Nothing about the strike. What are the RMT whinging about now?

Kevin.

Zen83237 wrote:
Nothing about the strike. What are the RMT whinging about now?

Brother Crow wants Correct Side Door Enable kit installed on the
Victoria Line, after an alleged 18 incidents of Train Operators opening
the doors on the non-platform side in the past four years.

It is left as an exercise for the reader as to whether:

a) Brother Crow's members should take responsibility for their actions,
rather than relying on (yet more) mods to the fleet and infrastructure
and blaming LU management for their mistakes.

b) Brother Crow and his members realise that they're getting a brand new
fleet of trains in the near future, presumably with CSDE fitted.

Cheers,

Barry

"Barry Salter" wrote in message
...
Zen83237 wrote:
Nothing about the strike. What are the RMT whinging about now?

Brother Crow wants Correct Side Door Enable kit installed on the Victoria
Line, after an alleged 18 incidents of Train Operators opening the doors
on the non-platform side in the past four years.

It is left as an exercise for the reader as to whether:

a) Brother Crow's members should take responsibility for their actions,
rather than relying on (yet more) mods to the fleet and infrastructure and
blaming LU management for their mistakes.

b) Brother Crow and his members realise that they're getting a brand new
fleet of trains in the near future, presumably with CSDE fitted.

Cheers,

Barry

or

c) Brother Crow has seen the weather forecast for this week.

a) Brother Crow's members should take responsibility for their actions,
rather than relying on (yet more) mods to the fleet and infrastructure and
blaming LU management for their mistakes.

b) Brother Crow and his members realise that they're getting a brand new
fleet of trains in the near future, presumably with CSDE fitted.

Cheers,

Barry

or

c) Brother Crow has seen the weather forecast for this week.



or d) Brother Crow has just got a 20% pay rise for Overground staff out
of Boris and co. and fancies pushing things as hard as he can to see how
tough the new boy is now Tim O'Toole is no longer around to spoil things
by being popular and reasonable.

Tom

On Apr 21, 9:42*pm, Barry Salter wrote:

Zen83237 wrote:
Nothing about the strike. What are the RMT whinging about now?

Brother Crow wants Correct Side Door Enable kit installed on the
Victoria Line, after an alleged 18 incidents of Train Operators opening
the doors on the non-platform side in the past four years.

It is left as an exercise for the reader as to whether:

a) Brother Crow's members should take responsibility for their actions,
rather than relying on (yet more) mods to the fleet and infrastructure
and blaming LU management for their mistakes.

Which is inevitably what the public at large are going to think - it's
certainly what I thought on first hearing about this, and indeed what
I still think (though I realise that there is of course more to it
than meets the eye, as always). This strike is hardly going to win
anyone over - quite the opposite, it'll just make people more hostile
to the RMT.


b) Brother Crow and his members realise that they're getting a brand new
fleet of trains in the near future, presumably with CSDE fitted.


Of course the RMT are well aware of point (b). They're just using this
issue to kick up a fuss. As this BBC News online story makes clear,
fitting CSDE to the old trains at this stage would be totally absurd:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8011617.stm

---/quote---
"A statement from TfL said: "London Underground has responded to each
of the RMT's issues, which should be resolved through the procedures
agreed with unions and without disruption to passengers.

"Correct side door enabling equipment is in place on the new Victoria
line trains which will come into service in the next year.

"To retrofit the equipment in the existing trains would be hugely
expensive and would take longer than the introduction of the new
trains."
---/quote---


However if you read the whole story you'll see that "General secretary
Bob Crow also accused the management of 'a culture of bullying and
harassment' of union members on the Victoria Line". This in and of
itself doesn't provide much insight - however, I found the thread
concerning the strike on the District Dave forum (frequented by a
number of LU operating staff amongst others) quite instructive - see:
http://districtdave.proboards.com/in...thread=107 13

There is some suggestion on that thread that the real issue here is
that LU now take a far harder line on train operators who mess up than
they used to - so whilst opening the doors on the wrong side in the
past may have previously been viewed as a lesser transgression, these
days it is treated far more seriously with harsher disciplinaries
(even with the threat of the sack lurking in the background).

So as one poster there says it is not the risk that has changed, more
how LU deals with such incidents. I dare say this may be at the root
of the matter, but then again not having any insider take on
proceedings who am I to know!

On Apr 21, 10:21*pm, Tom Barry wrote:

[snip]

or d) Brother Crow has just got a 20% pay rise for Overground staff out
of Boris and co. and fancies pushing things as hard as he can to see how
tough the new boy is now Tim O'Toole is no longer around to spoil things
by being popular and reasonable.


Interesting - I'd missed the pay rise for LO staff.

I've just read this piece by Wolmar on Tim O'Toole leaving the job -
the point Wolmar makes about O'Toole's "classless American accent"
helping him to communicate with staff at all levels is a good one,
especially when considering the relationship with the unions:
http://www.christianwolmar.co.uk/200...ail-extra-613/

On Apr 21, 11:19*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 21:42:08 +0100, Barry Salter
wrote:

Zen83237 wrote:
Nothing about the strike. What are the RMT whinging about now?

Brother Crow wants Correct Side Door Enable kit installed on the
Victoria Line, after an alleged 18 incidents of Train Operators opening
the doors on the non-platform side in the past four years.

It is left as an exercise for the reader as to whether:

a) Brother Crow's members should take responsibility for their actions,
rather than relying on (yet more) mods to the fleet and infrastructure
and blaming LU management for their mistakes.

b) Brother Crow and his members realise that they're getting a brand new
fleet of trains in the near future, presumably with CSDE fitted.

There are apparently 4 issues according to an internal notice. A way
forward had been agreed on three of the four.

You are correct that the new stock will have CSDE fitted.

I'm so looking forward to the journey to and from work tomorrow.
--
Paul C - regular Vic Line user

I've posted elsewhere on this thread about what lies behind the
strike. However I thought it'd be interesting, in light of the recent
discussion about Oyster PAYG and rail replacement buses, to note what
advice LU are giving about alternative routes that passengers can use
given that the line isn't running at all today.

The following is what appears on the 'live travel news' webpage:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/livetravel...e/default.html
---quote---
Victoria line

Suspended due to strike action.

London buses are accepting tickets via reasonable routes.

London Overground are accepting tickets via reasonable routes.
National Express East Anglia are accepting tickets between Victoria
line stations and Liverpool Street.
First Capital Connect are accepting tickets between Finsbury Park and
Moorgate and London Kings Cross.
South West Trains are accepting tickets between Vauxhall and Waterloo.
Southeastern are accepting tickets between Brixton and Victoria.
Southern Railway are accepting tickets between Balham and Victoria.
---/quote---


First off, some of those 'alternative' routes obviously aren't new
news as interavailable ticketing already applies on them - that is, on
NXEA between Seven Sisters/ Tottenham Hale/ Walthamstow Central and
Liverpool Street; on FCC between Finsbury Park and KX/ Moorgate; and
on London Overground - in each case LU single tickets and Oyster PAYG
can already be used on these mainline rail routes. (That's not to say
that the information shouldn't be provided in this manner - of course
it makes perfect sense to do so.)

What I am interested in is the apparent acceptance south of the river
(on SWT, Southeastern and Southern) of LU tickets. Obviously, if one
holds a printed LU ticket then that's simple enough (so long as the
gateline staff have been briefed on this of course!). And obviously if
one holds a season Travelcard on Oyster then there's no problem either
as it's already valid on National Rail.

But what about people using Oyster PAYG - which nowadays will be a
very high proportion of passengers (but as yet basically isn't valid
on NR routes south of the river). I wonder whether NR gateline staff
at Vauxhall, Waterloo, Balham and Victoria (no gates at Brixton NR)
really will get the message that they should just let passengers
brandishing Oyster cards through the gates?

In the future when Oyster PAYG is accepted on all NR routes then the
gates will of course open sesame on production of an Oyster card that
only holds PAYG credit - however the issue that would arise then would
be people being charged the higher NR or NR+LU PAYG fare, if as seems
likely the NR PAYG farescale is going to be higher than the LU
farescale. In such a circumstance I guess the passenger could get a
refund from Oyster card customer services if they could be bothered
(and had a registered card), though I'd think that most people
wouldn't bother as life is too short!

On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 03:29:27 -0700 (PDT)
Mizter T wrote:
than meets the eye, as always). This strike is hardly going to win
anyone over - quite the opposite, it'll just make people more hostile
to the RMT.

I think the london public dismissed the RMT as a bunch of unreconstructed
bolshevik troublemakers years ago. I doubt the general opinion could drop
much further. More fool LUL and LT for not nipping them in the bud years
ago instead of always caving in to some or all of their demands. A few
weeks of mass walkouts and trouble would have been preferable to endless
minor and not so minor strikes over the decades.

There is some suggestion on that thread that the real issue here is
that LU now take a far harder line on train operators who mess up than
they used to - so whilst opening the doors on the wrong side in the
past may have previously been viewed as a lesser transgression, these
days it is treated far more seriously with harsher disciplinaries
(even with the threat of the sack lurking in the background).

If someone doesn't know which side the platform is on then perhaps they're
not the right sort of person to drive a train. Its not as if they're
prevented from looking out their cab windows!

B2003

On Apr 22, 12:38*pm, wrote:

On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 03:29:27 -0700 (PDT)
Mizter T wrote:
than meets the eye, as always). This strike is hardly going to win
anyone over - quite the opposite, it'll just make people more hostile
to the RMT.

I think the london public dismissed the RMT as a bunch of unreconstructed
bolshevik troublemakers years ago. I doubt the general opinion could drop
much further. More fool LUL and LT for not nipping them in the bud years
ago instead of always caving in to some or all of their demands. A few
weeks of mass walkouts and trouble would have been preferable to endless
minor and not so minor strikes over the decades.

You think a big showdown might have worked? Interesting. If so then
any reason to suggest why it wouldn't work now?


There is some suggestion on that thread that the real issue here is
that LU now take a far harder line on train operators who mess up than
they used to - so whilst opening the doors on the wrong side in the
past may have previously been viewed as a lesser transgression, these
days it is treated far more seriously with harsher disciplinaries
(even with the threat of the sack lurking in the background).

If someone doesn't know which side the platform is on then perhaps they're
not the right sort of person to drive a train. Its not as if they're
prevented from looking out their cab windows!

That's similar to my initial thoughts. However, being generous, I can
imagine the potentially disorientating effect of operating a train in
a tunnel for lengthy periods of time, and the danger of going into
'auto-pilot' especially when the platforms are for the most part on
one side of the train.

On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 05:02:16 -0700 (PDT)
Mizter T wrote:
You think a big showdown might have worked? Interesting. If so then
any reason to suggest why it wouldn't work now?

Worked with the miners. A few months of trouble prevented us having power
cuts throughout the 80s like the *******s inflicted on us in the years
prior to the strike.

It might work now but it would be a lot harder because the RMT are probably
so used to getting their own way and so confident in their own ability to
arm twist that my guess is they'd take it all the way instead of backing
down and also they'd run sobbing to the media about how nasty LU is causing
everyone so much hassle by not giving in to their demands. And the broadcast
media generally being a load of left wing teapots and naturally sympathetic to
anyone sticking it to the man would probably let that claim pass without too
much scrutiny.

That's similar to my initial thoughts. However, being generous, I can
imagine the potentially disorientating effect of operating a train in
a tunnel for lengthy periods of time, and the danger of going into
'auto-pilot' especially when the platforms are for the most part on
one side of the train.

I suppose, but IMO if you're awake enough to open the doors in the first
place you should be awake enough to know where the platform is.

B2003