Afternoon all,

Here is a story which my housemate just told me.

He arrived at Heathrow by aeroplane at 2230 last night (friday). He'd
previously booked a minicab (from Network Cars of Crouch End, for the
benefit of anyone googling that firm in future) to pick him up and bring
him home to Finsbury Park. He'd been quoted a price of 40 pounds.

(Why he didn't just get the Piccadilly line, i don't know - i suppose
because he could expense a taxi, and preferred that to schlepping his
luggage through the tube.)

A colleague of his was flying with him, and lives near us, so they decided
to share the taxi.

The driver told them that he was not insured to take more than one person,
and that the price would therefore be 80 pounds for the two of them. My
housemate asked him to check this with his controller, and after radioing
in, he claimed that it would actually only be 10 pounds extra, at 50
pounds.

In the end, the colleague was so annoyed by this that she took the tube.
My housemate still took the taxi.

Is there any possible truth to his assertion about insurance, or was this
a barefaced attempt at a scam?

Out of interest, any idea how much a black cab from Heathrow to Finsbury
Park would cost?

tom

--
My mother always said that democracy is the best revenge - Bilawal
Bhutto Zardari

In message . li, Tom
Anderson writes

Here is a story which my housemate just told me.

He arrived at Heathrow by aeroplane at 2230 last night (friday). He'd
previously booked a minicab (from Network Cars of Crouch End, for the
benefit of anyone googling that firm in future) to pick him up and
bring him home to Finsbury Park. He'd been quoted a price of 40 pounds.

(Why he didn't just get the Piccadilly line, i don't know - i suppose
because he could expense a taxi, and preferred that to schlepping his
luggage through the tube.)

A colleague of his was flying with him, and lives near us, so they
decided to share the taxi.

The driver told them that he was not insured to take more than one
person, and that the price would therefore be 80 pounds for the two of
them. My housemate asked him to check this with his controller, and
after radioing in, he claimed that it would actually only be 10 pounds
extra, at 50 pounds.

In the end, the colleague was so annoyed by this that she took the
tube. My housemate still took the taxi.

Is there any possible truth to his assertion about insurance, or was
this a barefaced attempt at a scam?

Nothing to do with insurance - he was more likely referring to his
private hire licence. He'd be in serious trouble if he picked-up anyone
who had not been pre-booked. In the case in point, where only one
passenger had been booked, it would be necessary to get back to the
operator and have the booking changed to two people. Some companies
don't charge for this, but many do. In this particular case, he'd be
aware that someone else was going to lose a good fare from Heathrow to
Crouch End for the other passenger. £10 seems reasonable to me, although
certainly not £40.

Out of interest, any idea how much a black cab from Heathrow to
Finsbury Park would cost?

At least £70.
--
Paul Terry

Tom Anderson wrote:

The driver told them that he was not insured to take more than one
person, and that the price would therefore be 80 pounds for the two
of them. My housemate asked him to check this with his controller,
and after radioing in, he claimed that it would actually only be 10
pounds extra, at 50 pounds.

In the end, the colleague was so annoyed by this that she took the
tube. My housemate still took the taxi.

"minicab".

Is there any possible truth to his assertion about insurance,

While it's probably possible to license a two-seater car as a minicab, which
would then be only insured to carry one passenger, this is unlikely to be
the case here. It's certainly not possible that paying extra money would
solve any problem.

or was this a barefaced attempt at a scam?

Barefaced attempt at a scam. Similar things frequently happen going towards
the airport, when the minicabs rely on people not wanting to miss their
flight, having no time to make alternative arrangements and leaving the
country. The foreigners ask the hotel for a "taxi" for four people - they
are told it will be 50 quid - they say fine, because the black cab they took
from the airport cost 60 quid - when it shows up it's 50 quid per person -
40 quid ends up going into the pocket of the hotel concierge. I have no idea
why this is legal when it is not legal for taxi drivers to behave like
this - the assumption that market forces will keep minicab companies in
check clearly does not work in this sort of situation.

Out of interest, any idea how much a black cab from Heathrow to
Finsbury Park would cost?

70-75 pounds at that time of night, less during the day. Taximeters work on
the assumption that the driver will have to return empty, which in the
provinces and suburbs is nearly always true. The minicab company will
usually tie up a trip to the airport with a trip back from the airport, and
will be using a cheaper vehicle and so should be charging around half the
metered fare. Suburb to suburb minicab trips usually cost a similar amount
to the metered taxi fare, because the opportunity to also get paid for the
return journey is not there - but can easily cost two or three times as much
as a black cab if they "see you coming".

--
We are the Strasbourg. Referendum is futile.

In message . li, at
13:40:37 on Sat, 20 Feb 2010, Tom Anderson
remarked:
Is there any possible truth to his assertion about insurance, or was
this a barefaced attempt at a scam?

Sounds 99% likely to be a scam. I've never heard of such a thing.

Did get a surprise in the Middle East recently - the client ordered a
"car" from the airport to the hotel, and it turned out to be a minibus.
And the fare they had quoted was therefore per person not per trip.
That's the first time I was caught out like that - although it wouldn't
normally matter, I'd met a colleague on the plane and offered them a
ride to the hotel, which turned out not to be "free" after all!

Out of interest, any idea how much a black cab from Heathrow to
Finsbury Park would cost?

It's about 36km. At that time of night, the first 9.4km will cost £24.20
(including Heathrow supplement) the remaining approx 27km at 20p/100m or
£54 so a total of about £78.

--
Roland Perry

In message , at 14:52:11 on Sat,
20 Feb 2010, Paul Terry remarked:
Nothing to do with insurance - he was more likely referring to his
private hire licence. He'd be in serious trouble if he picked-up anyone
who had not been pre-booked. In the case in point, where only one
passenger had been booked, it would be necessary to get back to the
operator and have the booking changed to two people.

I've never heard of that before. Is it a London thing? I never get asked
how many people are involved when I book a private hire car outside
London, and if they had ever refused to take my wife with me I'd
certainly have noticed!
--
Roland Perry

In message , Roland Perry
writes

In message , at 14:52:11 on Sat,
20 Feb 2010, Paul Terry remarked:

Nothing to do with insurance - he was more likely referring to his
private hire licence. He'd be in serious trouble if he picked-up
anyone who had not been pre-booked. In the case in point, where only
one passenger had been booked, it would be necessary to get back to
the operator and have the booking changed to two people.

I've never heard of that before. Is it a London thing?

Yes - London has its own act for private hire vehicles ("The Private
Hire Vehicles (London) Act 1998"). To quote TfL's guidance for drivers
and operators:

"PHV drivers who pick up passengers that have not been booked
through their PHV operators are plying for hire and are therefore
committing the offence of touting for which they may be prosecuted and
their PHV driver’s licence suspended or revoked."

I think that the driver in the case concerned was applying the real
letter of the law in order to extract a bit more cash for the fare,
since he wasn't actually touting. But I suspect he was technically
correct because the passenger who made the booking had presumably only
booked for one person.
--
Paul Terry

In message , at 17:31:54 on Sat,
20 Feb 2010, Paul Terry remarked:
Nothing to do with insurance - he was more likely referring to his
private hire licence. He'd be in serious trouble if he picked-up
anyone who had not been pre-booked. In the case in point, where only
one passenger had been booked, it would be necessary to get back to
the operator and have the booking changed to two people.

I've never heard of that before. Is it a London thing?

Yes - London has its own act for private hire vehicles ("The Private
Hire Vehicles (London) Act 1998"). To quote TfL's guidance for drivers
and operators:

"PHV drivers who pick up passengers that have not been booked
through their PHV operators are plying for hire and are therefore
committing the offence of touting for which they may be prosecuted and
their PHV driver’s licence suspended or revoked."

So they can't take a commission to collect "Mr Perry's party" without me
first saying how many people it is? (Modulo less than a car full).
--
Roland Perry

On 20 Feb, 17:31, Paul Terry wrote:
In message , Roland Perry
writes

In message , at 14:52:11 on Sat,
20 Feb 2010, Paul Terry remarked:
Nothing to do with insurance - he was more likely referring to his
private hire licence. He'd be in serious trouble if he picked-up
anyone who had not been pre-booked. In the case in point, where only
one passenger had been booked, it would be necessary to get back to
the operator and have the booking changed to two people.
I've never heard of that before. Is it a London thing?

Yes - London has its own act for private hire vehicles ("The Private
Hire Vehicles (London) Act 1998"). To quote TfL's guidance for drivers
and operators:

"PHV drivers who pick up passengers that have not been booked
through their PHV operators are plying for hire and are therefore
committing the offence of touting for which they may be prosecuted and
their PHV driver’s licence suspended or revoked."

I think that the driver in the case concerned was applying the real
letter of the law in order to extract a bit more cash for the fare,
since he wasn't actually touting. But I suspect he was technically
correct because the passenger who made the booking had presumably only
booked for one person.


So how is that resolved by asking for more money?

Surely taking the extra person for free would not be touting, but
charging extra would be.

On Feb 20, 5:31*pm, Paul Terry wrote:

In message , Roland Perry
writes

In message , at 14:52:11 on Sat,
20 Feb 2010, Paul Terry remarked:
Nothing to do with insurance - he was more likely referring to his
private hire licence. He'd be in serious trouble if he picked-up
anyone who had not been pre-booked. In the case in point, where only
one passenger had been booked, it would be necessary to get back to
the operator and have the booking changed to two people.
I've never heard of that before. Is it a London thing?

Yes - London has its own act for private hire vehicles ("The Private
Hire Vehicles (London) Act 1998"). To quote TfL's guidance for drivers
and operators:

"PHV drivers who pick up passengers that have not been booked
through their PHV operators are plying for hire and are therefore
committing the offence of touting for which they may be prosecuted and
their PHV driver’s licence suspended or revoked."

I think that the driver in the case concerned was applying the real
letter of the law in order to extract a bit more cash for the fare,
since he wasn't actually touting. But I suspect he was technically
correct because the passenger who made the booking had presumably only
booked for one person.

Sorry Paul but I have never come across a minicab firm in London that
demands to know how exactly many passengers are being picked up for a
normal booking - obviously if it's five or more people then you're
into booking a people carrier territory, that or two minicabs, but
never has the minicab office wanted to know whether it was one, two,
three or four passengers. Nor have I ever come across a minicab that
has turned up and refused passengers because there's too many
passengers (if the number of passengers is higher than one but no more
than four, of course). Minicab firms book "cars" (i.e. carloads) , not
individual passengers.

I really don't think it could possibly count as "plying for trade"
when a minicab picks up three passengers instead of two. Nor does
picking up someone else en route count either i.e. someone else known
to the existing passengers. All sorts of completely normal
arrangements would be considered null and void under your above
reading of the rules.

The whole anti-"plying for trade" rule is about prohibiting minicab
drivers from roaming the streets looking for a non-booked job - i.e.
those minicab drivers milling around outside a club or bar at kicking
out time, or those who do slow drive-bys next to night bus stops
trying to pick up a fare. Both of which still happen.

On Feb 20, 1:40*pm, Tom Anderson wrote:

Afternoon all,

Here is a story which my housemate just told me.

He arrived at Heathrow by aeroplane at 2230 last night (friday). He'd
previously booked a minicab (from Network Cars of Crouch End, for the
benefit of anyone googling that firm in future) to pick him up and bring
him home to Finsbury Park. He'd been quoted a price of 40 pounds.

(Why he didn't just get the Piccadilly line, i don't know - i suppose
because he could expense a taxi, and preferred that to schlepping his
luggage through the tube.)

A colleague of his was flying with him, and lives near us, so they decided
to share the taxi.

The driver told them that he was not insured to take more than one person,
and that the price would therefore be 80 pounds for the two of them. My
housemate asked him to check this with his controller, and after radioing
in, he claimed that it would actually only be 10 pounds extra, at 50
pounds.

In the end, the colleague was so annoyed by this that she took the tube.
My housemate still took the taxi.

Is there any possible truth to his assertion about insurance, or was this
a barefaced attempt at a scam?

Absolute total horse****, of course. Sounds like they're a firm to
avoid. Interesting to note the discrepancy between the drivers idea of
an achievable scam, i.e. double money, and the controllers slightly
less outrageous notion of an extra tenner on top - would the driver
have to split it with the controller later on for going along with it
all I wonder?

Good on the colleague for telling him to get stuffed. No-one should
stand for such nonsense. Always a good idea to agree a price
beforehand with control and also then with the driver, and have none
of it if they try and bump it up somehow.