"Ian F." wrote in message
...
"Phil W Lee" phil(at)lee-family(dot)me(dot)uk wrote in message
news
I suspect the major difference between London bendy buses and their
european counterparts is the standard of driver training.

Our drivers here are trained? Are you sure?

Ian
Probably much more thoroughly than most cyclists are trained.

Ian.

"Ian" writes:

"Ian F." wrote in message
...
"Phil W Lee" phil(at)lee-family(dot)me(dot)uk wrote in message
news
I suspect the major difference between London bendy buses and their
european counterparts is the standard of driver training.

Our drivers here are trained? Are you sure?

Ian
Probably much more thoroughly than most cyclists are trained.

Cyclists are allowed to drive buses without training? That sounds like
a recipe for disaster


-dan

On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 08:29:54 +0100, "Ian" wrote:

I suggest you try riding a bike round some European city centres some
time. The bus routes in major European cities where bendy buses are
common typically run along broad boulevards which are straight or have
wide, sweeping bends. The narrow, twisty streets of London are one of
the main reasons the late lamented Routemaster was originally
developed.


Good idea..... you might meet up with some of these...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bi-articulated_bus
Two bendy bits per bus!!! Think yourself lucky in UK, with only one bendy
bit!

Seen those in Switzerland (Geneva and I think maybe also Zurich). The
trams are the ones to watch out for there, though. Or rather the tram
lines: it takes a little while to work out how to handle tram lines
and lanes the first time you encounter them.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 10:59:36 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

Note also that female cyclists are disproportionately involved in
these LGV crushing incidents. It's likely that this is because they
are less assertive on the road and more likely to ride too close to
the edge. There is a big difference between riding defensively and
riding timidly.

Without wishing to start a huge sexist debate, it's well known that
females have less well developed spatial awareness. (It's because the
males developed this in order to be successful hunters, which the
females don't generally have to do).

I think it's more down to the assertiveness of riding, and tendency to
hug the kerb, but I am only speculating.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 08:29:54 +0100
"Ian" wrote:
Good idea..... you might meet up with some of these...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bi-articulated_bus

Two bendy bits per bus!!! Think yourself lucky in UK, with only one bendy
bit!

As ever the europeans are light years ahead of us in public transport.

B2003

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 13:55:02 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

Of course, the greater length, articulation and the rear section's
self-steering system make it different, but those differences are

They don't self steer, they follow a curve. Simple geometry which even
cyclists could understand if they bothered to try. Also the cut in on
a bendy bus rear section going around a corner is a shed load less than
on an HGV.

Are you being rude and patronising just for effect? I used to park
36ft rigid trucks in a car storage yard, reversing down a lane with
less than 3ft either side and brand new unregistered Jaguars one side
and brand new unregistered Porsches the other. I am pretty good at
knowing the handling and manoeuvring characteristics of various
vehicles. You should watch some time the back end of a bendy bus when
the driver changes lanes: it swings in remarkably sharply, and because
the thing is so long your options for dealing with it are pretty much
limited to braking sharply. This is simply not the case for most
other vehicles. The usual method of controlling risk from overtaking
drivers, which is road position, simply doesn't work.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 17:52:00 +0100, Marc
wrote:

No it's not difficult at all!

Van drivers
Lorry drivers
Bus drivers
Taxi drivers
Private hire drivers
Postmen driving vans
Police drivers

I have witnessed all of the above show "scant regard for the highway
code, and complete contempt for other road users, especially pedestrians."

Frankly you can include all road users in there, even the pedestrians
themselves. I don't know of any group of road users which is
characterised by obedience to all the rules. And if you think London
cyclists are a rabble you should see Copenhagen some time!

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 08:22:48 +0100
"Ian" wrote:
(Similar considerations on seating apply to double deckers, with yet more
seats being lost for space for stairway. A double decker might only have
around 24 seats downstairs, but many more than that on the top deck; you may

Something that people forget is that the back of top deck of double deckers
is unusable during the times kids are travelling to school because the little
sods all congregate there and cause mayhem. For whatever psychological reason
they don't cause so much trouble on the lower deck or on single deckers
including bendy buses. Also the top deck is unusable for anyone infirm or
disabled and gets unpleasently hot anyway in the summer sun. Personally
I can't stand the things and its not hard to see why they're not that
common around the world in city transport systems.

B2003

In message op.uxtkitu9by8eno@sheepdog, at 09:00:19 on Wed, 29 Jul
2009, Colin McKenzie remarked:
Without wishing to start a huge sexist debate, it's well known that
females have less well developed spatial awareness. (It's because the
males developed this in order to be successful hunters, which the
females don't generally have to do).

But overall, female cyclists have fewer casualties than male. It's just
with HGVs that they seem to be more at risk.

Which seems to show that while they are more cautious generally, they
don't have the spatial awareness to implement that quite as effectively,
near HGVs.
--
Roland Perry

"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote in message
...

Frankly you can include all road users in there, even the pedestrians
themselves. I don't know of any group of road users which is
characterised by obedience to all the rules. And if you think London
cyclists are a rabble you should see Copenhagen some time!

Cyclists in Copenhagen are angels compared to the ones I have seen in
Beijing and Shanghai. However, they get beaten by cyclists in Caracas and
Fortaleza, not to mention Santiago.