On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 11:32:10 +0100
Paul Terry wrote:
No, there is no simple formula involved. The data is strongly encrypted
using three independent keys and the PIN can only be regenerated by a
specialist machine that decrypts both the original security number and
the offset used by the customer. It then outputs the PIN to a security
envelope. The only way for a member of the bank staff to see the PIN is
to open the envelope before it is posted, which is why customers are
always warned to check that the envelope has not been tampered with
before using their PIN.

I'm sure thats what they put in the sales brochure but reality in these
places its usually a little different. When I worked in the "priviledged"
customer dept in a well known bank a few years ago the supposedly secure
customer details were couriered arround the country on unencrypted floppy
disk and tape. Presumably someone thought that was more secure that
transfering over a dedicated T1 line. Or they were just insane, take your
pick.

B2003

Paul Corfield wrote

On 3 Sep 2009 09:15:57 GMT, Huge wrote:

Foyles? Superb? Have they stopped indexing the books by publisher,
got some
helpful assistants and refurbished the place, then?

Yes - you wouldn't recognise the place if the last time you saw it
was
in its former "chaotic" state.

I've been in within the last year and for the sections I checked
Blackwells and Borders were better and Waterstones about the same.

Taking a very specialised section, Borders in Kingston-on-Thames had
more American imports in SF than Foyles though of course Forbidden
Planet is better than either.

--
Mike D

wrote in :

On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 11:32:10 +0100
Paul Terry wrote:
No, there is no simple formula involved. The data is strongly
encrypted using three independent keys and the PIN can only be
regenerated by a specialist machine that decrypts both the original
security number and the offset used by the customer. It then outputs
the PIN to a security envelope. The only way for a member of the bank
staff to see the PIN is to open the envelope before it is posted,
which is why customers are always warned to check that the envelope
has not been tampered with before using their PIN.

I'm sure thats what they put in the sales brochure but reality in
these places its usually a little different. When I worked in the
"priviledged" customer dept in a well known bank a few years ago the
supposedly secure customer details were couriered arround the country
on unencrypted floppy disk and tape. Presumably someone thought that
was more secure that transfering over a dedicated T1 line. Or they
were just insane, take your pick.

B2003




Should be as safe as carting a CD of Social Security data around

"David A Stocks" wrote in message
...
"Zen83237" wrote in message
...

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...

On Sep 1, 9:54 pm, "Zen83237" wrote:
How come if I get a refund it can be added at Watford Junc but if I do
an
online top up it can't be added at Watford Junc or Euston main line.

Possibly might be the TOC, London Midland, protecting their ticket
office takings at WJ?

But Watford Junc is never the less a London Overground station, seems odd
that it isn't a station that you do an online top up at.


Isn't it that you can only do online top up at *Underground* stations?

I've never understood why anybody bothers with online top up. I tried it
once or twice and rapidly came to the conclusion it is the utterly useless
and inconvenient way to administer a PAYG balance that it is.

In a previous post on uk.railway under the subject "Oyster top up at Kings
Cross" I wrote:

"Online top-up is for those who are prepared to use a klunky web interface
to buy something that has to be collected at a nominated place within a
certain time window with the risk that if the oyster balance runs out in
the meantime they might not be able to get to the nominated collection
point to collect the purchase in the first place."
...

"The only benefit I can see is the avoidance of ticket office/machine
queues. With my frequent but irregular travel patterns I always found it
easier and just as inconvenient to stuff a card into a ticket machine when
I spotted one without a queue. Then I activated auto top-up."

D A Stocks

But they can add a refund at Watford Junc.

Kevin

"Zen83237" wrote in message
...

"David A Stocks" wrote in message
...
"Zen83237" wrote in message
...

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...

On Sep 1, 9:54 pm, "Zen83237" wrote:
How come if I get a refund it can be added at Watford Junc but if I do
an
online top up it can't be added at Watford Junc or Euston main line.

Possibly might be the TOC, London Midland, protecting their ticket
office takings at WJ?

But Watford Junc is never the less a London Overground station, seems
odd that it isn't a station that you do an online top up at.


Isn't it that you can only do online top up at *Underground* stations?

I've never understood why anybody bothers with online top up. I tried it
once or twice and rapidly came to the conclusion it is the utterly
useless and inconvenient way to administer a PAYG balance that it is.

In a previous post on uk.railway under the subject "Oyster top up at
Kings Cross" I wrote:

"Online top-up is for those who are prepared to use a klunky web
interface to buy something that has to be collected at a nominated place
within a certain time window with the risk that if the oyster balance
runs out in the meantime they might not be able to get to the nominated
collection point to collect the purchase in the first place."
...

"The only benefit I can see is the avoidance of ticket office/machine
queues. With my frequent but irregular travel patterns I always found it
easier and just as inconvenient to stuff a card into a ticket machine
when I spotted one without a queue. Then I activated auto top-up."

D A Stocks

But they can add a refund at Watford Junc.

Kevin
I assume this is yet another weirdness of online top up.

Somewhere near the start of this thread I asked for people who use online
top up and find it to be easier and more convenient than manual top up at
ticket machines to tell us why they found this to be the case.

Somebody posted a valid but rather spurious suggestion that using a ticket
machine means somebody might get to see your credit/debit card PIN. If I
were to post my PINs here on a newsgroup what would anyone be able to do
with them without the cards? I suggest people have a *lot* more to be
worried about in terms of security when entering into online transactions
over the web from a PC.

From there the thread went off into discussions about the progress Foyles
have made in book retailing over the last 30 years. Meanwhile, I'm still
waiting for the online top up user to pop up and tell me what I've been
missing out on over the years.

I suppose that's Usenet for you ...

D A Stocks

From there the thread went off into discussions about the progress
Foyles have made in book retailing over the last 30 years. Meanwhile,
I'm still waiting for the online top up user to pop up and tell me
what I've been missing out on over the years.


I'm not claiming it was a great contribution but was the reason I gave
for using online top-up at least once wholly irrelevant? For ease of
reference I have copied it below.


"My reason for using the online top-up facility was to gain online
access
to my journey history.

That seems still to be a requirement. From the Oyster site:

"You need to have an Oyster online account and have purchased pay as you
go online to view your journey history online. Once you are logged in,
select the Journey History option under the 'My card' tab."

That may of course simply change the question to why online top-up is
required. I'd guess as a security check (with DPA in mind) that the
person gaining access is the owner of the card. Not foolproof of course
but it seems to me a reasonable safeguard."

--
R

"neverwas" wrote in message
m...
From there the thread went off into discussions about the progress
Foyles have made in book retailing over the last 30 years. Meanwhile,
I'm still waiting for the online top up user to pop up and tell me
what I've been missing out on over the years.


I'm not claiming it was a great contribution but was the reason I gave for
using online top-up at least once wholly irrelevant? For ease of
reference I have copied it below.


"My reason for using the online top-up facility was to gain online access
to my journey history.


No, I accept that. For the odd one-off transaction the inconvenience is just
about acceptable; the last time I collected anything at a ticket gate was
when I set up auto top-up. What I'm particularly interested in is anyone who
prefers online over manual top ups for putting PAYG value on their Oyster on
a regular basis.

D A Stocks

On Sep 6, 10:53*am, "David A Stocks" wrote:

"Zen83237" wrote:

[big snip]

But they can add a refund at Watford Junc.

I assume this is yet another weirdness of online top up.

My reasoning is that Watford Junction is a London Midland managed
station, and online Oyster PAYG top-ups would bypass the LM retail
channel entirely - therefore they aren't offered at Watford Junction,
and pax wanting top-ups will need to go to the ticket office.


Somewhere near the start of this thread I asked for people who use online
top up and find it to be easier and more convenient than manual top up at
ticket machines to tell us why they found this to be the case.

Somebody posted a valid but rather spurious suggestion that using a ticket
machine means somebody might get to see your credit/debit card PIN. If I
were to post my PINs here on a newsgroup what would anyone be able to do
with them without the cards? I suggest people have a *lot* more to be
worried about in terms of security when entering into online transactions
over the web from a PC.

From there the thread went off into discussions about the progress Foyles
have made in book retailing over the last 30 years. Meanwhile, I'm still
waiting for the online top up user to pop up and tell me what I've been
missing out on over the years.

I suppose that's Usenet for you ...

There might not be a big online top-up user amongst the ranks of utl,
but just because you have no use for it doesn't mean it's useless,
unless the whole world is going to be subject to the David A Stocks
test of utility. But I suppose a belief in one's self-righteousness is
also part of Usenet too...

I'm quite sure that a decent number of people make use of it. Plus the
mechanism that delivers one-off topups is the same one that delivers
auto-topups, so there's no reason for TfL not to offer it.

On Sep 6, 1:28*pm, "David A Stocks" wrote:

"neverwas" wrote:

From there the thread went off into discussions about the progress
Foyles have made in book retailing over the last 30 years. Meanwhile,
I'm still waiting for the online top up user to pop up and tell me
what I've been missing out on over the years.

I'm not claiming it was a great contribution but was the reason I gave for
using online top-up at least once wholly irrelevant? *For ease of
reference I have copied it below.

"My reason for using the online top-up facility was to gain online access
to my journey history.

No, I accept that. For the odd one-off transaction the inconvenience is just
about acceptable; the last time I collected anything at a ticket gate was
when I set up auto top-up. What I'm particularly interested in is anyone who
prefers online over manual top ups for putting PAYG value on their Oyster on
a regular basis.

There's a difference between asking that question, which is totally
fair enough, and simply branding it "utterly useless and inconvenient"
- the latter comment hardly sounds like you have an open mind on the
matter.

"David A Stocks" wrote in message

"neverwas" wrote in message
m...
From there the thread went off into discussions about the progress
Foyles have made in book retailing over the last 30 years.
Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for the online top up user to pop up
and tell me what I've been missing out on over the years.


I'm not claiming it was a great contribution but was the reason I
gave for using online top-up at least once wholly irrelevant? For
ease of reference I have copied it below.


"My reason for using the online top-up facility was to gain online
access to my journey history.


No, I accept that. For the odd one-off transaction the inconvenience
is just about acceptable; the last time I collected anything at a
ticket gate was when I set up auto top-up. What I'm particularly
interested in is anyone who prefers online over manual top ups for
putting PAYG value on their Oyster on a regular basis.

As I said previously, when I use on-line top-up, I use Amex, which I
thought was not accepted at ticket machines. I may be out of date on
that point, but hadn't bothered checking. I also like the emailed
receipt you get with an on-line top-up without having to ask for one.