On May 5, 5:49*pm, D DB 90001 wrote:
Unfortunately even if they extend crossrail to Reading it still can't
replace all the stopping services because there are 2 stopping
services an hour from Oxford which call at many of the intermediate
stations. So then you would either have to electrify the line to
Oxford (ooh, look a flying pig)

Certain to happen under any proposed GWML electrification plan, so why
not bring it forward out of operational convenience?

or more realistically terminate slow
Oxford services at Reading and inconvenience passengers from
intermediate stations between Reading and Oxford.

....but I agree this is more likely. Will the remodelled Reading allow
easy cross-platform interchange between slow Oxford terminators and
London services?

Of course there is
the option of running the Oxford slow services under the wires on the
slows but this would take up valuable crossrail paths and of course
result in more diesels under wires which is a waste of fuel. And no,
I'm not even going to suggest that putting a loco on and off at
reading is a viable idea, because it's not going to happen.

Agreed.

Maybe in the short term they will continue to run under the wires
until more of the Great Western Mainline and branches are electrified
and then they can remove that anomaly. Talking of branches there would
still be the outstanding issue of Henley trains which would almost
certainly run under the wires in the peaks on the slows anyway,
because that branch will * never* be electrified.

No, that doesn't follow - it's quite possible there'll be a positive B/
CA for short stretches of electrification that remove the need for
long-ish diesel workings and allow the slow lines to be all-Crossrail,
once the core suburban network is electrified.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On May 6, 11:58*am, wrote:
On May 5, 5:49*pm, D DB 90001 wrote:

Unfortunately even if they extend crossrail to Reading it still can't
replace all the stopping services because there are 2 stopping
services an hour from Oxford which call at many of the intermediate
stations. So then you would either have to electrify the line to
Oxford (ooh, look a flying pig)

Certain to happen under any proposed GWML electrification plan, so why
not bring it forward out of operational convenience?

or more realistically terminate slow
Oxford services at Reading and inconvenience passengers from
intermediate stations between Reading and Oxford.

...but I agree this is more likely. Will the remodelled Reading allow
easy cross-platform interchange between slow Oxford terminators and
London services?

I'm not sure if that would be possible, but it would be the next best
thing, second only to electrification of the line to Oxford, which
admittedly *should* happen, but probably not until after crossrail.


Of course there is
the option of running the Oxford slow services under the wires on the
slows but this would take up valuable crossrail paths and of course
result in more diesels under wires which is a waste of fuel. And no,
I'm not even going to suggest that putting a loco on and off at
reading is a viable idea, because it's not going to happen.

Agreed.

Maybe in the short term they will continue to run under the wires
until more of the Great Western Mainline and branches are electrified
and then they can remove that anomaly. Talking of branches there would
still be the outstanding issue of Henley trains which would almost
certainly run under the wires in the peaks on the slows anyway,
because that branch will * never* be electrified.

No, that doesn't follow - it's quite possible there'll be a positive B/
CA for short stretches of electrification that remove the need for
long-ish diesel workings and allow the slow lines to be all-Crossrail,
once the core suburban network is electrified.


I'm not convinced about this, I can understand why they would want to
extend electrification to Reading, but not Henley, unless there were
regular through services, which is not currently under consideration.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot orgwww.johnband.org

D DB 90001 wrote:

I'm not sure if that would be possible, but it would be the next best
thing, second only to electrification of the line to Oxford, which
admittedly *should* happen, but probably not until after crossrail.


Of course the probability that *none* of this will happen is increasing
by the day.

On May 6, 2:33*pm, Tony Polson wrote:

D DB 90001 wrote:

I'm not sure if that would be possible, but it would be the next best
thing, second only to electrification of the line to Oxford, which
admittedly *should* happen, but probably not until after crossrail.

Of course the probability that *none* of this will happen is increasing
by the day.

I think John B is on the record as saying he'll eat a hat factory if
there hasn't been an announcement by the end of the year. That said,
perhaps he's calculated that there won't be any hat factories left!

Of course an announcement in the next year doesn't mean that what gets
announced will actually happen - the government's going to change next
May, and the Tories are talking about making lots of "hard
choices" (see the other thread about the purported Tory threat to
Crossrail... though I do wonder if this is a pre-emptive strike by
Boris & co or some other interested pro-Crossrail protagonist(s)... )

On May 6, 4:45*pm, Mizter T wrote:
Of course the probability that *none* of this will happen is increasing
by the day.

I think John B is on the record as saying he'll eat a hat factory if
there hasn't been an announcement by the end of the year. That said,
perhaps he's calculated that there won't be any hat factories left!

Hehe.

Electrification is an uncontroversially popular programme, except
among wilful contrarians ('Polsons'). The government is
uncontroversially screwed.

An announcement would very slightly reduce the extent by which the
government lost the next election, and it would also make the Tories
look like public-transport-hating, gas-guzzling *******s if they were
to cancel after winning.

Therefore, there is no reason for the government not to announce it,
and every reason for them to do so.

(it's possible that I'm underestimating the current government's
potential to do deliberately stupid things for no reason that makes
everyone hate it, c.f. Gurkhas. In which case I suppose I should look
into hat factory closing-down sales).

Of course an announcement in the next year doesn't mean that what gets
announced will actually happen - the government's going to change next
May, and the Tories are talking about making lots of "hard
choices" (see the other thread about the purported Tory threat to
Crossrail... though I do wonder if this is a pre-emptive strike by
Boris & co or some other interested pro-Crossrail protagonist(s)... )

If the recent Crossrail fuss isn't coming directly from Boris himself,
the campaign has conveniently forced him to nail his Crossrail colours
to the mast (as well as stitching up Blears, which is an excellent
pursuit in and of itself).

Given that the Tories will be nervous about winning next time round -
they were on track for an epic loss in 1983 after Thatcher failed to
halt the recession, right up until the mad Argentinian general invaded
- and that London is historic swing-land, which they need to hold to
keep the country, I'd be amazed to see Crossrail axed (the cost
doesn't matter one way or another: that kind of electoral calculus
always allows an extra few billion to be dug out of the woodwork).

GWML and MML electrification, although *actually* necessary and
although cancellation would be unpopular, aren't *electorally*
critical in the same way, so might indeed be canned when the Stupid
Party get in.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

In message
, at
09:51:46 on Wed, 6 May 2009, remarked:
Electrification is an uncontroversially popular programme, except
among wilful contrarians ('Polsons').

I thought the residents in the vicinity of Maidenhead were opposed to
the ugly looking OHL? Or have they come to terms with it now.
--
Roland Perry

Mizter T wrote:

I think John B is on the record as saying he'll eat a hat factory if
there hasn't been an announcement by the end of the year. That said,
perhaps he's calculated that there won't be any hat factories left!


That's probably the most useful thing John Band has ever said on here. I
sincerely hope he gets to keep his promise.


Of course an announcement in the next year doesn't mean that what gets
announced will actually happen - the government's going to change next
May, and the Tories are talking about making lots of "hard
choices"


NuLabour has been littered with announcements and re-announcements (and
re-re-announcements) of things they are going to do, but don't. This
will be no different.


(see the other thread about the purported Tory threat to
Crossrail... though I do wonder if this is a pre-emptive strike by
Boris & co or some other interested pro-Crossrail protagonist(s)... )


Boris is as much a thorn in the Tories' side as Ken was in Labour's. ;-)

wrote:

or more realistically terminate slow
Oxford services at Reading and inconvenience passengers from
intermediate stations between Reading and Oxford.

...but I agree this is more likely. Will the remodelled Reading allow
easy cross-platform interchange between slow Oxford terminators and
London services?



Highly unlikely to be cross platform, and may not even be on adjacent
islands, as far as the various drawings of the Reading layout show.

[There are no bays on any of the eventual four main islands following the
rebuild - as you may be aware of already.]

Paul S

On 6 May, 14:05, "Paul Scott" wrote:
wrote:
or more realistically terminate slow
Oxford services at Reading and inconvenience passengers from
intermediate stations between Reading and Oxford.

...but I agree this is more likely. Will the remodelled Reading allow
easy cross-platform interchange between slow Oxford terminators and
London services?

Highly unlikely to be cross platform, and may not even be on adjacent
islands, as far as the various drawings of the Reading layout show.

It won't be cross-platform - fast London's will leave from current
platforms 8 & 9, the slows / crossrail would be from the 3 extra
platforms (behind current Plat 9 and a further island platform to the
north of that.

"Chris" wrote

It won't be cross-platform - fast London's will leave from current
platforms 8 & 9, the slows / crossrail would be from the 3 extra
platforms (behind current Plat 9 and a further island platform to the
north of that.

AIUI existing 5 & 8 will be the Down Main platforms, 9 and a new face
opposite it will be theUp Main platforms, and the Relief/Crossrail platforms
will be two new islands beyond that.

Peter