"Ian F." wrote in
:

As a Balham resident, I'm still reeling that allegedly £1m was spent
on this crossing when we have had one outside Balham station for over
four years! It is said to have cost £100k to create.

I'm old enough to remember when pedestrian phases at traffic lights were
first introduced in Edinburgh, where I then lived. The first one was at the
intersection of the Bridges and the High Street, and instead of red and
green men there was a white-on-black 'CROSS NOW' light (and merely the
absence of it to indicate that you shouldn't).

That one and all subsequent ones for some time gave the pedestrians a
dedicated phase, where they could cross diagonally if they wished - though
without the natty stripes on the road.

Some considerable time later, they started introducing ones where you
couldn't cross diagonally and there was a bit of publicity (and grumbling)
about the fact that you could not rely on being able to cross in any
direction. I don't recall anyone being squashed, but there was less
traffic about in those days.

To change the subject slightly, I see that (many? all?) new crossings have
the red and green man (person?) mounted at waist height at the side of the
road one is waiting at, rather than opposite. I suppose we'll get used to
it, but I've already seen people:
- look across the road, see no light and assume that there isn't a
pedestrian phase, especially where there are others waiting and obscuring
the new-style light, and
- even more worryingly, look across the road (say south to north) and see
the green man for the pedestrians crossing east to west, which is aimed
directly south, and plunge across the road into the traffic.

The second occurrence was after dark, on a road that went uphill south to
north, so the green light was at about the right height for an old-style
one.

Peter

--
| Peter Campbell Smith | Epsom | UK |

On 4 Nov, 12:18, Peter Campbell Smith wrote:
"Ian F." wrote :

As a Balham resident, I'm still reeling that allegedly £1m was spent
on this crossing when we have had one outside Balham station for over
four years! It is said to have cost £100k to create.

I'm old enough to remember when pedestrian phases at traffic lights were
first introduced in Edinburgh, where I then lived. The first one was at the
intersection of the Bridges and the High Street, and instead of red and
green men there was a white-on-black 'CROSS NOW' light (and merely the
absence of it to indicate that you shouldn't).

That one and all subsequent ones for some time gave the pedestrians a
dedicated phase, where they could cross diagonally if they wished - though
without the natty stripes on the road.

Some considerable time later, they started introducing ones where you
couldn't cross diagonally and there was a bit of publicity (and grumbling)
about the fact that you could not rely on being able to cross in any
direction. *I don't recall anyone being squashed, but there was less
traffic about in those days.

To change the subject slightly, I see that (many? all?) new crossings have
the red and green man (person?) mounted at waist height at the side of the
road one is waiting at, rather than opposite. *I suppose we'll get used to
it, but I've already seen people:
- look across the road, see no light and assume that there isn't a
pedestrian phase, especially where there are others waiting and obscuring
the new-style light, and
- even more worryingly, look across the road (say south to north) and see
the green man for the pedestrians crossing east to west, which is aimed
directly south, and plunge across the road into the traffic.

The second occurrence was after dark, on a road that went uphill south to
north, so the green light was at about the right height for an old-style
one.

Peter

Unless it's changed recently, the junction of Poultry/Cheapside and
King Street/Queen Street is rather special.

As well as the various vehicle and pedestrian phases, there's rather
long period every phase when all the traffic lights and all the
pedestrian lights are red, ie nothing and no one can move.

I've never understood the reason for that.

In message , at 12:18:22 on Wed,
4 Nov 2009, Peter Campbell Smith remarked:
To change the subject slightly, I see that (many? all?) new crossings have
the red and green man (person?) mounted at waist height at the side of the
road one is waiting at, rather than opposite. I suppose we'll get used to
it, but I've already seen people:
- look across the road, see no light and assume that there isn't a
pedestrian phase, especially where there are others waiting and obscuring
the new-style light, and
- even more worryingly, look across the road (say south to north) and see
the green man for the pedestrians crossing east to west, which is aimed
directly south, and plunge across the road into the traffic.

These new crossings are a complete disaster, and should be banned
immediately.

If for no other reason than the red/green men are obscured as soon as
there is more than a couple of people waiting to cross.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 12:18:22 on Wed, 4
Nov 2009, Peter Campbell Smith remarked:
To change the subject slightly, I see that (many? all?) new crossings have
the red and green man (person?) mounted at waist height at the side of the
road one is waiting at, rather than opposite. I suppose we'll get used to
it, but I've already seen people:
- look across the road, see no light and assume that there isn't a
pedestrian phase, especially where there are others waiting and obscuring
the new-style light, and
- even more worryingly, look across the road (say south to north) and see
the green man for the pedestrians crossing east to west, which is aimed
directly south, and plunge across the road into the traffic.

These new crossings are a complete disaster, and should be banned
immediately.

If for no other reason than the red/green men are obscured as soon as
there is more than a couple of people waiting to cross.
--
Roland Perry

Hear, hear. They are totally stupid.

MaxB

On 4 Nov, 13:50, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:18:22 on Wed,
4 Nov 2009, Peter Campbell Smith remarked:

To change the subject slightly, I see that (many? all?) new crossings have
the red and green man (person?) mounted at waist height at the side of the
road one is waiting at, rather than opposite. *I suppose we'll get used to
it, but I've already seen people:
- look across the road, see no light and assume that there isn't a
pedestrian phase, especially where there are others waiting and obscuring
the new-style light, and
- even more worryingly, look across the road (say south to north) and see
the green man for the pedestrians crossing east to west, which is aimed
directly south, and plunge across the road into the traffic.

These new crossings are a complete disaster, and should be banned
immediately.

If for no other reason than the red/green men are obscured as soon as
there is more than a couple of people waiting to cross.
--
Roland Perry

Oh god yes, it won't be a moment too soon when they are banned. They
seem to be universally despised, for good reason.

Another problem with many of them is that they are set a long way back
into the pavement and can't be seen at all from the position one
stands in waiting to cross the road. A good example is Theobalds Road
in London where you have to stand back almost against the wall,
blocking the pavement, to be able to see the lights.

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:18:22 on Wed,
4 Nov 2009, Peter Campbell Smith remarked:
To change the subject slightly, I see that (many? all?) new crossings
have
the red and green man (person?) mounted at waist height at the side of
the
road one is waiting at, rather than opposite. I suppose we'll get
used to
it, but I've already seen people:
- look across the road, see no light and assume that there isn't a
pedestrian phase, especially where there are others waiting and obscuring
the new-style light, and
- even more worryingly, look across the road (say south to north) and see
the green man for the pedestrians crossing east to west, which is aimed
directly south, and plunge across the road into the traffic.

These new crossings are a complete disaster, and should be banned
immediately.

Is there a theoretical reason why they are supposed to be "better"? I
did try Googling when one of the blasted things arrived near here, but
couldn't find a good explanation.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

In message , at
17:44:06 on Wed, 4 Nov 2009, Arthur Figgis
remarked:
Is there a theoretical reason why they are supposed to be "better"? I
did try Googling when one of the blasted things arrived near here, but
couldn't find a good explanation.

Yes, to look at the red/green men, you have to face the oncoming
traffic. Supposedly you are therefore less likely to run across the road
having failed to notice that there *is* and oncoming traffic (regardless
of the state of the men).

One of the many flaws is that if you are consciously wanting to look for
the red/green men, you probably also aren't likely to be taking a punt
on running across the road regardless of the state of the lights.

For a couple of generations we've been trained, cajoled and exhorted to
look for the red/green men across the road, high up. We simply don't
expect to find them on our side of the road, at knee height. Sideways.
--
Roland Perry

On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 12:18:22 +0000 (UTC), Peter Campbell Smith
wrote:

To change the subject slightly, I see that (many? all?) new crossings have
the red and green man (person?) mounted at waist height at the side of the
road one is waiting at, rather than opposite. I suppose we'll get used to
it, but I've already seen people:

I think those are an almighty pain in the backside, as it isn't
necessarily possible to find the box, establish the light is green and
cross the road without breaking stride from a fast walking pace,
particularly if people are standing in the way of it or you are (as I
am) a wearer of spectacles[1]. This is, OTOH, possible with the
traditional type.

Indeed, with those ones I often find myself looking at the traffic
lights controlling the road traffic instead.

[1] because they narrow your field of vision slightly compared with
contact lenses or not needing any at all!

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On 4 Nov, 20:46, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
17:44:06 on Wed, 4 Nov 2009, Arthur Figgis
remarked:

Is there a theoretical reason why they are supposed to be "better"? I
did try Googling when one of the blasted things arrived near here, but
couldn't find a good explanation.

Yes, to look at the red/green men, you have to face the oncoming
traffic. Supposedly you are therefore less likely to run across the road
having failed to notice that there *is* and oncoming traffic (regardless
of the state of the men).

One of the many flaws is that if you are consciously wanting to look for
the red/green men, you probably also aren't likely to be taking a punt
on running across the road regardless of the state of the lights.

For a couple of generations we've been trained, cajoled and exhorted to
look for the red/green men across the road, high up. We simply don't
expect to find them on our side of the road, at knee height. Sideways.

Backwards in many situations. You have to look away from the road and/
or step back.

MIG wrote:
On 4 Nov, 20:46, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
17:44:06 on Wed, 4 Nov 2009, Arthur Figgis
remarked:

Is there a theoretical reason why they are supposed to be "better"? I
did try Googling when one of the blasted things arrived near here, but
couldn't find a good explanation.
Yes, to look at the red/green men, you have to face the oncoming
traffic. Supposedly you are therefore less likely to run across the road
having failed to notice that there *is* and oncoming traffic (regardless
of the state of the men).

One of the many flaws is that if you are consciously wanting to look for
the red/green men, you probably also aren't likely to be taking a punt
on running across the road regardless of the state of the lights.

For a couple of generations we've been trained, cajoled and exhorted to
look for the red/green men across the road, high up. We simply don't
expect to find them on our side of the road, at knee height. Sideways.

Backwards in many situations. You have to look away from the road and/
or step back.

Having another search, it seems the main feature is detecting people on
the crossing and using that to adjust the timings. (OMFG now big brother
watches us cross the road!!! etc etc)

This page seems to say the lights are in a funny place for visually
impred users. The information is contained only in an image, with no ALT
text :-)
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tpm/...rossing?page=2
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK