NLL history query
 

Some people who've lived near the NLL for longer than I have are telling
me that some 10 or possibly 15 years ago, the North London Line (or part
of it) was closed *for two years* while the track was upgraded for use
by Regional Eurostars (e.g. to enable them to get from the WLL near
North Pole to the ECML). I've read that lots of money was spent on
infrastructure improvements for Regional Eurostars, in addition to
building the trains themselves, and it seems plausible that this
included some track renewals or other work on the NLL.

But two years' closure? Not only does that seem excessive and unlikely,
but I can find no mention of it in online articles on the NLL. Can
anyone shed any light on the matter, preferably with references, online
or otherwise? If the track was renewed in the '90s, was other work
done at the same time, e.g. on signalling or power supplies?

--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

NLL history query
 

"Richard J." wrote in message
om
Some people who've lived near the NLL for longer than I have are
telling me that some 10 or possibly 15 years ago, the North London
Line (or part of it) was closed *for two years* while the track was
upgraded for use by Regional Eurostars (e.g. to enable them to get
from the WLL near North Pole to the ECML). I've read that lots of
money was spent on infrastructure improvements for Regional
Eurostars, in addition to building the trains themselves, and it
seems plausible that this included some track renewals or other work
on the NLL.
But two years' closure? Not only does that seem excessive and
unlikely, but I can find no mention of it in online articles on the
NLL. Can anyone shed any light on the matter, preferably with
references, online or otherwise? If the track was renewed in the
'90s, was other work done at the same time, e.g. on signalling or
power supplies?

I don't think the whole line was closed for any extended period, but
there certainly were a local of local closures. For example, a lot of
OHLE was installed, tunnels were widened and track lowered, probably all
the track was re-laid, etc. I'm not sure how much of this was for the
regional E* trains, and how much just to handle the increased use by
other trains, both freight and pax.

NLL history query
 

[crossposted to uk.railway]
[original thread on uk.rtransport.london]

On May 25, 9:31*pm, "Richard J." wrote:
Some people who've lived near the NLL for longer than I have are telling
me that some 10 or possibly 15 years ago, the North London Line (or part
of it) was closed *for two years* while the track was upgraded for use
by Regional Eurostars (e.g. to enable them to get from the WLL near
North Pole to the ECML). *I've read that lots of money was spent on
infrastructure improvements for Regional Eurostars, in addition to
building the trains themselves, and it seems plausible that this
included some track renewals or other work on the NLL.

But two years' closure? *Not only does that seem excessive and unlikely,
but I can find no mention of it in online articles on the NLL. *Can
anyone shed any light on the matter, preferably with references, online
or otherwise? * If the track was renewed in the '90s, was other work
done at the same time, e.g. on signalling or power supplies?


I've crossposted this to uk.railway, where others might have a better
idea of what happened when and how long it took. However, I don't
think there was anything like a two year closure, not even remotely
close.

The nearest I can think of with regards to a lengthly closure is the
1990's closure of the Hampstead tunnel - between Finchley Road &
Frognal and Hampstead Heath stations - for the installation of
overhead lines, which involved significant infrastructure works to
lower the tracks so as to accommodate the OHLE. In a splendid example
of short-sightedness, this work didn't create sufficient clearances
for larger containers to traverse said tunnel, so it was closed again
in autumn '08 for twelve or so weeks for further works to improve
clearances.

For what it's worth, the NLL passenger service was used rather more
lightly back in those days - however I think the upwards trend in
patronage began in earnest in the early/mid 90's.

NLL history query
 

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...
[crossposted to uk.railway]
[original thread on uk.rtransport.london]

On May 25, 9:31 pm, "Richard J." wrote:
Some people who've lived near the NLL for longer than I have are telling
me that some 10 or possibly 15 years ago, the North London Line (or part
of it) was closed *for two years* while the track was upgraded for use
by Regional Eurostars (e.g. to enable them to get from the WLL near
North Pole to the ECML). I've read that lots of money was spent on
infrastructure improvements for Regional Eurostars, in addition to
building the trains themselves, and it seems plausible that this
included some track renewals or other work on the NLL.

But two years' closure? Not only does that seem excessive and unlikely,
but I can find no mention of it in online articles on the NLL. Can
anyone shed any light on the matter, preferably with references, online
or otherwise? If the track was renewed in the '90s, was other work
done at the same time, e.g. on signalling or power supplies?


I've crossposted this to uk.railway, where others might have a better
idea of what happened when and how long it took. However, I don't
think there was anything like a two year closure, not even remotely
close.

The nearest I can think of with regards to a lengthly closure is the
1990's closure of the Hampstead tunnel - between Finchley Road &
Frognal and Hampstead Heath stations - for the installation of
overhead lines, which involved significant infrastructure works to
lower the tracks so as to accommodate the OHLE. In a splendid example
of short-sightedness, this work didn't create sufficient clearances
for larger containers to traverse said tunnel, so it was closed again
in autumn '08 for twelve or so weeks for further works to improve
clearances.

For what it's worth, the NLL passenger service was used rather more
lightly back in those days - however I think the upwards trend in
patronage began in earnest in the early/mid 90's.
---------
I can't be certain about precise dates for temporary closure and reopening,
but the line was shown as closed between Stratford and North Woolwich in the
Summer 1994 and the Winter 1994-95 GBRTT (i.e. May 1994 - May 1995) for
'work on the Jubilee Line extension'. This section was bustituted, though no
bus times are shown in the timetable. Then for the duration of the Summer
1996 timetable (June - September 1996) the line was closed between Camden
Road and Willesden Junction HL. Trains were diverted via Primrose Hill to
Wlllesden Junction LL Bay, and bustituted between Camden Road and Gospel
Oak, and between Brondesbury, Kilburn (Jubilee Line) and Willesden Junction,
with no service shown between Gospel Oak and Kilburn/Brondesbury. It was
also bustituted on Sundays between Willesden Junction and Gunnersbury, with
customers advised to use LUL between Gunnersbury and Richmond, with a note
that this was also likely to happen on weekdays for a limited period. As
well as lowering the trackbed in Hampstead Heath tunnel the work involved
re-electrifying the line between Acton Central and Camden Road at 25 kV
OHLE.

Peter

NLL history query
 

Peter Masson wrote:


"Mizter T" wrote in message
...
[crossposted to uk.railway]
[original thread on uk.rtransport.london]

On May 25, 9:31 pm, "Richard J." wrote:
Some people who've lived near the NLL for longer than I have are telling
me that some 10 or possibly 15 years ago, the North London Line (or part
of it) was closed *for two years* while the track was upgraded for use
by Regional Eurostars (e.g. to enable them to get from the WLL near
North Pole to the ECML). I've read that lots of money was spent on
infrastructure improvements for Regional Eurostars, in addition to
building the trains themselves, and it seems plausible that this
included some track renewals or other work on the NLL.

But two years' closure? Not only does that seem excessive and unlikely,
but I can find no mention of it in online articles on the NLL. Can
anyone shed any light on the matter, preferably with references, online
or otherwise? If the track was renewed in the '90s, was other work
done at the same time, e.g. on signalling or power supplies?


I've crossposted this to uk.railway, where others might have a better
idea of what happened when and how long it took. However, I don't
think there was anything like a two year closure, not even remotely
close.

The nearest I can think of with regards to a lengthly closure is the
1990's closure of the Hampstead tunnel - between Finchley Road &
Frognal and Hampstead Heath stations - for the installation of
overhead lines, which involved significant infrastructure works to
lower the tracks so as to accommodate the OHLE. In a splendid example
of short-sightedness, this work didn't create sufficient clearances
for larger containers to traverse said tunnel, so it was closed again
in autumn '08 for twelve or so weeks for further works to improve
clearances.

For what it's worth, the NLL passenger service was used rather more
lightly back in those days - however I think the upwards trend in
patronage began in earnest in the early/mid 90's.
---------
I can't be certain about precise dates for temporary closure and
reopening, but the line was shown as closed between Stratford and North
Woolwich in the Summer 1994 and the Winter 1994-95 GBRTT (i.e. May 1994
- May 1995) for 'work on the Jubilee Line extension'. This section was
bustituted, though no bus times are shown in the timetable. Then for the
duration of the Summer 1996 timetable (June - September 1996) the line
was closed between Camden Road and Willesden Junction HL. Trains were
diverted via Primrose Hill to Wlllesden Junction LL Bay, and bustituted
between Camden Road and Gospel Oak, and between Brondesbury, Kilburn
(Jubilee Line) and Willesden Junction, with no service shown between
Gospel Oak and Kilburn/Brondesbury. It was also bustituted on Sundays
between Willesden Junction and Gunnersbury, with customers advised to
use LUL between Gunnersbury and Richmond, with a note that this was also
likely to happen on weekdays for a limited period. As well as lowering
the trackbed in Hampstead Heath tunnel the work involved re-electrifying
the line between Acton Central and Camden Road at 25 kV OHLE.

Peter

I can't shed much light here, but I can say with certainty that
Hampstead Tunnel was closed during the summer of 1996 - I joined NLL
re-electrification project in its final stages in around June of that
year, went through the tunnel on more than one occasion, and travelled
on the first electric test train along the route that September.

NLL history query
 

Peter Masson wrote on 25 May 2009 22:39:14 ...

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...
[crossposted to uk.railway]
[original thread on uk.transport.london]

On May 25, 9:31 pm, "Richard J." wrote:
Some people who've lived near the NLL for longer than I have are telling
me that some 10 or possibly 15 years ago, the North London Line (or part
of it) was closed *for two years* while the track was upgraded for use
by Regional Eurostars (e.g. to enable them to get from the WLL near
North Pole to the ECML). I've read that lots of money was spent on
infrastructure improvements for Regional Eurostars, in addition to
building the trains themselves, and it seems plausible that this
included some track renewals or other work on the NLL.

But two years' closure? Not only does that seem excessive and unlikely,
but I can find no mention of it in online articles on the NLL. Can
anyone shed any light on the matter, preferably with references, online
or otherwise? If the track was renewed in the '90s, was other work
done at the same time, e.g. on signalling or power supplies?

I've crossposted this to uk.railway, where others might have a better
idea of what happened when and how long it took. However, I don't
think there was anything like a two year closure, not even remotely
close.

The nearest I can think of with regards to a lengthly closure is the
1990's closure of the Hampstead tunnel - between Finchley Road &
Frognal and Hampstead Heath stations - for the installation of
overhead lines, which involved significant infrastructure works to
lower the tracks so as to accommodate the OHLE.
[snip]

I can't be certain about precise dates for temporary closure and reopening,
but ... for the duration of the Summer
1996 timetable (June - September 1996) the line was closed between Camden
Road and Willesden Junction HL. Trains were diverted via Primrose Hill to
Wlllesden Junction LL Bay, and bustituted between Camden Road and Gospel
Oak, and between Brondesbury, Kilburn (Jubilee Line) and Willesden Junction,
with no service shown between Gospel Oak and Kilburn/Brondesbury. It was
also bustituted on Sundays between Willesden Junction and Gunnersbury, with
customers advised to use LUL between Gunnersbury and Richmond, with a note
that this was also likely to happen on weekdays for a limited period. As
well as lowering the trackbed in Hampstead Heath tunnel the work involved
re-electrifying the line between Acton Central and Camden Road at 25 kV
OHLE.

Thanks guys for this info. I've just found an article from Construction
News that suggests that the blockade for the Hampstead Tunnel works
started earlier than June 1996. In an article dated 30 Nov 1995, it
says "Work began in September [1995]. For the first two months, [the
contractor's] time on site was restricted to 46-hour possessions each
weekend, because normal weekday services were being operated on the NLL.
Now the line is shut down in the vicinity of the Hampstead tunnel, which
makes life easier for the contractor: currently six 12-hour shifts are
being run each week." It goes on to describe the work including major
reconstruction of the cut-and-cover section at the western end of the
tunnel. So it seems that the blockade ran from November 1995. Anyone
know definitely when the line was reopened?

--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

NLL history query
 

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...

It's certainly the case that there were substantial works in the
Hampstead Heath tunnel - I don't recall the particular scope but I
believe it was Eurostar related. The fact that the Hampstead tunnel was
closed for months last year stretched the patience of locals who
remembered the works being done the first time round.

I was surprised to re-read recently (in a RM from last autumn) that the new
Eurostar depot at Temple Mills cost about the same amount (approx £400m) as
the further upgrades that would have been required to allow the required ECS
movements between St Pancras and North Pole, at the same time as the current
NLL and WLL services.

Paul