In message , neverwas
writes
I can see that the grippers wouldn't necessarily know I was not getting
off *in* Zone 1 and touching out there.

Isn't it much the same as if you cross London with a NR ticket from one
side of London to another with a + on it: you can cross zone 1 on the
tube but cannot validly get out except at designated NR terminus
stations?

On the other hand they could if
were gripped while transiting from zone 1 to zone 2.

Even so, you would be travelling on a valid Oyster ticket, having
touched in at the start; they wouldn't know where you are planning to
touch out, would they? Is there any requirement to re-touch en-route
to show the Oyster system that you are using a particular route (except
if it is to your advantage to show that you are using a cheaper route
such as one which avoids zone 1)? I don't think so.

It seems to me that such a journey is valid at all points, and if the
system charges you a cheaper fare on the assumption that you have used a
particular route, that is not your problem.

--
Clive Page

On 5 Dec, 18:51, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:
On 5 Dec, 13:35, Jonathan Harris wrote:





On Dec 5, 11:23*am, Uncle-C wrote:

Thanks for the updated info. There has been some continuity introduced
in the prices, for example the z1-6 discounted cap on Oyster PAYG used
to be £4.60, whereas the cash price of the discounted z1-6 paper
ticket OD Travelcard was £5.00. Both fares are now the same. £3.35 for
z2-6 cap ( including all the NR Lines within the zones) is a damn good
value in anyone's book !

Herne Hill to Watford Junction - why is the main fare shown the one to
avoid zone 1? *How are you meant to manage to do that?

Here's another anomaly (albeit not on the main fare shown) and good
value.

East Croydon to Amersham (avoiding zone 1) is £2.20 off peak!

Clapham Junction to Amersham (avoiding zone 1) is £2.30 off peak

East Croydon to Clapham Junction is £2.00 off peak.

It seems to assume that the default route (without any OSIs) is via
Clapham Junction.
However, if your OSI is on the Thameslink route, you avoid the premium
for zone 1 tube + train fares.
Otherwise, using a Zone 1 NR-Tube OSI charges you the premium.

The section on OEPs seems to suggest that they only last for the first
journey after loading, even if you touch out within your travelcard
zones.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oyster...spx#section-5- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Presumably, Herne Hill - Brixton - Vauxhall - Clapham Junction -
Watford Junction (which is a bit of an awkward way to avoid zone 1),
and, if so, why doesn't it specify that this is the routing?

"Mr Thant" wrote in message
...
On 6 Dec, 10:35, "neverwas" wrote:
I can see that the grippers wouldn't necessarily know I was not
getting
off *in* Zone 1 and touching out there. On the other hand they could
if
were gripped while transiting from zone 1 to zone 2.

One of the tenets of PAYG is that you can take any route you like as
long as you touch in and out at either end, and TfL takes
responsibility for choosing the correct fare. If the system guesses
wrongly about which route you took, it's their problem, not yours.
Even using a pink validator doesn't bar you from zone 1 - the route is
defined as "A to B via pink validator C", not "A to B avoiding zone
1".

I think if someone was spotted getting off the Central line at
Stratford, going to the NLL platforms to touch the validator, before
returning to the Central line that would be considered deliberate fare
evasion.

Peter Smyth

Jonathan Harris wrote:
On 5 Dec, 18:51, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:
On 5 Dec, 13:35, Jonathan Harris wrote:

Herne Hill to Watford Junction - why is the main fare shown the one to
avoid zone 1? *How are you meant to manage to do that?


It seems to assume that the default route (without any OSIs) is via
Clapham Junction.

Presumably, Herne Hill - Brixton - Vauxhall - Clapham Junction -
Watford Junction (which is a bit of an awkward way to avoid zone 1),
and, if so, why doesn't it specify that this is the routing?

More likely, Herne Hill -- either Mitcham Eastfields or Wimbledon --
Clapham Junction -- Watford Junction.

I'm grateful and (I think) persuaded. It still feels wrong compared
with the treatment of travelcards but I suppose they get their reward in
lower prices (leaving aside 3 month blockades).
--
R

On 6 Dec, 13:02, Jonathan Harris wrote:
On 5 Dec, 18:51, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:



On 5 Dec, 13:35, Jonathan Harris wrote:

On Dec 5, 11:23*am, Uncle-C wrote:

Thanks for the updated info. There has been some continuity introduced
in the prices, for example the z1-6 discounted cap onOysterPAYG used
to be £4.60, whereas the cash price of the discounted z1-6 paper
ticket OD Travelcard was £5.00. Both fares are now the same. £3..35 for
z2-6 cap ( including all the NR Lines within the zones) is a damn good
value in anyone's book !

Herne Hill to Watford Junction - why is the main fare shown the one to
avoid zone 1? *How are you meant to manage to do that?

Here's another anomaly (albeit not on the main fare shown) and good
value.

East Croydon to Amersham (avoiding zone 1) is £2.20 off peak!

Clapham Junction to Amersham (avoiding zone 1) is £2.30 off peak

East Croydon to Clapham Junction is £2.00 off peak.

It seems to assume that the default route (without any OSIs) is via
Clapham Junction.
However, if your OSI is on the Thameslink route, you avoid the premium
for zone 1 tube + train fares.
Otherwise, using a Zone 1 NR-Tube OSI charges you the premium.

The section on OEPs seems to suggest that they only last for the first
journey after loading, even if you touch out within your travelcard
zones.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oyster...section-5-Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Presumably, Herne Hill - Brixton - Vauxhall - Clapham Junction -
Watford Junction (which is a bit of an awkward way to avoid zone 1),
and, if so, why doesn't it specify that this is the routing?

A fair question. Until the Single Fare Finder and Journey Planner are
integrated, it will be difficult for people to know what they are
going to pay for any particular route.

On 6 Dec, 21:47, "neverwas" wrote:
I'm grateful and (I think) persuaded. *It still feels wrong compared
with the treatment of travelcards but I suppose they get their reward in
lower prices (leaving aside 3 month blockades).
--
R

It seems as if PAYG and travelcards might both have a disadvantage
over point-to-point tickets when it comes to diversionary routes.

It never seems fair to pay the same for a longer, diverted journey,
let alone more, but that's a general problem.

MIG wrote:
On 6 Dec, 21:47, "neverwas" wrote:
I'm grateful and (I think) persuaded. It still feels wrong compared
with the treatment of travelcards but I suppose they get their
reward in lower prices (leaving aside 3 month blockades).
--
R

It seems as if PAYG and travelcards might both have a disadvantage
over point-to-point tickets when it comes to diversionary routes.

It never seems fair to pay the same for a longer, diverted journey,
let alone more, but that's a general problem.

Yes - the more so as I realise belatedly that the practicable routes
available to me in the absence of the NLL all seem to involve both
travel through Zone 1 and the assumption of travel through Zone 1. So I
think I revert to my original thought that the fare finder ought perhaps
to include a health warning about diversions. (I accept this is just a
subset of the more general point made by JD about integration of the
Fare Finder and Journey Planner.)
--
R

On Dec 4, 4:28*pm, martin wrote:

The main page for the 2010 fares is athttp://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresandtickets/2930.aspx
As yet, there doesn't appear to be a PDF of the leaflet.

I've noticed posters appearing around the network for the new fares,
directing people to the fares website - no mention of 'pick up a
leaflet', and no sign of them in ticket offices yet either. I wonder
TfL have deemed it too expensive to produce one this year?

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...

I thought there would also be the "World of Oyster" map made available
in print form but no sign of that either. Again it can't really be
tenable for that map not to be available in printed form - if National
Rail can publish a leaflet and a map I fail to see why TfL cannot do the
same.

The London Connections map, Dec 09 version, seems to achieve the same aim as
the 'World of Oyster' map by the simple expedient of adding a dotted line
round the zones, including zone 'W' and 'G'.

Obviously slightly different in that the rail routes predominate, and they
are colour coded by TOC, rather than by terminus, but there seems to be
little point in having two subtly different versions of the same info?

Paul S