On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 06:31:42 -0800, ticketyboo wrote:


- But, if more than one of those cards collects enough power to operate,
the terminal then has to use the anti-collision mechanism specified by
the standard (ISO 14443 in the case of Oyster and bank payment cards -
and also for ITSO cards) in order to identify all the operating cards,
send the ones that it doesn't want to communicate with to sleep, and
then carry out its transaction.

My experience with having a (new) Singapore CEPAS ezlink in my wallet is
an Oyster terminal says 'multiple cards presented' and then won't
continue until you remove the other cards from it's field so it only sees
one.

And the Singapore card has a better antenna - I discovered that the LU
gates were still getting upset - I had removed my oyster from my wallet
and was placing it on the reader to open the gates - but as I walked
through the gates beeped. It dawned on me later, the Oyster pad must have
been getting a response from the Singapore CEPAS card as I walked through
the gate - at range of over 20cm between my hip pocket and the Oyster
reader pad. (The Oyster card being my my hand or back in my shirt pocket
by this stage).

Matthew Geier wrote

On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 06:31:42 -0800, ticketyboo wrote:


- But, if more than one of those cards collects enough power to
operate,
the terminal then has to use the anti-collision mechanism specified
by
the standard (ISO 14443 in the case of Oyster and bank payment
cards -
and also for ITSO cards) in order to identify all the operating
cards,
send the ones that it doesn't want to communicate with to sleep,
and
then carry out its transaction.

My experience with having a (new) Singapore CEPAS ezlink in my
wallet is
an Oyster terminal says 'multiple cards presented' and then won't
continue until you remove the other cards from it's field so it only
sees
one.

And the Singapore card has a better antenna - I discovered that the
LU
gates were still getting upset - I had removed my oyster from my
wallet
and was placing it on the reader to open the gates - but as I walked
through the gates beeped. It dawned on me later, the Oyster pad must
have
been getting a response from the Singapore CEPAS card as I walked
through
the gate - at range of over 20cm between my hip pocket and the Oyster

reader pad. (The Oyster card being my my hand or back in my shirt
pocket
by this stage).

obviously you should wrap the Singapore card in tinfoil - err aluminium
foil - like an RFID passport.

But if you want hands-free entrance to your office block and the
anti-collision mechanism isn't implemented properly a lot of card
shuffling is going to have to take place.

--
Mike D

I wonder if TfL will eventually get rid of the magnetic strip tickets in
favour of disposable SmartCards for single journeys or infrequent trips?

On 30 Jan 2010 00:29:48 GMT someone who may be "Michael R N Dolbear"
wrote this:-

obviously you should wrap the Singapore card in tinfoil - err aluminium
foil - like an RFID passport.

Sleeves and wallets are available [1]. Anyone who does not have
their passport/card(s) in one, and thus is able to know when it is
read, is taking a risk which will only become greater over time.


[1] for example
http://www.smartcardfocus.com/shop/ilp/se~102/p/index.shtml



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000...#pt3-pb3-l1g54

On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 08:31:36PM +0000, Matthew Geier wrote:

And the Singapore card has a better antenna - I discovered that the LU
gates were still getting upset - I had removed my oyster from my wallet
and was placing it on the reader to open the gates - but as I walked
through the gates beeped. It dawned on me later, the Oyster pad must have
been getting a response from the Singapore CEPAS card as I walked through
the gate - at range of over 20cm between my hip pocket and the Oyster
reader pad.

And yet people still think contactless payment systems are a good idea.

Proprietary stored value cards that only work in closed systems like
Oyster aren't so bad, but I wouldn't feel particularly happy at
accidentally paying for the purchases of the person in front of me in
the queue at the petrol station.

--
David Cantrell | London Perl Mongers Deputy Chief Heretic

Fashion label: n: a liferaft for personalities
which lack intrinsic buoyancy

On 29/01/2010 14:31, ticketyboo wrote:
And the terminal does not implement the anti-collision function...

Yikes, I expect it would cost a fair amount to replace all those
readers, which they will have to do when more and more people are
carrying cards with rfid in them (apart from oyster).


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On Jan 30, 1:38*am, Chris Hills wrote:
On 29/01/2010 14:31, ticketyboo wrote:

And the terminal does not implement the anti-collision function...

Yikes, I expect it would cost a fair amount to replace all those
readers, which they will have to do when more and more people are
carrying cards with rfid in them (apart from oyster).

*signature.asc
1KViewDownload

Part of the investment coming about as a result of TfL breaking the
Transys contract at its breakpoint this year is that new investment is
triggered (including some DfT money), which is how all the readers and
embedded controllers in the gates and buses will be upgraded to handle
ITSO and contactless bank payment as well as Oyster.

......
I was going to contact Barclaycard to ask whether I could have a card
without PayPass, but after recalling previous experiences dealing with their
customer services I decided against it...

Net result: Barclaycard have lost my business to AmEx, and I get the bonus
of a credit card company that don't treat their customers with contempt.
.....

I did contact Barclaycard, and they promised me that was no problem; a
week later I received a new card...with paypass still on it. A few
phonecalls later and I too had left Barclaycard - awful CS.

stan5001 wrote:

Barclaycard - awful CS.

Couldn't agree more. Another "Lets outsource it to India and provide the
workers with a first line script that doesn't actually work for
customers" operation.

On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 02:44:17 -0800, CJB wrote:


embarrasment. The culprit was the Hillingdon Community Services card -
which seems to use the same technology as Oyster and was causing a
confict. An irritation 'cos now I have to keep them in separated.

This is going to start happening more and more as various other
organisations start using non contact smart cards.

The people who make the 'access control' system at my work have said
they want to replace the mag-strip readers with MiFare Classic readers
and replace all our cards. Oyster is Mifare Class - so the door reader at
work will one day cause any near by Oyster card to respond as well as the
'proper' access card, with the system probably objecting when it gets
responses from two cards instead of one.