Tube challenge Oyster PAYG
 

Just seen on another forum that members are arranging a Zone 1 (except
Blackfriars) 'Tube challenge' where they aim to visit all stations in
the shortest possible time for a competition between members (not a
world record attempt or anything).

It has been raised that there may be problems with Oyster PAYG and that
users should instead buy a z1-2 Travelcard. What would happen if someone
touched in and didn't touch out again for say 3 hours, even then they
may touch out at a different location? Would there be the £4 minimum
charge or would something else happen?

Cheers

Tube challenge Oyster PAYG
 

"Commuter" wrote in message
...
Just seen on another forum that members are arranging a Zone 1 (except
Blackfriars) 'Tube challenge' where they aim to visit all stations in
the shortest possible time for a competition between members (not a
world record attempt or anything).

It has been raised that there may be problems with Oyster PAYG and
that users should instead buy a z1-2 Travelcard. What would happen if
someone touched in and didn't touch out again for say 3 hours, even
then they may touch out at a different location? Would there be the £4
minimum charge or would something else happen?

You would be charged two £4 fares. The system would consider the touch
in and touch out to be two separate journeys as they are more than 2.5
hours apart.

Peter Smyth

Tube challenge Oyster PAYG
 

On Jun 18, 12:06*am, "Peter Smyth" wrote:

"Commuter" wrote:

Just seen on another forum that members are arranging a Zone 1 (except
Blackfriars) 'Tube challenge' where they aim to visit all stations in
the shortest possible time for a competition between members (not a
world record attempt or anything).

It has been raised that there may be problems with Oyster PAYG and
that users should instead buy a z1-2 Travelcard. What would happen if
someone touched in and didn't touch out again for say 3 hours, even
then they may touch out at a different location? Would there be the £4
minimum charge or would something else happen?

You would be charged two £4 fares. The system would consider the touch
in and touch out to be two separate journeys as they are more than 2.5
hours apart.

Indeed - though come September it seems as though new variable time
limits will be introduced that will vary according to the distance
travelled (calculated as the number of zones travelled through) -
which will in effect make the time limit a tad tighter for a great
many journeys, though still nothing that any normal A-to-B passenger
would ever need to concern themselves with.

Buying a Day Travelcard is the simplest way of avoiding any issues
about Oyster PAYG journeys 'timing out'.

Tube challenge Oyster PAYG
 

In message , at 00:06:13 on Thu, 18
Jun 2009, Peter Smyth remarked:
Just seen on another forum that members are arranging a Zone 1
(except Blackfriars) 'Tube challenge' where they aim to visit all
stations in the shortest possible time for a competition between
members (not a world record attempt or anything).

It has been raised that there may be problems with Oyster PAYG and
that users should instead buy a z1-2 Travelcard. What would happen if
someone touched in and didn't touch out again for say 3 hours, even
then they may touch out at a different location? Would there be the £4
minimum charge or would something else happen?

You would be charged two £4 fares. The system would consider the touch
in and touch out to be two separate journeys as they are more than 2.5
hours apart.

But there must be some opportunities for "quick touches". For example at
Farringdon where there are validators on the platform (for transfer to
Thameslink).

I assume touching one of those twice would end one journey then start a
new one.
--
Roland Perry

Tube challenge Oyster PAYG
 

On Jun 18, 6:38*am, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 00:06:13 on Thu, 18
Jun 2009, Peter Smyth remarked:

Just seen on another forum that members are arranging a Zone 1
(except *Blackfriars) 'Tube challenge' where they aim to visit all
stations in *the shortest possible time for a competition between
members (not a *world record attempt or anything).

It has been raised that there may be problems with Oyster PAYG and
that users should instead buy a z1-2 Travelcard. What would happen if
someone touched in and didn't touch out again for say 3 hours, even
then they may touch out at a different location? Would there be the £4
minimum charge or would something else happen?

You would be charged two £4 fares. The system would consider the touch
in and touch out to be two separate journeys as they are more than 2.5
hours apart.

But there must be some opportunities for "quick touches". For example at
Farringdon where there are validators on the platform (for transfer to
Thameslink).

I assume touching one of those twice would end one journey then start a
new one.

You assume wrong. Standalone validators can be set up in different
ways - those within paid areas, such as the ones on the platform at
Farringdon will (almost certainly) be set up in 'interchange mode' -
if there is an open journey on the Oyster card, then touching on one
of these provides a 'soft exit' from the system, i.e. it means that if
that's that the journey will be regarded as resolved, however it also
leaves the journey open should the passenger merely be interchanging
and then travelling onwards. Note that at the moment this does *not*
top-up the original journey time-limit - presently that stays at two
and a half hours from the original touch-in to the system, though come
September the whole system of calculating the maximum allowable time
for a journey gets rather more sophisticated.

Note that these validators within paid areas are essentially only
there so as to provide a way of allowing people who have arrived with
a National Rail paper ticket to touch-in their Oyster without having
to exit and then re-enter the gates (or v.v. so they can touch-out of
the Oyster system and end their journey before using their NR paper
ticket). However come September when modifications to the system are
due to occur, one may be able to touch on one of these standalone
validators when interchanging so as to ensure one pays for a cheaper A-
to-B journey - e.g. if one has avoided zone 1 (the classic location
for doing this would be Willesden Jn).

These standalone validators have been subject of much previous
discussion here on utl including contributions from a man who knows a
fair bit about them (to say the least) so my words are not mere
speculation.

Tube challenge Oyster PAYG
 

In message
, at
02:44:08 on Thu, 18 Jun 2009, Mizter T remarked:
Standalone validators can be set up in different
ways - those within paid areas, such as the ones on the platform at
Farringdon will (almost certainly) be set up in 'interchange mode' -
if there is an open journey on the Oyster card, then touching on one
of these provides a 'soft exit' from the system, i.e. it means that if
that's that the journey will be regarded as resolved, however it also
leaves the journey open should the passenger merely be interchanging
and then travelling onwards. Note that at the moment this does *not*
top-up the original journey time-limit - presently that stays at two
and a half hours from the original touch-in to the system, though come
September the whole system of calculating the maximum allowable time
for a journey gets rather more sophisticated.

Does the journey get resolved after the timeout (if you haven't touched
elsewhere)? I guess it must, otherwise if you went from KGX to
Farringdon on the Circle, touched, then went Farringdon to Brighton on a
paper ticket you already had, you'd be charged for an unresolved
journey.
--
Roland Perry

Tube challenge Oyster PAYG
 

On Jun 18, 6:54*pm, Roland Perry wrote:

In message
, at
02:44:08 on Thu, 18 Jun 2009, Mizter T remarked:

Standalone validators can be set up in different
ways - those within paid areas, such as the ones on the platform at
Farringdon will (almost certainly) be set up in 'interchange mode' -
if there is an open journey on the Oyster card, then touching on one
of these provides a 'soft exit' from the system, i.e. it means that if
that's that the journey will be regarded as resolved, however it also
leaves the journey open should the passenger merely be interchanging
and then travelling onwards. Note that at the moment this does *not*
top-up the original journey time-limit - presently that stays at two
and a half hours from the original touch-in to the system, though come
September the whole system of calculating the maximum allowable time
for a journey gets rather more sophisticated.

Does the journey get resolved after the timeout (if you haven't touched
elsewhere)? I guess it must, otherwise if you went from KGX to
Farringdon on the Circle, touched, then went Farringdon to Brighton on a
paper ticket you already had, you'd be charged for an unresolved
journey.

Yes - well, in effect yes, though there isn't actually a clock
counting down the minutes buried in the Oyster card. In essence I
think the card is left in a state whereby the journey *could* be
continued.

Nobody making a through PAYG journey who is merely interchanging at
Farringdon need touch on the validator, but the design of the system
sensibly assumes that people will even if they don't need to and so is
designed to tolerate this. And, as I said earlier, in some cases in
the near future passengers may specifically be requested to touch on
such a validator within a paid-area so as to prove they went one way
rather than another, thus enabling them to take advantage of the
cheaper (i.e. non-zone 1) fare.

Tube challenge Oyster PAYG
 

Mizter T wrote:

Nobody making a through PAYG journey who is merely interchanging at
Farringdon need touch on the validator, but the design of the system
sensibly assumes that people will even if they don't need to and so is
designed to tolerate this. And, as I said earlier, in some cases in
the near future passengers may specifically be requested to touch on
such a validator within a paid-area so as to prove they went one way
rather than another, thus enabling them to take advantage of the
cheaper (i.e. non-zone 1) fare.

Prediction. Just after they announce that, someone will come along here and
complain that it isn't on, because his movements are now being tracked more
accurately by 'big brother' TfL...

Paul S

Tube challenge Oyster PAYG
 

Commuter wrote:
Just seen on another forum that members are arranging a Zone 1 (except
Blackfriars) 'Tube challenge' where they aim to visit all stations in
the shortest possible time for a competition between members (not a
world record attempt or anything).

It has been raised that there may be problems with Oyster PAYG and that
users should instead buy a z1-2 Travelcard. What would happen if someone
touched in and didn't touch out again for say 3 hours, even then they
may touch out at a different location? Would there be the £4 minimum
charge or would something else happen?

As with any tube challenge (be it the Zone 1, Alphabet, All Lines,
Random 15, or even the full 270 or so), use of Oyster PAYG is strongly
discouraged, due to the maximum journey time of 2.5 hours.

Incidentally, the current fastest known time for a Zone 1 Challenge is 2
hours 45 minutes and 11 seconds, and AFAIK that's been entirely inside
the "paid" area of the network.

Incidentally, the "classic" start for an All Stations challenge from
Amersham takes over 3 hours to get into town, and once you get into
town, you tend to go for a lot longer without passing a gateline or
validator, risking several unresolved journeys.

Cheers,

Barry

Tube challenge Oyster PAYG
 

In article ,
(Barry Salter) wrote:

Incidentally, the "classic" start for an All Stations challenge
from Amersham takes over 3 hours to get into town, and once you get
into town, you tend to go for a lot longer without passing a
gateline or validator, risking several unresolved journeys.

We started at Upminster and walked from Watford Junction to Watford (Met).
I think we took a bus between Amersham and Chesham.

But that was in 1970.

--
Colin Rosenstiel