoria line one person operated from the outset, or did the
screens serve some other purpose, and if so, what?

Whilst not, on the face of it, the most interesting DEV subject, this made
surprisingly good viewing. Notably, the crossover just outside Brixton
station being taken at full line speed by the 'auto pilot', which apparently
leads trainee operators, transferring from other lines, to grab for the
brake in panic!

Chris

On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 19:51:49 +0100, "Chris Read"
wrote:

I've just watched the latest Video 125 drivers eye view, of the Victoria
line. Included as a bonus was some archive film covering the construction
and opening of the line. It appears that, from the outset, there were CCTV
screens at platform end, giving operators a view of the platform. However,
no mention was made of the purpose served by this facility.

So, was the Victoria line one person operated from the outset, or did the
screens serve some other purpose, and if so, what?

Whilst not, on the face of it, the most interesting DEV subject, this made
surprisingly good viewing. Notably, the crossover just outside Brixton
station being taken at full line speed by the 'auto pilot', which apparently
leads trainee operators, transferring from other lines, to grab for the
brake in panic!

Chris

I think the first train was driven by HM the Queen, if I recall I am
sure there were plenty of guards on board.

From the day it was opened the Victoria Line was designed and built to be
operated by automatic trains (the 1967 stock). The Automatic Train Operation
technology used was tested on the District Line between Ravenscourt Park and
Hammersmith(?) stations in the early 1960s. From a technical viewpoint it
was / is not actually necessary to have someone in the front cab at all, but
it was deemed to be a step too far to have "driverless" trains, as it would
have upset passengers, (and caused some staff relations issues), so the post
of Automatic Train Operator (ATO) was created. The ATO controls the opening
and closing of doors at the station and then presses two buttons on the
console to initiate the ATO "driving" process to the next station.



In the days when the other LT underground lines were all operated by a crew
of a motorman and a guard, there was a strict line of promotion. Motormen
got paid more than guards and ATOs got paid more than motormen, so the
people who became ATOs were the more senior staff who had longer service
with LT.





"Michael Bell" wrote in message
. uk...
In message
"Chris Read" wrote:

I've just watched the latest Video 125 drivers eye view, of the Victoria
line. Included as a bonus was some archive film covering the construction
and opening of the line. It appears that, from the outset, there were
CCTV
screens at platform end, giving operators a view of the platform.
However,
no mention was made of the purpose served by this facility.

So, was the Victoria line one person operated from the outset, or did the
screens serve some other purpose, and if so, what?

Whilst not, on the face of it, the most interesting DEV subject, this
made
surprisingly good viewing. Notably, the crossover just outside Brixton
station being taken at full line speed by the 'auto pilot', which
apparently
leads trainee operators, transferring from other lines, to grab for the
brake in panic!

Chris

Yes, so far as I know it was driver-only from the first.

Michael Bell


--

"J Lynch" wrote in message
. uk...
From the day it was opened the Victoria Line was designed and built to be
operated by automatic trains (the 1967 stock). The Automatic Train
Operation technology used was tested on the District Line between
Ravenscourt Park and Hammersmith(?) stations in the early 1960s. From a
technical viewpoint it was / is not actually necessary to have someone in
the front cab at all, but it was deemed to be a step too far to have
"driverless" trains, as it would have upset passengers, (and caused some
staff relations issues), so the post of Automatic Train Operator (ATO) was
created. The ATO controls the opening and closing of doors at the station
and then presses two buttons on the console to initiate the ATO "driving"
process to the next station.



In the days when the other LT underground lines were all operated by a
crew of a motorman and a guard, there was a strict line of promotion.
Motormen got paid more than guards and ATOs got paid more than motormen,
so the people who became ATOs were the more senior staff who had longer
service with LT.





"Michael Bell" wrote in message
. uk...
In message
"Chris Read" wrote:

I've just watched the latest Video 125 drivers eye view, of the Victoria
line. Included as a bonus was some archive film covering the
construction
and opening of the line. It appears that, from the outset, there were
CCTV
screens at platform end, giving operators a view of the platform.
However,
no mention was made of the purpose served by this facility.

So, was the Victoria line one person operated from the outset, or did
the
screens serve some other purpose, and if so, what?

Whilst not, on the face of it, the most interesting DEV subject, this
made
surprisingly good viewing. Notably, the crossover just outside Brixton
station being taken at full line speed by the 'auto pilot', which
apparently
leads trainee operators, transferring from other lines, to grab for the
brake in panic!

Chris

Yes, so far as I know it was driver-only from the first.

Michael Bell


--



I thought the ATO tests were between Stamford Brook and Ravenscourt Park?

And weren't there also tests somewhere around Northfields and also at the
top of the Hainault Loop of the Central?

"Graham Harrison" wrote in message
...


"J Lynch" wrote in message
. uk...
From the day it was opened the Victoria Line was designed and built to be
operated by automatic trains (the 1967 stock). The Automatic Train
Operation technology used was tested on the District Line between
Ravenscourt Park and Hammersmith(?) stations in the early 1960s. From a
technical viewpoint it was / is not actually necessary to have someone in
the front cab at all, but it was deemed to be a step too far to have
"driverless" trains, as it would have upset passengers, (and caused some
staff relations issues), so the post of Automatic Train Operator (ATO)
was created. The ATO controls the opening and closing of doors at the
station and then presses two buttons on the console to initiate the ATO
"driving" process to the next station.



In the days when the other LT underground lines were all operated by a
crew of a motorman and a guard, there was a strict line of promotion.
Motormen got paid more than guards and ATOs got paid more than motormen,
so the people who became ATOs were the more senior staff who had longer
service with LT.





"Michael Bell" wrote in message
. uk...
In message
"Chris Read" wrote:

I've just watched the latest Video 125 drivers eye view, of the
Victoria
line. Included as a bonus was some archive film covering the
construction
and opening of the line. It appears that, from the outset, there were
CCTV
screens at platform end, giving operators a view of the platform.
However,
no mention was made of the purpose served by this facility.

So, was the Victoria line one person operated from the outset, or did
the
screens serve some other purpose, and if so, what?

Whilst not, on the face of it, the most interesting DEV subject, this
made
surprisingly good viewing. Notably, the crossover just outside Brixton
station being taken at full line speed by the 'auto pilot', which
apparently
leads trainee operators, transferring from other lines, to grab for the
brake in panic!

Chris

Yes, so far as I know it was driver-only from the first.

Michael Bell


--



I thought the ATO tests were between Stamford Brook and Ravenscourt Park?

And weren't there also tests somewhere around Northfields and also at the
top of the Hainault Loop of the Central?

Thanks - you are right in what you say about the District Line and the
Central. Not sure about Northfields though...

In message
"Chris Read" wrote:

I've just watched the latest Video 125 drivers eye view, of the Victoria
line. Included as a bonus was some archive film covering the construction
and opening of the line. It appears that, from the outset, there were CCTV
screens at platform end, giving operators a view of the platform. However,
no mention was made of the purpose served by this facility.

So, was the Victoria line one person operated from the outset, or did the
screens serve some other purpose, and if so, what?

Yes it was. Train operation was completely automatic so the 'driver'
operated the doors and pressed a button to start the train and let it get on
with it.


--
Graeme Wall

This address not read, substitute trains for rail
Transport Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

"J Lynch" wrote in message
. uk...
"Graham Harrison" wrote in
message ...


"J Lynch" wrote in message
. uk...
From the day it was opened the Victoria Line was designed and built to
be operated by automatic trains (the 1967 stock). The Automatic Train
Operation technology used was tested on the District Line between
Ravenscourt Park and Hammersmith(?) stations in the early 1960s. From a
technical viewpoint it was / is not actually necessary to have someone
in the front cab at all, but it was deemed to be a step too far to have
"driverless" trains, as it would have upset passengers, (and caused some
staff relations issues), so the post of Automatic Train Operator (ATO)
was created. The ATO controls the opening and closing of doors at the
station and then presses two buttons on the console to initiate the ATO
"driving" process to the next station.



In the days when the other LT underground lines were all operated by a
crew of a motorman and a guard, there was a strict line of promotion.
Motormen got paid more than guards and ATOs got paid more than motormen,
so the people who became ATOs were the more senior staff who had longer
service with LT.





"Michael Bell" wrote in message
. uk...
In message
"Chris Read" wrote:

I've just watched the latest Video 125 drivers eye view, of the
Victoria
line. Included as a bonus was some archive film covering the
construction
and opening of the line. It appears that, from the outset, there were
CCTV
screens at platform end, giving operators a view of the platform.
However,
no mention was made of the purpose served by this facility.

So, was the Victoria line one person operated from the outset, or did
the
screens serve some other purpose, and if so, what?

Whilst not, on the face of it, the most interesting DEV subject, this
made
surprisingly good viewing. Notably, the crossover just outside Brixton
station being taken at full line speed by the 'auto pilot', which
apparently
leads trainee operators, transferring from other lines, to grab for
the
brake in panic!

Chris

Yes, so far as I know it was driver-only from the first.

Michael Bell


--



I thought the ATO tests were between Stamford Brook and Ravenscourt Park?

And weren't there also tests somewhere around Northfields and also at the
top of the Hainault Loop of the Central?

Thanks - you are right in what you say about the District Line and the
Central. Not sure about Northfields though...


Took a bit of googling but try this link and then hover over the picture of
some men doing track work. The wording is:

Automatic Train Operation (ATO) testing at South Ealing - small single seat
test trolley on track.

Photographed by H K Nolan, 19 Dec 1962

Image no: 3032/R/7

Inventory no: 1998/69540

Alternatively use this search term

london transport automatic train operation ato south ealing

in google and select the second link

I think that was before even the Ravenscourt Park test.

Thanks all. I had thought that DOO on the tube was a 1980s phenomenon.

Chris

In article ,
(Chris Read) wrote:

Thanks all. I had thought that DOO on the tube was a 1980s
phenomenon.

Young people today! :-)

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Apr 1, 10:25 pm, "Chris Read" wrote:
Thanks all. I had thought that DOO on the tube was a 1980s phenomenon.

Chris

minor nitpick

Its not called DOO on the underground, its called OPO. Well at least
its called OPO all the lines I'm involved with, which at the moment
does not include the Victoria. OPO is One Person Operation and applies
today on all lines whether ATO or not.

However, the rest of the answers above stand, Victoria was ATO with
only a train operator from the start.

/minor nitpick

--
Nick