On 11 May, 09:10, Tim Woodall wrote:
On Thu, 7 May 2009 22:35:08 +0100,
* * Recliner wrote:



"Mizter T" wrote in message


I'd be prepared to bet that if you were to do this you wouldn't find
that you'd been overcharged - in other words, the problem is with the
online journey history.

I'm wondering if it's possibly connected to the upgrade of the PAYG
system, and thus a resulting upgrade of the online journey history
system. Note that I'm not making any excuses though - it's certainly
not good enough, not least because it just ends up leaving punters
confused.

Yes, I thought it must be something like that. But given that this is
possibly a common fault, perhaps there should be an on-line warning of
potential errors, together with a simple way of reporting them?

Certainly, my first reaction was that there must have been some
expensive unresolved journeys, but it appears not. But I needed to do
some spreadsheet work to be sure.

I don't think I've had a correct day on the journey history since end of
March. Below is the current mess that it has for my journey history.

Currently it appears that Euston is not registering at all except for
Auto top-up. Also the pricing appears to have gone weird - why I'm being
debited 1.50 when I exit at Watford - which implies I'm being charged
2.00 at entry at Euston. I think it should be 5.00 debit at Euston
followed by 1.50 credit at Watford.

Previously to that it was Watford Junction that stopped registering at
all.

It's extremely hard confirm it's correct because there are days missing
- e.g. nothing has registered from Moorgate entry on 17/04 to Watford
Junction entry on 22/04 but there must have been at least 15GBP of
journeys for the Auto top-up to have triggered. Because I sometimes
travel before 06:30, sometimes don't do a normal journey - e.g. that
17/04 day where I did WJ-Moorgate; Moorgate-Euston - and I don't keep
a record of exactly when I travel where.

I know for a fact that occasionally exits can fail to register (I
believe it has happened on entry as well but I can only be 99% sure).
It's happened to my girlfriend the very first journey she made on PAYG.
I was explaining to her how it all worked and how you had to make sure
you always touched in and out. On that particular journey she exited via
the barriers at Watford Junction - I watched her open them with her
oyster card and walk through - but she ended up with an unresolved
journey. And because she's not that often in London and credits can only
be put back onto your card when you use an oyster gate, LUL "stole" that
money because she couldn't get her credit back within 8 weeks.

Tim.

* * **
* * *Date * * Time *Location * * * * Action * * * * Fare Price cap Balance
* * **
* * *08/05/09 06:12 Watford Junction Entry * * * - £4.00 * * * * * *£31.10
* * *07/05/09 21:11 Watford Junction Exit * * * *- £1.50 * * * * * *£35.10
* * * * * * * 06:09 Watford Junction Entry * * * - £4.00 * * * * * *£38.10
* * * * * * * 06:09 Watford Junction Auto top-up *£40.00 * * * * * *£42.10
* * *06/05/09 21:10 Watford Junction Exit * * * *- £1.50 * * * * * * £2.10
* * * * * * * 06:02 Watford Junction Entry * * * - £4.00 * * * * * * £5.10
* * *05/05/09 21:55 Watford Junction Exit * * * *- £1.50 * * * * * * £9.10
* * * * * * * 07:34 Watford Junction Entry * * * - £6.50 * * * * * *£12.10
* * *01/05/09 21:59 Watford Junction Exit * * * *- £1.50 * * * * * *£18.60
* * * * * * * 07:35 Watford Junction Entry * * * - £6.50 * * * * * *£21.60
* * *30/04/09 20:44 Watford Junction Exit * * * *- £1.50 * * * * * *£28.10
* * * * * * * 07:37 Watford Junction Entry * * * - £6.50 * * * * * *£31.10
* * *29/04/09 22:47 Watford Junction Exit * * * *- £1.50 * * * * * *£37.60
* * * * * * * 22:03 Euston NR * * * *Auto top-up *£40.00 * * * * * *£41.10
* * * * * * * 07:36 Watford Junction Entry * * * - £6.50 * * * * * * £0.60
* * *28/04/09 21:55 Watford Junction Exit * * * *- £1.50 * * * * * * £7.10
* * * * * * * 07:36 Watford Junction Entry * * * - £6.50 * * * * * *£10.10
* * *27/04/09 22:18 Watford Junction Exit * * * *- £1.50 * * * * * *£16.60
* * *24/04/09 05:58 Watford Junction Entry * * * - £4.00 * * * * * *£19.60
* * *22/04/09 19:28 Watford Junction Exit * * * *- £1.50 * * * * * *£33.10
* * * * * * * 07:36 Watford Junction Entry * * * - £6.50 * * * * * *£36.10
* * * * * * * 07:36 Watford Junction Auto top-up *£40.00 * * * * * *£42.60
* * *17/04/09 18:22 Moorgate * * * * Entry * * * - £4.00 * * * * * *£19.20
* * * * * * * 08:29 Moorgate * * * * Exit * * * * *£0.50 * * * * * *£23.20
* * * * * * * 07:38 Watford Junction Entry * * * - £6.50 * * * * * *£23.20
* * *15/04/09 19:38 Euston NR * * * *Auto top-up *£40.00 * * * * * *£42.70
* * *09/04/09 19:55 Euston NR * * * *Entry * * * - £5.00 * * * * * *£16.70
* * * * * * * 08:07 Euston NR * * * *Exit * * * *- £0.50 * * * * * *£21.70
* * *08/04/09 20:11 Euston NR * * * *Entry * * * - £5.00 * * * * * *£26.20
* * * * * * * 08:10 Euston NR * * * *Exit * * * *- £0.50 * * * * * *£31.20
* * *07/04/09 22:49 Euston NR * * * *Entry * * * - £5.00 * * * * * *£35.70
* * * * * * * 22:49 Euston NR * * * *Auto top-up *£40.00 * * * * * *£40.70
* * * * * * * 08:09 Euston NR * * * *Exit * * * *- £0.50 * * * * * * £0.70
* * *06/04/09 20:43 Euston NR * * * *Entry * * * - £5.00 * * * * * * £5.20
* * * * * * * 08:55 Euston NR * * * *Exit * * * *- £0.50 * * * * * *£10.20
* * *03/04/09 21:12 Euston NR * * * *Entry * * * - £5.00 * * * * * *£14.70
* * * * * * * 08:13 Euston NR * * * *Exit * * * *- £0.50 * * * * * *£19.70
* * *02/04/09 19:00 Euston NR * * * *Entry * * * - £5.00 * * * * * *£24.20
* * * * * * * 08:11 Euston NR * * * *Exit * * * *- £0.50 * * * * * *£29.20
* * *01/04/09 18:59 Euston NR * * * *Entry * * * - £5.00 * * * * * *£33.70
* * * * * * * 08:09 Euston NR * * * *Exit * * * * *£0.50 * * * * * *£38.70
* * *31/03/09 21:08 Euston NR * * * *Entry * * * - £5.00 * * * * * * £3.20
* * * * * * * 08:18 Euston NR * * * *Exit * * * *- £0.50 * * * * * * £8.20
* * *30/03/09 19:00 Euston NR * * * *Entry * * * - £5.00 * * * * * *£12.70
* * * * * * * 08:12 Euston NR * * * *Exit * * * * *£0.50 * * * * * *£17.70
* * * * * * * 07:35 Watford Junction Entry * * * - £6.50 * * * * * *£17.20

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

*http://www.woodall.me.uk/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Tim

\What makes you think that TFL will not send you a cheque for oyster
refunds if you a) have a registered card and b) ask very nicely
explaining why there is a problem?
If doing so I suggest that you ask the person Do they work for TFL or
are thay a subcontractor?
HTH Phil

On Wed, 13 May 2009 00:51:44 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Tim

\What makes you think that TFL will not send you a cheque for oyster
refunds if you a) have a registered card and b) ask very nicely
explaining why there is a problem?

Indeed. Despite using 1 tube station daily, I was sent a cheque for a
system failure in 2005. The person on the other end of the line was in
a hurry to quit so her manager waded through her stuff and sorted out
debts by cheque as there was no record made of preferred refund means.

I was surprised but all that was explained in a cover letter. Not
quite as I phrased it (didn't keep the letter - wasn't a regular to
utm in those days).

--
Old anti-spam address cmylod at despammed dot com appears broke
So back to cmylod at bigfoot dot com

On Wed, 13 May 2009 23:36:07 +0100,
Colum Mylod wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2009 00:51:44 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Tim

\What makes you think that TFL will not send you a cheque for oyster
refunds if you a) have a registered card and b) ask very nicely
explaining why there is a problem?

Indeed. Despite using 1 tube station daily, I was sent a cheque for a
system failure in 2005. The person on the other end of the line was in
a hurry to quit so her manager waded through her stuff and sorted out
debts by cheque as there was no record made of preferred refund means.


It obviously depends on who you get on the phone. She was told it was
_IMPOSSIBLE_ to do a refund other than by her visiting a nominated
station to pick it up. As that would, best case, have involved a 20GBP
round trip train fare to collect about 2GBP it wasn't worth it.

It's a common problem with railway staff (it happens in other industries
as well but the railways seem to be worse than most) deciding that
something can't be done.

Some years ago when I had an annual season ticket it had faded to the
point of almost complete unreadability. The guards at the barrier at
Euston kept telling me to get it replaced and pointing me to the window.
But _every_ time the person on the window said it was _IMPOSSIBLE_ and I
had to post off my ticket and, in the mean time, buy daily ticket and
then get a refund once I got my ticket back. On about the sixth or
seventh time (This time I was arguing with the guards rather than
joining the queue AGAIN to achieve nothing) their
manager/supervisor/whatever got involved and came with me to the ticket
window. Lo and behold, suddenly, what had been impossible took about
three minutes. I cannot comprehend why I had been given the runaround
before. It really didn't seem difficult at all, the only minor issue
seemed to be that the teller didn't have any gold card stock immediately
to hand and had to fetch it from somewhere else.

In future years when my ticket faded I _knew_ that the tellers could do
it and I wouldn't leave the ticket window until they sorted it out.

Bank Holiday weekend I was told there were "no tickets at all from
Victoria to Horsham." If I hadn't known to say "Try London Terminals to
Horsham" then I don't know what would have happened (probably been
forced to queue for hours at Victoria to buy my ticket instead of
getting it in advance)

Likewise with these oyster refunds. What do you do when you're told it
is _IMPOSSIBLE_? One of my US collegues was told that because he'd
topped up his card using both cash and credit card, the _ONLY_ way to
get a refund on the remaining balance was to fill in a form and then,
several weeks later, get a GBP denominated cheque posted to his home
address. I can see why a cash refund might not be allowed but surely it
could be refunded to the credit card? (Instead he found someone in the
office willing to buy it off him.)

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://www.woodall.me.uk/