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level crosings on the LUL
A recent thread on a related newsgroup talked about the
Croxley Green branch which has been "cut" by what is commonly referred to as the "Watford bypass" but which I believe is just an access road to an industrial estate If so then a level crossing should easily cope with the rail and road traffic. The thread went on to mention the proposal for LUL to take over this branch to run the Met into Watford High Street/Junction. This got me thinking, are there any level crossings on the London Underground (surface lines, obviously). National Rail also have barrow crossings and pedestrian footpath (and at least one shared footpath/cyclepath) crossings at rail level but is there anything similar on the L.U. (including shared Nat. Rail sections)? -- IanB n.b. Please respond via n.g. (I subscribe to two large newsgroups so I may be running a few days behind on reading threads). You may need to zzremove snooze mode or switch my names about (nodot nospace (nodot nospace) to reply direct |
level crosings on the LUL
In message , IanB
k writes A recent thread on a related newsgroup talked about the Croxley Green branch which has been "cut" by what is commonly referred to as the "Watford bypass" but which I believe is just an access road to an industrial estate If so then a level crossing should easily cope with the rail and road traffic. The thread went on to mention the proposal for LUL to take over this branch to run the Met into Watford High Street/Junction. This got me thinking, are there any level crossings on the London Underground (surface lines, obviously). National Rail also have barrow crossings and pedestrian footpath (and at least one shared footpath/cyclepath) crossings at rail level but is there anything similar on the L.U. (including shared Nat. Rail sections)? Quail shows a level crossing inside Neasden depot, but I don't think there are any 'proper crossings' on the main running lines, though googling shows that there was at least one pedestrian crossing, at North Weald station on the (now closed) Ongar branch. -- Spyke Address is valid, but messages are treated as junk. The opinions I express do not necessarily reflect those of the educational institution from which I post. |
level crosings on the LUL
"IanB" k wrote in message
... A recent thread on a related newsgroup talked about the Croxley Green branch which has been "cut" by what is commonly referred to as the "Watford bypass" but which I believe is just an access road to an industrial estate If so then a level crossing should easily cope with the rail and road traffic. The thread went on to mention the proposal for LUL to take over this branch to run the Met into Watford High Street/Junction. This got me thinking, are there any level crossings on the London Underground (surface lines, obviously). National Rail also have barrow crossings and pedestrian footpath (and at least one shared footpath/cyclepath) crossings at rail level but is there anything similar on the L.U. (including shared Nat. Rail sections)? -- IanB What about the pedestrian footpath that crosses the line just beyond Amersham? Although no LU trains run up there, the line is managed by LU, so I suppose it counts? Daniel. |
level crosings on the LUL
"Heliomass" wrote in message
... "IanB" k wrote in message ... A recent thread on a related newsgroup talked about the Croxley Green branch which has been "cut" by what is commonly referred to as the "Watford bypass" but which I believe is just an access road to an industrial estate If so then a level crossing should easily cope with the rail and road traffic. The thread went on to mention the proposal for LUL to take over this branch to run the Met into Watford High Street/Junction. This got me thinking, are there any level crossings on the London Underground (surface lines, obviously). National Rail also have barrow crossings and pedestrian footpath (and at least one shared footpath/cyclepath) crossings at rail level but is there anything similar on the L.U. (including shared Nat. Rail sections)? -- IanB What about the pedestrian footpath that crosses the line just beyond Amersham? Although no LU trains run up there, the line is managed by LU, so I suppose it counts? There used to be a level crossing on the Central Line somewhere on the eastern section around Leyton. But it was closed to road traffic (the road was turned into two cul-de-sacs [1]) many decades ago. I can't remember the details now. [1] culs-de-sac? |
level crosings on the LUL
Here's a poser for the real aficianodos on this group: where in London is the
closest level crossing (surface rail or Underground line) to Charing Cross (the traditional place from which Central London distances are measured)? I know the answer, but it may surprise some of you. If the correct answer doesn't appear by this time tomorrow, I will post it myself. Sorry no prizes for the correct answer.... Marc. |
level crosings on the LUL
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level crosings on the LUL
"Mait001" wrote in message
... Here's a poser for the real aficianodos on this group: where in London is the closest level crossing (surface rail or Underground line) to Charing Cross (the traditional place from which Central London distances are measured)? I know the answer, but it may surprise some of you. If the correct answer doesn't appear by this time tomorrow, I will post it myself. Sorry no prizes for the correct answer.... Hmm! Well the Charing Cross - Waterloo East - London Bridge line is on viaducts for some considerable distance beyond London Bridge, isn't it. And so's the main line out of Waterloo as far as Clapham Junction at least, as is the line out of Victoria as far as Clapham Junction. I wonder if any of the maze of lines around Battersea, north east of Clapham Junction, especially those below the Victoria and Waterloo lines, cross a minor road on the level? Could there be any access roads to the sheds between the two halves of Clapham Junction that cross either of the lines? Obviously there are the two crossings at Barnes on the Windsor (Reading) lines, but I bet there are crossings much closer than that. What about the Thameslink line? Underground from north of St Pancras to Blackfriars and then above the Embankment roads to south of the river. Not sure what it does then, but I don't recall any level crossings. Are we including non-passenger sidings (eg those around Stewart's Lane depot)? That's well below the lines from Victoria, so there could be scope for a level crossing there. What about London Underground lines? Surely none of them could have subterranean level crossings on them. The Circle line is the only one round there that is close to ground level (it's underground but only just, whereas the rest of the lines are deep). Are we definitely talking about a public road rather than a private access road on railway land? |
level crosings on the LUL
Mait001 wrote:
Here's a poser for the real aficianodos on this group: where in London is the closest level crossing (surface rail or Underground line) to Charing Cross (the traditional place from which Central London distances are measured)? I know the answer, but it may surprise some of you. If the correct answer doesn't appear by this time tomorrow, I will post it myself. Sorry no prizes for the correct answer.... I can't think of one nearer than Barnes, specifically where Vine Road crosses the Hounslow loop west of Barnes station. That's 9.6 km (6 miles) from Charing Cross. But I have a feeling this is a trick question :-) -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
level crosings on the LUL
Sorry, Rob - have another go!
Marc. |
level crosings on the LUL
Are we including non-passenger sidings (eg those around Stewart's Lane
depot)? That's well below the lines from Victoria, so there could be scope for a level crossing there. No, I'm asking about a line that has regular passenger services. What about London Underground lines? Surely none of them could have subterranean level crossings on them. No, the one I'm thinking of is open to the Gods. Are we definitely talking about a public road rather than a private access road on railway land? I define "level crossing" as a place where traffic has to stop to allow trains to pass, complete with barriers, flashing lights etc. Marc. |
level crosings on the LUL
I can't think of one nearer than Barnes, specifically where Vine Road
crosses the Hounslow loop west of Barnes station. That's 9.6 km (6 miles) from Charing Cross. But I have a feeling this is a trick question :-) -- Richard J. I don't think it is a trick question, Richard, but it is definitely nearer than Barnes. In fact, it's within the Zone 2 Travelcard area. Marc. |
level crosings on the LUL
"Mait001" wrote in message
... I can't think of one nearer than Barnes, specifically where Vine Road crosses the Hounslow loop west of Barnes station. That's 9.6 km (6 miles) from Charing Cross. But I have a feeling this is a trick question :-) -- Richard J. I don't think it is a trick question, Richard, but it is definitely nearer than Barnes. In fact, it's within the Zone 2 Travelcard area. Is it one of level crossings by the West London Line at Willesden? I vaguely remember there's one on the West London line itself just after it leaves the WCML, and another in the Eurostar depot at North Pole. However, as to whether these are nearer than Barnes and actually inside zone 2 I don't know. I'm probably imagining their presence anyway. Angus |
level crosings on the LUL
"Mait001" wrote in message ... I can't think of one nearer than Barnes, specifically where Vine Road crosses the Hounslow loop west of Barnes station. That's 9.6 km (6 miles) from Charing Cross. But I have a feeling this is a trick question :-) -- Richard J. I don't think it is a trick question, Richard, but it is definitely nearer than Barnes. In fact, it's within the Zone 2 Travelcard area. There is a level crossing just north of Acton Central on the NLL which is in zone 2 although I am not sure if it is any closer than Barnes. Peter Smyth |
level crosings on the LUL
In article , Mait001
writes I don't think it is a trick question, Richard, but it is definitely nearer than Barnes. In fact, it's within the Zone 2 Travelcard area. Mitre Bridge, crossed by the Rugby/Watford to South Coast trains? -- Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself | Home: Tel: +44 20 8371 1138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address |
level crosings on the LUL
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level crosings on the LUL
"Peter Smyth" wrote in message
... "Mait001" wrote in message ... I can't think of one nearer than Barnes, specifically where Vine Road crosses the Hounslow loop west of Barnes station. That's 9.6 km (6 miles) from Charing Cross. But I have a feeling this is a trick question :-) -- Richard J. I don't think it is a trick question, Richard, but it is definitely nearer than Barnes. In fact, it's within the Zone 2 Travelcard area. There is a level crossing just north of Acton Central on the NLL which is in zone 2 although I am not sure if it is any closer than Barnes. There's another two just south of South Acton, one on the NLL, one on the freight curve that connects the NLL to the Hounslow loop line. For road users both these crossings are on Bollo Lane. However, Barnes is closer to CX than Acton. Robin |
level crosings on the LUL
"Jim Brittin" wrote in message m... In article m, says... There used to be a level crossing on the Central Line somewhere on the eastern section around Leyton. But it was closed to road traffic (the road was turned into two cul-de-sacs [1]) many decades ago. I can't remember the details now. [1] culs-de-sac? Are you thinking of Eagle Lane, Snaresbrook? Well there used to be a level crossing at South Woodford Station, (Then known as George Lane) which was there when the steam trains ran here. The crossing was removed when the Central Line arrived after the war and this action cut George Lane into two. There may have also been a level crossing between South Woodford and Woodford at the place where Churchfields becomes a dead end and Gordon Road begins from a dead end on the other side of the railway. There is also an old "railway type looking" house right next to the railway at that location. Another level crossing was in place at Woodford Station and it suffered the same fate as the one in George Lane again when the electrified rails arrived here after the war. There are pictures available in books about the local area, and an exhibition was displayed in South Woodford library a few years back. |
level crosings on the LUL
"Angus Bryant" wrote in message ...
Is it one of level crossings by the West London Line at Willesden? I vaguely remember there's one on the West London line itself just after it leaves the WCML, and another in the Eurostar depot at North Pole. However, as to whether these are nearer than Barnes and actually inside zone 2 I don't know. I'm probably imagining their presence anyway. I reckon the answer is "Mitre Bridge", just south of Willesden. The passenger service would be the one from Kensington Olympia to the Great Western Main Line at Acton (or vice versa). PhilD -- |
level crosings on the LUL
"IanB" k wrote in message ...
This got me thinking, are there any level crossings on the London Underground (surface lines, obviously). National Rail also have barrow crossings and pedestrian footpath (and at least one shared footpath/cyclepath) crossings at rail level but is there anything similar on the L.U. (including shared Nat. Rail sections)? There was one on the Ongar branch, at North Weald station. The road was only a farm track but the manually opperated gates were interlocked with the semaphore signalling for the passing loop. Because of this crossing I have heard it was still necessary to man the North Weald signal-box for quite some time after the passing loop was taken out of use (from memory, autumn 1976) - for some reason the signalling could not immediately be switched out or decommissioned. Other level crossings on the Loughton/Epping branch were replaced with flyovers or underpasses, presumably in the 1950s. |
level crosings on the LUL
Is it one of level crossings by the West London Line at Willesden? I vaguely remember there's one on the West London line itself just after it leaves the WCML, and another in the Eurostar depot at North Pole. However, as to whether these are nearer than Barnes and actually inside zone 2 I don't know. I'm probably imagining their presence anyway. Angus Well remembered, Angus - that's the exact one I had in mind: I only "discovered" it myself recently when en route from Clapham Junction to Watford on the W.L.L. This is within the Zone 2 bondary as far as I can make out, since both Olympia and Willesden, the stations either side, are. Marc. |
level crosings on the LUL
I reckon the answer is "Mitre Bridge", just south of Willesden. The
passenger service would be the one from Kensington Olympia to the Great Western Main Line at Acton (or vice versa). PhilD PhilD, yes you are right! Marc. |
level crosings on the LUL
Mitre Bridge, crossed by the Rugby/Watford to South Coast trains?
-- Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself Yes, Clive, you're right too! Marc. |
level crosings on the LUL
"umpston" wrote in message
om... There was one on the Ongar branch, at North Weald station. There is another foot crossing east of Blake Hall station. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
level crosings on the LUL
"Robin Cox" writes:
There is a level crossing just north of Acton Central on the NLL which is in zone 2 although I am not sure if it is any closer than Barnes. There's another two just south of South Acton, one on the NLL, one on the freight curve that connects the NLL to the Hounslow loop line. For road users both these crossings are on Bollo Lane. However, Barnes is closer to CX than Acton. It's certainly closer than South Acton, but I think it's further than Acton Central, which is due west of Charing Cross. If you're used to the straight Thames of the tube map, you might have expected the opposite (which is what I thought the "trick" was, but apparently not). |
level crosings on the LUL
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level crosings on the LUL
Is it a public road? There's no level crossing marked there in my A-Z
nor on multimap.com. I have passed over the crossing 4 times by train within the last month or so, and each time there was a queue of traffic of all sorts on each side of the railway line. It gives access to the Mayer Parry scrap yard from Scrubs Lane and there is nothing as you leave Scrubs Lane to say it is a private road. So, I assume it is a public road, if only for the limited destination to which it leads. Marc. |
level crosings on the LUL
Mait001 wrote:
Is it one of level crossings by the West London Line at Willesden? I vaguely remember there's one on the West London line itself just after it leaves the WCML, and another in the Eurostar depot at North Pole. However, as to whether these are nearer than Barnes and actually inside zone 2 I don't know. I'm probably imagining their presence anyway. Angus Well remembered, Angus - that's the exact one I had in mind: I only "discovered" it myself recently when en route from Clapham Junction to Watford on the W.L.L. This is within the Zone 2 bondary as far as I can make out, since both Olympia and Willesden, the stations either side, are. Willesden Junction station is in Zone 3 actually, though I agree the crossing is within Zone 2, and it's nearly a mile nearer to Charing Cross than the ones at Barnes. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
level crosings on the LUL
Willesden Junction station is in Zone 3 actually, though I agree the
crossing is within Zone 2, and it's nearly a mile nearer to Charing Cross than the ones at Barnes. -- Richard J. Sorry, I have mis-read my pocket Underground map: I thought Willesden Junction was on the border of Zones 2 and 3 but, on closer inspection, I see that it is just inside the Zone 3 area! I confess here and now that I have more than once travelled from Clapham to Willesden on a Zone 1 & 2 Travelcard, albeit without leaving the station! Marc. |
level crosings on the LUL
Mait001 wrote:
Willesden Junction station is in Zone 3 actually, though I agree the crossing is within Zone 2, and it's nearly a mile nearer to Charing Cross than the ones at Barnes. -- Richard J. Sorry, I have mis-read my pocket Underground map: I thought Willesden Junction was on the border of Zones 2 and 3 but, on closer inspection, I see that it is just inside the Zone 3 area! I confess here and now that I have more than once travelled from Clapham to Willesden on a Zone 1 & 2 Travelcard, albeit without leaving the station! Ah, so you really are a criminal barrister! :-) -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
level crosings on the LUL
I confess
here and now that I have more than once travelled from Clapham to Willesden on a Zone 1 & 2 Travelcard, albeit without leaving the station! Ah, so you really are a criminal barrister! :-) -- Richard J. I rather seem to have walked into that! But at least it wasn't me who was overheard on a train the other day saying, quite noncahlantly, "I've got to do a bit of child abuse at Southwark next week...." And, I actually heard a pretty female colleague once saying "I've always got sex at the Bailey..." Marc. |
level crosings on the LUL
"Mait001" wrote in message
... And, I actually heard a pretty female colleague once saying "I've always got sex at the Bailey..." Are you sure it wasn't "I've always got sex after Bailey's..." -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
level crosings on the LUL
"IanB" k wrote in message ...
A recent thread on a related newsgroup talked about the Croxley Green branch which has been "cut" by what is commonly referred to as the "Watford bypass" but which I believe is just an access road to an industrial estate If so then a level crossing should easily cope with the rail and road traffic. The thread went on to mention the I can just imagine the nannies in the HSE having to reach for the smelling salts if someone proposed a new level crossing on a commuter line! It won't happen. I suspect if the met is extended onto this branch the road will be put into an underpass. B2003 |
level crosings on the LUL
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 04:57:56 GMT, Helen Deborah Vecht
wrote: I think Willesden Junction was 'reclassified' as Zone 3 a few years ago to local protest. I was impressed by the fact that you could travel all the way from Kensal Rise to Hackney Wick in Zone 2 -- if it wasn't for Hampstead Heath poking into Zone 3. Regards, Clive -- The fastest AS/400 programmer in the west! | Note -- spamtrap in use. | Use the Reply-to address. For details of a West London National Trust property, | visit http://www.osterleypark.org.uk/ | What -- me worry? |
level crosings on the LUL
Clive R Robertson typed
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 04:57:56 GMT, Helen Deborah Vecht wrote: I think Willesden Junction was 'reclassified' as Zone 3 a few years ago to local protest. I was impressed by the fact that you could travel all the way from Kensal Rise to Hackney Wick in Zone 2 -- if it wasn't for Hampstead Heath poking into Zone 3. This is a fiction, designed to prevent the North London Line being all one zone. Hampstead Heath Station is in Zone 2 on the buses, isn't it? The zone 2/3 border is at Hampstead LUL station and HH is nearer to the centre than that. -- Helen D. Vecht: Edgware. |
level crosings on the LUL
"Boltar" wrote in message om... I can just imagine the nannies in the HSE having to reach for the smelling salts if someone proposed a new level crossing on a commuter line! It won't happen. I suspect if the met is extended onto this branch the road will be put into an underpass. B2003 Will that be the same HSE that allows level crossings all over the Tyne Wear Metro then? Paul Scott |
level crosings on the LUL
"Boltar" wrote in message
om... I suspect if the met is extended onto this branch the road will be put into an underpass. The ex-railway is on an embankment at Ascot Road, and Ascot Road is (AFAIK) low enough that it won't have to be lowered. The road was built at a time when the Croxley Link was already on the cards. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
level crosings on the LUL
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:16:45 GMT, Helen Deborah Vecht
wrote: Clive R Robertson typed On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 04:57:56 GMT, Helen Deborah Vecht wrote: I think Willesden Junction was 'reclassified' as Zone 3 a few years ago to local protest. I was impressed by the fact that you could travel all the way from Kensal Rise to Hackney Wick in Zone 2 -- if it wasn't for Hampstead Heath poking into Zone 3. This is a fiction, designed to prevent the North London Line being all one zone. Hampstead Heath Station is in Zone 2 on the buses, isn't it? The zone 2/3 border is at Hampstead LUL station and HH is nearer to the centre than that. I refer the honourable lady to http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/pdfdocs/lon_con.pdf (or .../lon_con.jpg). Note how the border dips to get Hampstead Heath into Zone 3. The bus zone boundary does indeed put HH into Zone 2, but bus zones are different from LU / NR zones. (The bus zones map for northwest London is at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/pdfdocs/n_west.pdf -- Caution: this is almost 5MB.) I don't know what you mean by "fiction" or, for that matter, "all". A fair chunk of the NLL is in Zone 3 -- everything east of Hackney Wick (i.e., from Stratford to North Woolwich, Hampstead Heath and the aforementioned Willesden Junction, and South Acton to Kew Gardens. Acton Central is in 2, Kew Gardens is 3/4, and Richmond is in 4. Regards, Clive -- The fastest AS/400 programmer in the west! | Note -- spamtrap in use. | Use the Reply-to address. For details of a West London National Trust property, | visit http://www.osterleypark.org.uk/ | What -- me worry? |
level crosings on the LUL
"Paul Scott" wrote in message ...
"Boltar" wrote in message om... I can just imagine the nannies in the HSE having to reach for the smelling salts if someone proposed a new level crossing on a commuter line! It won't happen. I suspect if the met is extended onto this branch the road will be put into an underpass. B2003 Will that be the same HSE that allows level crossings all over the Tyne Wear Metro then? Those have I suspect been there since the line was originally built back in the days when the HSE had some common sense. However I stand to be corrected and told that they're on the new extension to the airport. Also don't forget that the metro is overhead catenary , the tube is 4th rail. B2003 |
level crosings on the LUL
"Boltar" wrote in message om... Those have I suspect been there since the line was originally built back in the days when the HSE had some common sense. However I stand to be corrected and told that they're on the new extension to the airport. Also don't forget that the metro is overhead catenary , the tube is 4th rail. B2003 Yes it is mostly the airport extension, and all the stations seem to be split with the platforms on either side of the level crossing. I stand to be corrected but don't think there are any LC that are not at stations, and therefore the train is always stationary with the driver able to sight the LC before he sets off again. Of course the metro to the airport mainly runs on an old BR line, which predates the urban sprawl. I doubt there were so many LC then. A lot of the crossing points are over residential distributor type roads. Surely on LU the 4th rail would be dealt with in the same way as 3rd rail on SR lines, it would just need a break (cable connected) in the conductor at a LC? Paul |
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