On 19/03/2010 15:24, d wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 15:02:08 +0000
Roland wrote:
"The passport's critical information is both printed on the data page
of the passport and stored in the chip."

So nothing "extra". The data concerned is required at check-in by
numerous foreign hotels, so is in effect public information.

I never said it was anything extra. But you don't normally leave your
passport open on the details page and let strangers photocopy it which
is the equivalent of what the RFID allows.

They tend to copy details down manually, but I think I've had somewhere
want to scan it. When in a hurry in Cyrillic-land I've sometimes
regretted having Жingstoи Upoи Hцљ written out in full as my place of
birth.

(if the police are reading this, I was fully registered en route to
Subotica, honest)

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On 19/03/2010 10:33, tim.... wrote:
At any of the London Airports IME it is now very rare to queue for less than
20 minutes at immigration, though they are introducing machines which let
you avoid this queue if you have a "chip"" passport.

I passed through LHR T3 on Feb 14 about 21.00, IIRC it took about 15 min
to clear immigration. From landing to Feltham station (via 285 bus) took
almost exactly an hour, though hand bags only.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

In message
, at
11:36:12 on Fri, 19 Mar 2010, Mizter T remarked:

On Mar 19, 5:01*pm, Roland Perry wrote:
[snip]
Heathrow and Victoria bus station are both places to avoid at all costs.
Planning both of them in one trip is simply masochism.

Why do you say that?

They just are.

By the way, Victoria bus station is the thing in the forecourt outside
Victoria railway station with all the red London buses, whilst
Victoria Coach Station (VCS) is down the road.

Yeah, I meant the coach station.
--
Roland Perry

On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 16:58:23 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
Happens all the time at foreign hotel desks. The information isn't
secret - if you are relying this, please be advised that "security by
obscurity" is a very bad policy.

Hotels check your passport to make sure its you but I don't remember
any of them photocopying my details.

Not necessarily. The point is it doesn't have to be in contact which the
reader. Someone could brush past you

Goalposts "few metres" zooom "brush past"

Not really. The point is it can be done without you knowing about it.

even with a low powered reader and still grab the info. Its been done
with Oyster cards so it could be done with passports.

Breaking the encryption?

According to the wikipedia page it seems they're getting there.

And you don't even need to break the encryption , just clone the data bit
for bit. And thats been done.

B2003

On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 17:28:18 -0000
"tim...." wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 10:33:29 -0000
"tim...." wrote:
At any of the London Airports IME it is now very rare to queue for less
than
20 minutes at immigration, though they are introducing machines which let
you avoid this queue if you have a "chip"" passport.

Ah yes , arn't they wonderful? All your details stored on it unencrypted
which
can be read from a few metres away with the right machine.

As they are the same details that can be read with a set of eyes, why is
this a problem?

How many eyes do you know that have x-ray vision and can read the passport
when its in someones pocket?

You bank details can be read with a set of eyes too so why not post your
online login for us?

B2003

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 16:58:23 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
Happens all the time at foreign hotel desks. The information isn't
secret - if you are relying this, please be advised that "security by
obscurity" is a very bad policy.

Hotels check your passport to make sure its you but I don't remember
any of them photocopying my details.

Not necessarily. The point is it doesn't have to be in contact which the
reader. Someone could brush past you

Goalposts "few metres" zooom "brush past"

Not really. The point is it can be done without you knowing about it.

even with a low powered reader and still grab the info. Its been done
with Oyster cards so it could be done with passports.

Breaking the encryption?

According to the wikipedia page it seems they're getting there.

And you don't even need to break the encryption , just clone the data bit
for bit. And thats been done.

B2003


I've had my passport photocopied on numerous occasions. Not just at hotels
but when entering certain establishments. In fact one or two places have
insisted in holding my passport whilst I'm in the building. Do I like it?
No. Do I accept it? I have to if I'm going to do my job. It helps that
the places that have done it are (in my estimation) reputable. And, no,
they are not military or government.

In message , d
writes

Hotels check your passport to make sure its you but I don't remember
any of them photocopying my details.

It was certainly the case in Italy until recently (and might still be
the case) that the hotel had to hand over passports to the police each
night. They were returned the next day, but it's anybody's guess what
was copied in the interim.
--
Paul Terry

In message , at 19:36:11 on Fri, 19 Mar
2010, d remarked:

Happens all the time at foreign hotel desks. The information isn't
secret - if you are relying this, please be advised that "security by
obscurity" is a very bad policy.

Hotels check your passport to make sure its you but I don't remember
any of them photocopying my details.

No. They copy down many of the details. Some do photocopy them as well.

Not necessarily. The point is it doesn't have to be in contact which the
reader. Someone could brush past you

Goalposts "few metres" zooom "brush past"

Not really. The point is it can be done without you knowing about it.

So someone can steal public information from me, that's encrypted. Wow.

even with a low powered reader and still grab the info. Its been done
with Oyster cards so it could be done with passports.

Breaking the encryption?

According to the wikipedia page it seems they're getting there.

Yawn

And you don't even need to break the encryption , just clone the data bit
for bit. And thats been done.

If that's the attack I think you may be referring to, it was ID cards,
and also not quite the attack that superficial reading suggests.
--
Roland Perry

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 17:28:18 -0000
"tim...." wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 10:33:29 -0000
"tim...." wrote:
At any of the London Airports IME it is now very rare to queue for less
than
20 minutes at immigration, though they are introducing machines which
let
you avoid this queue if you have a "chip"" passport.

Ah yes , arn't they wonderful? All your details stored on it unencrypted
which
can be read from a few metres away with the right machine.

As they are the same details that can be read with a set of eyes, why is
this a problem?

How many eyes do you know that have x-ray vision and can read the passport
when its in someones pocket?

NO, but plenty of people get to see it open


You bank details can be read with a set of eyes too so why not post your
online login for us?

since when has my online online login been readable by a pair of eyes?

tim

Paul Terry wrote:
I'm not sure where Cambridge came into the plan, but if that is the
final destination I'd take the direct coach service from Heathrow to
Cambridge (I think it's National Express 727). It would be more
convenient and probably quicker than going into the centre of London.
Services are once an hour until after 2300, and then once every two
hours after that.

Yes, that's the backup plan. I'm just gambling on whether I should buy some
NX 'funfares' on the Victoria route, which work out a lot cheaper (last time
was 5 pounds per person Heathrow to Cambridge not 30 pounds) than the direct
bus. It's not a lot slower either to go via Victoria (since the Heathrow
bus often detours via Luton or Stansted).

I suspect that, budgeting 30 mins for flight delays, 2 hours from touchdown
to VCS is too tight though.

The TfL planner suggests, instead of the walk from Victoria tube to VCS,
alighting at Sloane Square and taking the C1 or the 211 bus. How fragile is
this likely to be late at night?

Theo