Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

"Ian F." wrote in message
...
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...

Did you have a bad experience, or are you just reacting to the chattering
campaign about them?

I've had a couple of bad experiences - herded around like cattle, talked
at by snotty-nosed ground staff like I was a piece of ****, shown no
respect whatsoever...

I'm a reasonably frequent flyer and I'm too old and dyed-in-the-wool to
worry about saving a few pennies to be treated like that. I'd far rather
spend the extra and be shown some degree of care. And this is not just
me - I know dozens of friends and colleagues that feel the same way.

I have always found easyJet to be far superior in every way to Ryanair,
although, understandably, not on a level with the major airlines. I would
travel with them like a shot, but I will never, ever, ever travel Ryanair.

That said, I know millions of people are happy being treated like **** in
order to save a couple of quid - that is their prerogative and I'm glad
that Ryanair is there to provide them with what they require.

Ian


I've flown Ryanair numerous times and they've never treated me like ****.
Their staff are pleasant and courteous.

By the way, my worst flying experience is being stuck in Hong Kong for 36
hours a couple of years ago due to technical problems with a Qantas flight.
Yes, they provided a hotel room and meal vouchers, but their communication
(or rather the lack of it) was pathetic.

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

In message .com, at
23:27:56 on Wed, 14 Oct 2009, MC remarked:

A colleague flying Business Class on United got bumped Saturday (flight
cancelled) and had to wait 24hrs for the next flight.

But, for the premium paid to travel first class

Business class.

and for the fact that it was not his fault, did the airline look after
him?

A free hotel room for 24hrs, and half the weekend trashed. (It was a her,
incidentally).

If operating within the EU, compensation is also payable.

In your colleague's case, the minimum they should have expected would have
been a seat on the next flight home, hotel accommodation as necessary

They got those.

and compensation set down by EU regulations. These are the minimum
every passenger should expect when the flight originates in the EU.

But the flight didn't involve the EU.

Why was she bumped. If it was due to overbooking, the way airline bump will
depend on the the type of ticket (flexible or budget), frequent flyer
membership, class of travel etc. I am surprised that you colleague was not
offered a seat in economy and some compensation. They would then bump an
economy passenger to make room.

"Bumping" perhaps not quite the right word. The entire flight was
cancelled (I did say that above), but I don't know the reason.

There seems to be no
incentive to volunteer being bumped on a budget airline though.

Most budget airlines claim they don't overbook, and I've never seen it
happen, even when flights are completely full. KLM-UK on the other hand,
was always bumping people when it was busy coming back from AMS to the
UK; and a different colleague got bumped out of Business Class *both*
ways on a long haul to South America (Iberia I think) a couple of years
ago. Was offered a choice of an economy seat instead, or a flight the
next day. Chose the first option on the way out, the second coming back.
--
Roland Perry

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
Roland Perry gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

If anything the Berlin Metro train to get to the airport, plus the long
walk to the actual airport from the station [1], was the worst aspect
of the trip.

[1] Presumably that's Ryanair's fault too!!

Considering Ryanair use Schonefeld, rather than Tegel like the "proper"
airlines - yes, it is...

On the bright side you get an interesting train journey into Berlin. When I
went in 2007 the U-Bahn was not in use so I took and enjoyed my first ever
double-deck train. Admittedly I spent most of the way hoping the train was
going to Berlin and not out to Poland or Switzerland!

Geschlater?: a term I learned at OstbahnHof on the way home....

Schonefeld is a very modern terminal and quite simplistic in layout. Easier
to get there than most London airports.

Nick

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

wrote in message
...
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 18:40:32 on
Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Paul Corfield remarked:
I would rather have needles stuck in my eyes than fly Ryanair.

Did you have a bad experience, or are you just reacting to the
chattering campaign about them?

Am I allowed to say I have never travelled with them and never will?

So 100% prejudice. Glad we got that out in the open.

This is based on what you'd probably call an irrational dislike of their
business model and of dear old Mr O'Leary. He's a clever bloke but I
don't like his business methods or attitudes whereby Ryanair are always
right and everyone else can go hang.

If I want to experience bus travel then I'll use a bus thanks very much!

Or quite a lot of trains. Indeed, Ryanair's planes are mainly pretty new,
and not bad to travel on at all.

No reclining seats, no pouch in the back of the previous seats,
instructions printed onto the back of each seat, surly staff, and possibly
standing room only in the future.

I'm just wondering how this doesn't differ from the Tube.

Do you need a reclining seat for a flight that takes less than 3 hours? Be
honest, the prices are low because they don't spend on luxuries like this.
I've got long legs and had plenty of legroom the last 4 times I flew
Ryanair. Staff were perfectly OK too.
Biggest issue I have with Ryanair is the credit card fees, I don't believe
it costs £5 per transaction and they don't need to treat each flight as a
separate purchase when you only pay once.

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

In message , at 07:37:54 on Thu, 15
Oct 2009, Nick P remarked:
Biggest issue I have with Ryanair is the credit card fees, I don't believe
it costs £5 per transaction and they don't need to treat each flight as a
separate purchase when you only pay once.

That's because it's not really a "Credit card fee" any more than the
"Tax and charges" add-on you get with a conventional airline necessarily
reflects specific taxes or airport charges (it often also has a "fuel
surcharge", something the budget airlines have avoided so far).
--
Roland Perry

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

"rail" wrote in message

In message
" wrote:

[snip]
There was a service a few years ago, that was running trains out of
Waterloo to Southampton for about £1. The problem, however, was that
passengers who paid that fare were confined to one car on the train.
I'm under the impression that it was not the most pleasant journey.

Still exists though I've never actually seen a £1 fare available.
It's not a seperate train but Megatrain have bought batches of
tickets on SWT services. So the journey is the same as travelling on
an ordinary SWT ticket, these days they don't even have a dedicated
(part of) coach.

Megatrain isn't a separate company -- like SWT, it's owned by
Stagecoach.

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

wrote in message

Recliner wrote:
"Roland Perry" wrote in message

In message , at 21:19:24
on Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Paul Corfield remarked:

I don't feel I have lost out by not travelling by Ryanair. I would
hope Mr O'Leary's planes are pretty new given the huge rate of
expansion that he has managed with his airline
I'm sure it's part of his business plan to buy new planes to give
easy and consistent maintenance and operations. As opposed to
BMIbaby who have a rag-bag collection of surprisingly old planes.

Yes, Ryanair buys huge batches of identical planes from Boeing (but
always with the threat of defecting to Airbus, as easyJet did), for
knock-down prices. O'Leary proudly shows off about ordering them
during recessions, when he can get the best deal. They are then kept
for a relatively short time, before being sold on, with little or no
depreciation (as Ryanair buys them for less than the second-hand
price).
IIRC , the Panorama report stated that he was practically ready to do
a deal with Airbus, then backed out at the last minute. I think that
one of the Airbus executives also said that Ryanair were trying to
secure planes at unacceptably low prices.

No, just hard bargaining. Ryanair is a willing buyer, and both Airbus
and Boeing are willing sellers. The price that is struck is presumably
acceptable to both, or no deal would be done. It's in Airbus's interest
to lose the deal to Boeing if the competition results in Boeing getting
a lower price than it might otherwise have done.

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

wrote in message

Buddenbrooks wrote:

wrote in message
...

Same here. I also find getting to Heathrow a lot easier than
Stansted or Luton, for example.


Unfortunately the time from touchdown to hire car is longer than the
flight from schipol when you go via Heathrow.

You will have to get used to it, the trend from the 60s onwards is
for air travel to become functional and the term 'jet set' is
probably meaningless to the majority, certainly not
bringing to mind upper class exclusive travel.

Give it a few years and Business Class air travel will be the same
concept as the business class section of the underground trains.



I've heard that this is already happening, unfortunately.

No, the opposite is true.

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

In message , at 08:57:20 on
Thu, 15 Oct 2009, Recliner remarked:
It's not a seperate train but Megatrain have bought batches of
tickets on SWT services. So the journey is the same as travelling on
an ordinary SWT ticket, these days they don't even have a dedicated
(part of) coach.

Megatrain isn't a separate company -- like SWT, it's owned by
Stagecoach.

Despite the common ownership, it's still a separate company. Also,
Meagtrain is now available on East Midlands Trains (since they are
operated by Stagecoach too).
--
Roland Perry

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

In message
"Recliner" wrote:

"rail" wrote in message

In message
" wrote:

[snip]
There was a service a few years ago, that was running trains out of
Waterloo to Southampton for about £1. The problem, however, was that
passengers who paid that fare were confined to one car on the train.
I'm under the impression that it was not the most pleasant journey.

Still exists though I've never actually seen a £1 fare available.
It's not a seperate train but Megatrain have bought batches of
tickets on SWT services. So the journey is the same as travelling on
an ordinary SWT ticket, these days they don't even have a dedicated
(part of) coach.

Megatrain isn't a separate company -- like SWT, it's owned by
Stagecoach.



As far as ATOC (and the taxman) is concerned, it is a seperate company.
Presumably Megatrain could do similar deals with non Stagecoach-owned
companies if the latter were willing.

--
Graeme Wall

This address not read, substitute trains for rail
Transport Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 11:38:44 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

Ah, that's a common one of the "chattering criticisms". But does it
actually happen any more? The closest is probably "You need to catch the
next available flight, which is tomorrow" (or possibly later, but that's
just a timetable thing)

And an air travel thing in general. Except in very extreme cases, the
next available train is the *next* train, as there is more flexibility
as standing is allowed.

As well as that, if you get stuck because of a cancelled last train, a
taxi is usually provided. This is practical for a typically short-ish
railway journey, but not for a typically far longer air one.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 23:27:56 +0100, "MC" wrote:

There seems to be no
incentive to volunteer being bumped on a budget airline though.

Budget airlines don't overbook to the same extent, because you don't
have the issue of fully-flexible tickets where you might not know a
particular passenger has decided to take the next flight until they
don't turn up.

Indeed, I only ever heard of anyone being bumped on EZY once, and it
was due to a faulty seat on a completely full flight. In that case,
speedy boarding or an A-group boarding card was the way to avoid it,
apparently.

In the case of KLM, the way to avoid it (e.g. on the Friday 3pm-ish
flight to Brum which was *always* overbooked) always used to be online
checkin. Never got bumped once, though I did volunteer on one
occasion (but got on the flight as there were too many volunteers on
that occasion). I recall a member of check-in staff pretty much
confirming this on one occasion.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 20:30:26 +0100, "
wrote:

There was a service a few years ago, that was running trains out of
Waterloo to Southampton for about £1. The problem, however, was that
passengers who paid that fare were confined to one car on the train. I'm
under the impression that it was not the most pleasant journey.

The problem wasn't that they were confined to that coach, but that
other passengers weren't prevented from using it. So if it was full,
tough.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 20:46:36 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

Why's that? Many advance purchase train tickets today are issued with
compulsory reservations. What's the unpleasantness if they turn out to
be all in one carriage?

Megatrain don't do seat reservations.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 09:27:47 +0100, rail
wrote:

As far as ATOC (and the taxman) is concerned, it is a seperate company.
Presumably Megatrain could do similar deals with non Stagecoach-owned
companies if the latter were willing.

It was (may still be) offered on VT at one point, which of course is
only 49% Stagecoach.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 11:41:16 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

They've owned it (80% rather than just 30%) for a year now, so FSVO
"early". But there are rumours it might be sold to FlyBE.

Oh, dear. Another OKish airline sold to a dire one.

easyJet not interested?

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 20:12:58 +0100, "
wrote:

That's not to say that I would fly any budget airline, however.

Have you ever done? You might well find that it's not half as bad as
you think.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

On 15 Oct, 19:11, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 23:27:56 +0100, "MC" wrote:
There seems to be no
incentive to volunteer being bumped on a budget airline though.

Budget airlines don't overbook to the same extent, because you don't
have the issue of fully-flexible tickets where you might not know a
particular passenger has decided to take the next flight until they
don't turn up.

They don't need to bump you. They'll just claim that your passport is
bent or contrive to delay you in a way that they'll claim is your
fault, and you'll miss the flight without compensation plus pay the
full fare for the next one.

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

In message
, at
11:18:57 on Thu, 15 Oct 2009, MIG
remarked:
There seems to be no
incentive to volunteer being bumped on a budget airline though.

Budget airlines don't overbook to the same extent, because you don't
have the issue of fully-flexible tickets where you might not know a
particular passenger has decided to take the next flight until they
don't turn up.

They don't need to bump you. They'll just claim that your passport is
bent or contrive to delay you in a way that they'll claim is your
fault, and you'll miss the flight without compensation plus pay the
full fare for the next one.

Chatter, chatter.

Anyone ever seen that happen?
--
Roland Perry

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

In message , at 18:13:44 on Thu,
15 Oct 2009, Neil Williams remarked:
Why's that? Many advance purchase train tickets today are issued with
compulsory reservations. What's the unpleasantness if they turn out to
be all in one carriage?

Megatrain don't do seat reservations.

They used to do "carriage reservations" though.

--
Roland Perry

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 19:29:15 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

Anyone ever seen that happen?

Nope. And I use easyJet a lot.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 19:31:29 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

Megatrain don't do seat reservations.

They used to do "carriage reservations" though.

No - the carriage wasn't reserved. Megatrain passengers had to sit
there, but nothing said that other passengers couldn't.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

In message , at 19:00:57 on Thu,
15 Oct 2009, Neil Williams remarked:
Megatrain don't do seat reservations.

They used to do "carriage reservations" though.

No - the carriage wasn't reserved. Megatrain passengers had to sit
there,

Amounts to the same thing.

but nothing said that other passengers couldn't.

That's an implementation bug.
--
Roland Perry

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

On 15 Oct, 19:29, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
11:18:57 on Thu, 15 Oct 2009, MIG
remarked:

There seems to be no
incentive to volunteer being bumped on a budget airline though.

Budget airlines don't overbook to the same extent, because you don't
have the issue of fully-flexible tickets where you might not know a
particular passenger has decided to take the next flight until they
don't turn up.

They don't need to bump you. *They'll just claim that your passport is
bent or contrive to delay you in a way that they'll claim is your
fault, and you'll miss the flight without compensation plus pay the
full fare for the next one.

Chatter, chatter.

Anyone ever seen that happen?

Yes.

Loads of people. Are they all making it up?

Anyway, it's good businesss practice, so why would they miss such an
obvious opportunity? It would be remiss.

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

Neil Williams wrote:
On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 20:12:58 +0100, "
wrote:

That's not to say that I would fly any budget airline, however.

Have you ever done? You might well find that it's not half as bad as
you think.

Neil

I have done. Some time ago, when I flew from Belfast to London Stansted.
The easyJet plane was late and the crew acted like it was the boarding
passengers' fault. One of them even told passengers to hurry up and get
on board the plane, and that if we are late, then it would be our fault,
and not theirs.

The flight was filled with football yahoos, the cabin crew were very
surly and the in-flight service was very poorly stocked. On top of that,
the surly cabin crew demanded that anybody purchasing what little was
available have exact change.

I wonder what the working conditions are like for easyJet pilots.

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

Neil Williams wrote:
On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 11:41:16 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

They've owned it (80% rather than just 30%) for a year now, so FSVO
"early". But there are rumours it might be sold to FlyBE.

Oh, dear. Another OKish airline sold to a dire one.

easyJet not interested?

Neil

I always thought Lufthansa was all right.

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

In message
, at
16:42:10 on Thu, 15 Oct 2009, MIG
remarked:
They don't need to bump you. *They'll just claim that your passport is
bent or contrive to delay you in a way that they'll claim is your
fault, and you'll miss the flight without compensation plus pay the
full fare for the next one.

Chatter, chatter.

Anyone ever seen that happen?

Yes.

Loads of people. Are they all making it up?

I've never seen it happen, and I fly on average once a week.

What I do see almost every trip, is people taking vastly oversize
luggage on board, and increasingly frequently having it taken off then
at the gate to be put in the hold. But never any of the "delaying
tactics" you mention.
--
Roland Perry

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

On 16 Oct, 06:48, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
16:42:10 on Thu, 15 Oct 2009, MIG
remarked:

They don't need to bump you. *They'll just claim that your passport is
bent or contrive to delay you in a way that they'll claim is your
fault, and you'll miss the flight without compensation plus pay the
full fare for the next one.

Chatter, chatter.

Anyone ever seen that happen?

Yes.

Loads of people. *Are they all making it up?

I've never seen it happen, and I fly on average once a week.

What I do see almost every trip, is people taking vastly oversize
luggage on board, and increasingly frequently having it taken off then
at the gate to be put in the hold. But never any of the "delaying
tactics" you mention.
--
Roland Perry

For some of us, some kind of mugging applies to 100% of journeys,
because it happens first time and you don't go back.

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 00:55:02 +0100, "
wrote:

I always thought Lufthansa was all right.

I was referring to flyBE.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 00:49:06 +0100, "
wrote:

To see things differently... I wasn't on that specific flight, of
course, but there are two sides to any story.

The easyJet plane was late and the crew acted like it was the boarding
passengers' fault. One of them even told passengers to hurry up and get
on board the plane, and that if we are late, then it would be our fault,
and not theirs.

"The easyJet plane was late and the crew did their best to minimise
delay by getting it turned around as soon as possible. One of them
asked people to board as quickly as possible and to take the first
seat they could see. They wanted to get home to finish their shift,
and we wanted to get home as well, so this suited us fine."

The flight was filled with football yahoos,

This can happen, but not on every flight.

the cabin crew were very
surly

"The cabin crew were stressed because of the delay and some passengers
didn't make it easier for them".

and the in-flight service was very poorly stocked.

"The in-flight service wasn't restocked at turnaround in order to
minimise delay".

On top of that,
the surly cabin crew demanded that anybody purchasing what little was
available have exact change.

"On top of that, the cabin crew asked that if people had exact change
that it would be helpful." (They usually do).

I wonder what the working conditions are like for easyJet pilots.

Perfectly good, as far as I know. They usually seem happy enough.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

In message
, at
23:45:05 on Thu, 15 Oct 2009, MIG
remarked:
For some of us, some kind of mugging applies to 100% of journeys,
because it happens first time and you don't go back.

You have a very low pain threshold! But like I said the other day, the
same attitude applies to many one-time/never-again users of our trains.
I'm dreading being crammed into the 19.15 from St Pancras tonight[1]. No
doubt the crew will be as cheerful as ever when they meet people with
something slightly wrong with their ticket, and might even get the
buffet going by the time we get to Luton (last week they couldn't get
the till open).

[1] It connects with my E*, I'm not trying to save money by travelling
on the first off-peak train.
--
Roland Perry

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

"Neil Williams" wrote in message

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 09:27:47 +0100, rail
wrote:

As far as ATOC (and the taxman) is concerned, it is a seperate
company. Presumably Megatrain could do similar deals with non
Stagecoach-owned companies if the latter were willing.

It was (may still be) offered on VT at one point, which of course is
only 49% Stagecoach.

Wasn't that only on Virgin Cross Country?

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
"Neil Williams" wrote in message

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 09:27:47 +0100, rail
wrote:

As far as ATOC (and the taxman) is concerned, it is a seperate
company. Presumably Megatrain could do similar deals with non
Stagecoach-owned companies if the latter were willing.

It was (may still be) offered on VT at one point, which of course is
only 49% Stagecoach.

Wasn't that only on Virgin Cross Country?

No, it was on various Virgin services including some cross country, before
the franchise carve up, but is still available on West Coast. I don't think
London - Scotland journeys are available, but London - Birmingham, and
Birmingham to Scotland definitely are...

Paul

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

In message
"Tim Fenton" wrote:


"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...

I wonder what the working conditions are like for easyJet pilots.

Perfectly good, as far as I know. They usually seem happy enough.

EZY have a good relationship with Balpa, whereas FR ... yes, well.


Given FR is an Irish based company, why should it have any relationship with
Balpa?

--
Graeme Wall

This address not read, substitute trains for rail
Transport Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

"MC" wrote in message
ster.com...
"DW downunder" noname wrote in message
...

"MC" wrote in message
ster.com...
SNIP
Er... this was 20+ years ago. How can you compare your experiences with
modern flying trends. The airline industry and regulations have moved
on enormously since then. Budget airlines were still only a twinkle in
the eyes of a lot of the current budget airline bosses.

Freddie Laker ring a bell? "Skytrain" - now when was that?


Not during the mid - late 80s timeframe we are talking here. It was a
trans-Atlantic service and also had a slightly different operation model
than modern day budget airlines including the fact that tickets were not
bookable and were only sold on a first come first served basis at the
point of departure.

MC


Oh, really!

Budget airlines (without further qualification) have been around for over 20
years. The Laker Skytrain was one example that predates the current crop.
That's all!

Anyone else remember Freddie?

DW downunder

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

In message
"DW downunder" noname wrote:


"MC" wrote in message
ster.com...
"DW downunder" noname wrote in message
...

"MC" wrote in message
ster.com... SNIP
Er... this was 20+ years ago. How can you compare your experiences
with modern flying trends. The airline industry and regulations
have moved on enormously since then. Budget airlines were still
only a twinkle in the eyes of a lot of the current budget airline
bosses.

Freddie Laker ring a bell? "Skytrain" - now when was that?


Not during the mid - late 80s timeframe we are talking here. It was a
trans-Atlantic service and also had a slightly different operation model
than modern day budget airlines including the fact that tickets were not
bookable and were only sold on a first come first served basis at the
point of departure.

MC


Oh, really!

Budget airlines (without further qualification) have been around for over
20 years. The Laker Skytrain was one example that predates the current
crop. That's all!

Anyone else remember Freddie?


I actually flew on one of his planes! Not the Skytrain but we did a Laker
package holiday to Rome in 1979, flew the same BAC111 both ways.

To placate the man who thinks he is a traction motor, the railway relevance
is that we were originally going to spend a weekend in York (and visit the
Railway Museum) travelling by train but a week in Rome was cheaper!

--
Graeme Wall

This address not read, substitute trains for rail
Transport Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

On Oct 16, 11:00*am, rail wrote:
EZY have a good relationship with Balpa, whereas FR ... yes, well.

Given FR is an Irish based company, why should it have any relationship with
Balpa?

Because their permanent Stansted staff (their largest site) are
employed in the UK under English law?

DaimlerChrysler was a German-based company, but "we're German, so you
can **** off" wouldn't have got it very far in a fight with the UAW...

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 18:16:43 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:
On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 11:41:16 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

They've owned it (80% rather than just 30%) for a year now, so FSVO
"early". But there are rumours it might be sold to FlyBE.

Oh, dear. Another OKish airline sold to a dire one.


Oh dear. I've just booked Flybe for December. :-(


easyJet not interested?


Probably not interested in a ragbag assortment of tired old aircraft.

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

"Bruce" wrote in message

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 18:16:43 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:
On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 11:41:16 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

They've owned it (80% rather than just 30%) for a year now, so FSVO
"early". But there are rumours it might be sold to FlyBE.

Oh, dear. Another OKish airline sold to a dire one.


Oh dear. I've just booked Flybe for December. :-(


easyJet not interested?


Probably not interested in a ragbag assortment of tired old aircraft.

.... which are probably leased anyway.

Wafted from paradise to Luton Airport
 

In message
John B wrote:

On Oct 16, 11:00*am, rail wrote:
EZY have a good relationship with Balpa, whereas FR ... yes, well.

Given FR is an Irish based company, why should it have any relationship
with Balpa?

Because their permanent Stansted staff (their largest site) are employed in
the UK under English law?

But does that include pilots?


--
Graeme Wall

This address not read, substitute trains for rail
Transport Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail