Class 378s into service this week?
 

On Jul 8, 8:24*pm, D7666 wrote:
On Jul 8, 7:59*pm, Tony Polson wrote:

I ask because, like Nick, I would have thought that the Watford-Euston
DC route was more important than the North London Line.

Just look at the overcrowding

I did not say the Euston route was the most important to have 378s, I
said it was the most important route, and its importance means it
should NOT have them early.

I would argue that the priority for NLL to have 378s to relieve over
crowding is not the same as it being the most important route to avoid
having a 378 on, but it is more important to get it tright.

If the Euston Watford service were not there, the Bakerloo would be
desperately over loaded beyond capacity; the NLL is simply crowded.

A brand new out of the packet 378 failing during warranty / mileage
accumulation / crews-ramping-up-routine-familiarisation would screw
the Bakerloo completely if it happened in the wrong place i.e. between
Queens and Stonebridge Parks say just before the pm peak and stranding
X number of Bakerloo sets in depot. Bear in mind that 377/5s are
capably failing mosdt days every week of bringing TL core to a halt
for up to half an hour at a time for the most trivial issues, then
378s might be the same.

Thats why I think the Euston DC route is more important *- not to have
378s (I never implied that) but because it is a more important route
full stop.

--
Nick

OOps, apologies Tony, I cut too many quotes, looks like I'm quoting
all as if you said it, of course thats not right. I'm sure you know
what I meant to leave as quoted quotes.

--
Nick

Class 378s into service this week?
 

D7666 wrote:

On Jul 8, 8:24*pm, D7666 wrote:
On Jul 8, 7:59*pm, Tony Polson wrote:

I ask because, like Nick, I would have thought that the Watford-Euston
DC route was more important than the North London Line.

Just look at the overcrowding

I did not say the Euston route was the most important to have 378s, I
said it was the most important route, and its importance means it
should NOT have them early.

I would argue that the priority for NLL to have 378s to relieve over
crowding is not the same as it being the most important route to avoid
having a 378 on, but it is more important to get it tright.

If the Euston Watford service were not there, the Bakerloo would be
desperately over loaded beyond capacity; the NLL is simply crowded.

A brand new out of the packet 378 failing during warranty / mileage
accumulation / crews-ramping-up-routine-familiarisation would screw
the Bakerloo completely if it happened in the wrong place i.e. between
Queens and Stonebridge Parks say just before the pm peak and stranding
X number of Bakerloo sets in depot. Bear in mind that 377/5s are
capably failing mosdt days every week of bringing TL core to a halt
for up to half an hour at a time for the most trivial issues, then
378s might be the same.

Thats why I think the Euston DC route is more important *- not to have
378s (I never implied that) but because it is a more important route
full stop.

--
Nick

OOps, apologies Tony, I cut too many quotes, looks like I'm quoting
all as if you said it, of course thats not right. I'm sure you know
what I meant to leave as quoted quotes.


No need to apologise, Nick, it was quite clear what you meant. It is an
interesting discussion; I am considering working in London and it would
mean a house move, so I am looking at a few alternative locations that
would keep commuting to a minimum.

Class 378s into service this week?
 

On Jul 8, 8:24*pm, D7666 wrote:
On Jul 8, 7:59*pm, Tony Polson wrote:

I ask because, like Nick, I would have thought that the Watford-Euston
DC route was more important than the North London Line.

Just look at the overcrowding

I did not say the Euston route was the most important to have 378s, I
said it was the most important route, and its importance means it
should NOT have them early.

I would argue that the priority for NLL to have 378s to relieve over
crowding is not the same as it being the most important route to avoid
having a 378 on, but it is more important to get it tright.

If the Euston Watford service were not there, the Bakerloo would be
desperately over loaded beyond capacity; the NLL is simply crowded.


I really don't think that's the case. The NLL is the route that you
can't get on during the peaks. The 313s on the DC lines have a
capacity of 202 seated, the refurbished 1972 Mk II stock has a
capacity of 276 seated.During the peaks, the Bakerloo line runs every
6-7 mins to Stonebridge Park (SP) with 1 out of 3 trains running to
Harrow & Wealdstone (interval 9-11 mins). The basic pattern is LO
train, Bakerloo - SP, Bakerloo - H&W, Bakerloo - SP and repeat.

So in the busy part of the line, the Bakerloo has 828 seats every 20
mins compared to LO's 202 and the 313s provide 20% of the seated
capacity and with less standing room as well having fewer doorways for
people to stand in . I've never had any problem with overcrowding on
the Bakerloo during the peak, some carriages get crowded due to people
not moving down the platform, but there has always been space
somewhere. Even during the various LM disruptions the Bakerloo
capacity line was OK in the mornings.

A brand new out of the packet 378 failing during warranty / mileage
accumulation / crews-ramping-up-routine-familiarisation would screw
the Bakerloo completely if it happened in the wrong place i.e. between
Queens and Stonebridge Parks say just before the pm peak and stranding
X number of Bakerloo sets in depot. Bear in mind that 377/5s are
capably failing mosdt days every week of bringing TL core to a halt
for up to half an hour at a time for the most trivial issues, then
378s might be the same.

Thats why I think the Euston DC route is more important *- not to have
378s (I never implied that) but because it is a more important route
full stop.


I do agree with the reasoning for not having the units introduced on
the DC lines first, especially as I made a similar point in my reply
to Mister T's post. ;)

Class 378s into service this week?
 

On Jul 8, 9:01*pm, Andy wrote:

Thats why I think the Euston DC route is more important *- not to have
378s (I never implied that) but because it is a more important route
full stop.

I do agree with the reasoning for not having the units introduced on
the DC lines first, especially as I made a similar point in my reply
to Mister T's post. ;)- Hide quoted text -


Errr yes you did, sorry, I should have said I was restating it.

Perhaps I should have been more clear in my very first comment as this
is what was driving it.

--
Nick

Class 378s into service this week?
 

On Jul 8, 8:24*pm, D7666 wrote:
If the Euston Watford service were not there, the Bakerloo would be
desperately over loaded beyond capacity; the NLL is simply crowded.

? - the BL is surely one of the emptiest Tube lines, and the 3tph on
the DC lines don't add all that much...

A brand new out of the packet 378 failing during warranty / mileage
accumulation / crews-ramping-up-routine-familiarisation would screw
the Bakerloo completely if it happened in the wrong place i.e. between
Queens and Stonebridge Parks say just before the pm peak and stranding
X number of Bakerloo sets in depot.

So there's a few hundred metres where it'd matter (ie 'stops Bakerloo
trains being brought out of depot to run the QP-Central London
service). Whereas a failure on the NLL (pretty much any of the NLL,
given the 3rd track is out of commission) would create havoc.

Bear in mind that 377/5s are
capably failing mosdt days every week of bringing TL core to a halt
for up to half an hour at a time for the most trivial issues, then
378s might be the same.

Cite? As someone who uses TL every day, that doesn't seem to be
anything even vaguely close to what's happening.

Thats why I think the Euston DC route is more important *- not to have
378s (I never implied that) but because it is a more important route
full stop.

Except for not being.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org