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Yellow front panels
"Graham Harrison" wrote in message ... If trains on the national network need yellow front panels why doesn't the same apply to LUL? It has been suggested previously it is because LU do not normally allow maintenance staff access to the live railway. You may have noticed LU's battery maintenance locos do have yellow panels... [uk.transport.london added] Paul S |
Yellow front panels
On Apr 19, 11:50*pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote: It has been suggested previously it is because LU do not normally allow maintenance staff access to the live railway. Though I imagine red is almost as visible. Several European railways including SBB, OeBB and DB use it. Neil |
Yellow front panels
"Paul Scott" wrote in message
"Graham Harrison" wrote in message ... If trains on the national network need yellow front panels why doesn't the same apply to LUL? It has been suggested previously it is because LU do not normally allow maintenance staff access to the live railway. You may have noticed LU's battery maintenance locos do have yellow panels... Talking of which, I came across this YouTube video of an unusual rail tour, with LU battery locos topping and tailing Mk2 Gatwick Express stock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpibombER74 |
Yellow front panels
On Apr 19, 10:50*pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote: If trains on the national network need yellow front panels why doesn't the same apply to LUL? It has been suggested previously it is because LU do not normally allow maintenance staff access to the live railway. LU does allow access but only for emergency faults. No routine maintenance on track is done in Traffic Hours. You may have noticed LU's battery maintenance locos do have yellow panels.... Chickens and eggs? The choice of yellow may have been influenced by the need to operate over NR tracks, and not just the obvious tube routes, but occasionally, in the past, on other jobs. -- Nick |
Yellow front panels
On 20 Apr., 11:12, D7666 wrote:
You may have noticed LU's battery maintenance locos do have yellow panels... Chickens and eggs? The choice of yellow may have been influenced by the need to operate over NR tracks, and not just the obvious tube routes, but occasionally, in the past, on other jobs. LU service trains have traditionally been yellow, not just on the front ends but all over. See for example the tunnel cleaning train. |
Yellow front panels
On 20 Apr, 09:41, Pat Ricroft wrote:
On 19 Apr, 22:50, "Paul Scott" wrote: "Graham Harrison" wrote in message ... If trains on the national network need yellow front panels why doesn't the same apply to LUL? It has been suggested previously it is because LU do not normally allow maintenance staff access to the live railway. You may have noticed LU's battery maintenance locos do have yellow panels... So why don't the Bakerloo Line trains have yellow panels for working over Network Rail lines to Harrow and Wealdstone? IIRC, the tracks are LUL (or whatever), and Network Rail trains run over them. ISTR a NR/LUL boundary marker on my Baker. Clarification, anyone? Andy |
Yellow front panels
On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 03:51:01 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be Andy
Elms wrote this:- So why don't the Bakerloo Line trains have yellow panels for working over Network Rail lines to Harrow and Wealdstone? IIRC, the tracks are LUL (or whatever), and Network Rail trains run over them. ISTR a NR/LUL boundary marker on my Baker. Unless it was one of the changes made around the time of privatisation, no. However, it may have been one of the changes at privatisation. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000...#pt3-pb3-l1g54 |
Yellow front panels
"Andy Elms" wrote in message ... On 20 Apr, 09:41, Pat Ricroft wrote: So why don't the Bakerloo Line trains have yellow panels for working over Network Rail lines to Harrow and Wealdstone? IIRC, the tracks are LUL (or whatever), and Network Rail trains run over them. ISTR a NR/LUL boundary marker on my Baker. The current Quail map shows the LU/NR boundary at the west end of the Queens Park sheds - basically where the Bakerloo trains join the London Overground route. I don't think there have been any recent changes at all. Paul S |
Yellow front panels
"David Hansen" wrote in message ... On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 03:51:01 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be Andy Elms wrote this:- So why don't the Bakerloo Line trains have yellow panels for working over Network Rail lines to Harrow and Wealdstone? IIRC, the tracks are LUL (or whatever), and Network Rail trains run over them. ISTR a NR/LUL boundary marker on my Baker. Unless it was one of the changes made around the time of privatisation, no. However, it may have been one of the changes at privatisation. AIUI, of the jointly used lines, Queens Park to Harrow & Wealdstone, East Putney to Wimbledon, and Gunnersbury to Richmond are Network Rail lines, while Harrow South Junction to Amersham is LUL, Peter |
Yellow front panels
Neil Williams wrote:
On Apr 19, 11:50 pm, "Paul Scott" wrote: It has been suggested previously it is because LU do not normally allow maintenance staff access to the live railway. Though I imagine red is almost as visible. Several European railways including SBB, OeBB and DB use it. I think the problem with red in the UK would be that red/orange is the colour of staff vis vests, and at a distance a fast approaching train might be mistaken for a person in the distance wearing a vis vest. Rgds Denis McMahon |
Yellow front panels
On 20 Apr, 12:49, "Peter Masson" wrote:
AIUI, of the jointly used lines, Queens Park to Harrow & Wealdstone, East Putney to Wimbledon, and Gunnersbury to Richmond are Network Rail lines, while Harrow South Junction to Amersham is LUL, As I understand it, the Wimbledon bit is now LU, though signalled by NR (presumably this will change whenever Wimbledon needs to be resignalled). PhilD -- |
Yellow front panels
On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 05:41:17 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be PhilD
wrote this:- AIUI, of the jointly used lines, Queens Park to Harrow & Wealdstone, East Putney to Wimbledon, and Gunnersbury to Richmond are Network Rail lines, while Harrow South Junction to Amersham is LUL, As I understand it, the Wimbledon bit is now LU, though signalled by NR That is my understanding too. They also presumably supply traction power too. No idea about the other bits. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000...#pt3-pb3-l1g54 |
Yellow front panels
On Apr 20, 10:31*am, amogles wrote:
On 20 Apr., 11:12, D7666 wrote: You may have noticed LU's battery maintenance locos do have yellow panels... Chickens and eggs? The choice of yellow may have been influenced by the need to operate over NR tracks, and not just the obvious tube routes, but occasionally, in the past, on other jobs. LU service trains have traditionally been yellow, not just on the front ends but all over. See for example the tunnel cleaning train. I dispute that. They were traditonally maroon or grey or green. Yellow is relatively new, I'd be 99% sure they never used yellow until well after BR started. DL81 -83 came to Lu in ?1969 ? 1970 ? and they were green not a shade of a yellow panel on them. Yes, some have been yellow for a long time now, but ''traditional'' no. -- Nick |
Yellow front panels
On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 11:46:13 -0700 (PDT), D7666
wrote: On Apr 20, 10:31*am, amogles wrote: On 20 Apr., 11:12, D7666 wrote: You may have noticed LU's battery maintenance locos do have yellow panels... LU service trains have traditionally been yellow, not just on the front ends but all over. See for example the tunnel cleaning train. I dispute that. They were traditonally maroon or grey or green. Yellow is relatively new, I'd be 99% sure they never used yellow until well after BR started. DL81 -83 came to Lu in ?1969 ? 1970 ? and they were green not a shade of a yellow panel on them. The battery Locos have recently been mentioned on a North American model group as a counter claim to a Magazine description which reckons that the battery Loco has just been invented over there. The Wikipedia link I read from there has an unverified claim that the maroon colour was using paint from the Steam fleet. Not sure if they mean there was surplus paint or that the colour was chosen to match. G.Harman |
Yellow front panels
On 20/04/2010 13:41, PhilD wrote:
On 20 Apr, 12:49, "Peter wrote: AIUI, of the jointly used lines, Queens Park to Harrow& Wealdstone, East Putney to Wimbledon, and Gunnersbury to Richmond are Network Rail lines, while Harrow South Junction to Amersham is LUL, As I understand it, the Wimbledon bit is now LU, though signalled by NR (presumably this will change whenever Wimbledon needs to be resignalled). PhilD -- NR trains don't normally run from Putney to Wimbledon, though. Don't they? IIRC, NR trains went through there on occasion just to facilitate placing rolling stock in position. |
Yellow front panels
On Apr 20, 9:54*pm, "
wrote: NR trains don't normally run from Putney to Wimbledon, though. Don't they? IIRC, NR trains went through there on occasion just to facilitate placing rolling stock in position. There's a couple of odd-hours Waterloo-Wimbledon (and beyond, and vice versa) services routed via Point Pleasant Junction/East Putney. The line is also used for ECS moves, diversionary moves, and for access to/ from Wimbledon depot. PhilD -- |
Yellow front panels
On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 17:59:48 +0100, David Hansen
wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 05:41:17 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be PhilD wrote this:- AIUI, of the jointly used lines, Queens Park to Harrow & Wealdstone, East Putney to Wimbledon, and Gunnersbury to Richmond are Network Rail lines, while Harrow South Junction to Amersham is LUL, As I understand it, the Wimbledon bit is now LU, though signalled by NR That is my understanding too. They also presumably supply traction power too. No idea about the other bits. ? IIRC the Wimbledon branch was transferred to LU on the same day as the Drain. |
Yellow front panels
On 20 Apr, 19:46, D7666 wrote:
On Apr 20, 10:31*am, amogles wrote: On 20 Apr., 11:12, D7666 wrote: You may have noticed LU's battery maintenance locos do have yellow panels... Chickens and eggs? The choice of yellow may have been influenced by the need to operate over NR tracks, and not just the obvious tube routes, but occasionally, in the past, on other jobs. LU service trains have traditionally been yellow, not just on the front ends but all over. See for example the tunnel cleaning train. I dispute that. They were traditonally maroon or grey or green. Yellow is relatively new, I'd be 99% sure they *never used yellow until well after BR started. DL81 -83 came to Lu in ?1969 ? 1970 ? and they were green not a shade of a yellow panel on them. Yes, some have been yellow for a long time now, but ''traditional'' no. -- Nick Here is one of their departmental vehicles, an Electic Sleet locomotive in Acton Works in 1981 in the marron livery http://tonyhunter2814.fotopic.net/p3144135.html Tony |
Yellow front panels
"Charles Ellson" wrote in message ... IIRC the Wimbledon branch was transferred to LU on the same day as the Drain. I'd suggest ownership is basically all that was transferred. The power supplies and signalling are still effectively 'subcontracted' to NR. I mentioned a few days ago that there is a project underway to separate the power supplies to allow the NR voltage to be increased, and regenerative braking to be enabled. You'd have to assume SSR resignalling might take the signalling inhouse as well, eventually. Paul S |
Yellow front panels
PhilD wrote:
On Apr 20, 9:54 pm, " wrote: NR trains don't normally run from Putney to Wimbledon, though. Don't they? IIRC, NR trains went through there on occasion just to facilitate placing rolling stock in position. There's a couple of odd-hours Waterloo-Wimbledon (and beyond, and vice versa) services routed via Point Pleasant Junction/East Putney. The line is also used for ECS moves, diversionary moves, and for access to/ from Wimbledon depot. AFAICT there are 3 passenger services, and about 10 ECS moves in the diagrams for a normal weekday, which is more than I expected. I think there are 4 or 5 down direction ECS moves after the morning peak, so I imagine daytime travellers on the District will be familiar with the main line trains passing through. Passenger services for those interested: 0454 Basingstoke to Waterloo 0042 (FX) Waterloo to Strawberry Hill 0105 Waterloo to Southampton Paul S |
Yellow front panels
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Yellow front panels
On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 09:50:22AM +0100, Recliner wrote:
Talking of which, I came across this YouTube video of an unusual rail tour, with LU battery locos topping and tailing Mk2 Gatwick Express stock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpibombER74 Wow! Do you know if that tour included any of the cut n cover sections? Or are mk 2s too fat to fit? -- David Cantrell | Official London Perl Mongers Bad Influence Godliness is next to Englishness |
Yellow front panels
"David Cantrell" wrote in message
k On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 09:50:22AM +0100, Recliner wrote: Talking of which, I came across this YouTube video of an unusual rail tour, with LU battery locos topping and tailing Mk2 Gatwick Express stock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpibombER74 Wow! Do you know if that tour included any of the cut n cover sections? Or are mk 2s too fat to fit? I don't know about that tour, but I think there have been others that have taken old BR stock through the sub-surface tunnels (doesn't LU own a few carriages?). Remember that A Stock is wider than most (all?) BR stock. |
Yellow front panels
"David Cantrell" wrote in message
k... On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 09:50:22AM +0100, Recliner wrote: Talking of which, I came across this YouTube video of an unusual rail tour, with LU battery locos topping and tailing Mk2 Gatwick Express stock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpibombER74 Wow! Do you know if that tour included any of the cut n cover sections? Or are mk 2s too fat to fit? ISTR the tour was something like Wimbledon to Wimbledon via Edgware Road and Tower Hill (maybe not in that order) so, yes. DAS |
Yellow front panels
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 02:34:55PM +0100, Recliner wrote:
"David Cantrell" wrote in message k On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 09:50:22AM +0100, Recliner wrote: Talking of which, I came across this YouTube video of an unusual rail tour, with LU battery locos topping and tailing Mk2 Gatwick Express stock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpibombER74 Wow! Do you know if that tour included any of the cut n cover sections? Or are mk 2s too fat to fit? I don't know about that tour, but I think there have been others that have taken old BR stock through the sub-surface tunnels (doesn't LU own a few carriages?). Remember that A Stock is wider than most (all?) BR stock. Ah, but BR stock is generally longer, so wouldn't be able to get round curves that the dinky little LUL trains can - mk2s are 19.6m, A stock is 16.something. -- David Cantrell | semi-evolved ape-thing "IMO, the primary historical significance of Unix is that it marks the time in computer history where CPUs became so cheap that it was possible to build an operating system without adult supervision." -- Russ Holsclaw in a.f.c |
Yellow front panels
"David Cantrell" wrote in message
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 02:34:55PM +0100, Recliner wrote: "David Cantrell" wrote in message k On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 09:50:22AM +0100, Recliner wrote: Talking of which, I came across this YouTube video of an unusual rail tour, with LU battery locos topping and tailing Mk2 Gatwick Express stock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpibombER74 Wow! Do you know if that tour included any of the cut n cover sections? Or are mk 2s too fat to fit? I don't know about that tour, but I think there have been others that have taken old BR stock through the sub-surface tunnels (doesn't LU own a few carriages?). Remember that A Stock is wider than most (all?) BR stock. Ah, but BR stock is generally longer, so wouldn't be able to get round curves that the dinky little LUL trains can - mk2s are 19.6m, A stock is 16.something. Yes, good point -- some parts of the Circle line would probably be prohibited for that reason. |
Yellow front panels
On 22/04/2010 00:30, David A Stocks wrote:
"David Cantrell" wrote in message k... On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 09:50:22AM +0100, Recliner wrote: Talking of which, I came across this YouTube video of an unusual rail tour, with LU battery locos topping and tailing Mk2 Gatwick Express stock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpibombER74 Wow! Do you know if that tour included any of the cut n cover sections? Or are mk 2s too fat to fit? ISTR the tour was something like Wimbledon to Wimbledon via Edgware Road and Tower Hill (maybe not in that order) so, yes. DAS I wonder if there will be any more Vickers-hauled rail tours on the Metropolitan line. |
Yellow front panels
Hello!
On 20.04.2010 08:31, Neil Williams wrote: On Apr 19, 11:50 pm, "Paul wrote: It has been suggested previously it is because LU do not normally allow maintenance staff access to the live railway. Though I imagine red is almost as visible. Several European railways including SBB, OeBB and DB use it. AFAIK, the only networks on the continent requiring a specific front end color are the Netherlands (white or yellow) and Italy (red). In Germany, you are free to run completely black locos such as http://www.railcolor.net/index.php?n...age&position=7 Johannes. |
Yellow front panels
On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 20:02:17 +0200, Johannes Picht
wrote: AFAIK, the only networks on the continent requiring a specific front end color are the Netherlands (white or yellow) and Italy (red). In Germany, you are free to run completely black locos such as In the UK, black is permitted (and usual) for steam locomotives. I assume that's because of grandfather rights, but perhaps also because you'd hear them a mile off anyway! Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK To reply put my first name before the at. |
Yellow front panels
On 29 Apr, 21:35, Neil Williams
wrote: On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 20:02:17 +0200, Johannes Picht wrote: AFAIK, the only networks on the continent requiring a specific front end color are the Netherlands (white or yellow) and Italy (red). In Germany, you are free to run completely black locos such as In the UK, black is permitted (and usual) for steam locomotives. *I assume that's because of grandfather rights, but perhaps also because you'd hear them a mile off anyway! Neil I was going to suggest that steam locos usually had/have red buffer beams ... but then I remembered that the LNER A4 streamliners don't. |
Yellow front panels
On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 22:35:38 +0200, Neil Williams
wrote: On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 20:02:17 +0200, Johannes Picht wrote: AFAIK, the only networks on the continent requiring a specific front end color are the Netherlands (white or yellow) and Italy (red). In Germany, you are free to run completely black locos such as In the UK, black is permitted (and usual) for steam locomotives. I assume that's because of grandfather rights, but perhaps also because you'd hear them a mile off anyway! Don't they also carry headlights now ? |
Yellow front panels
On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 23:53:58 +0100, Charles Ellson
wrote: Don't they also carry headlights now ? I think so - but so do modern trains, and they need yellow ends as well... Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK To reply put my first name before the at. |
Yellow front panels
Neil Williams wrote:
On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 20:02:17 +0200, Johannes Picht wrote: AFAIK, the only networks on the continent requiring a specific front end color are the Netherlands (white or yellow) and Italy (red). In Germany, you are free to run completely black locos such as In the UK, black is permitted (and usual) for steam locomotives. I assume that's because of grandfather rights, but perhaps also because you'd hear them a mile off anyway! Red, shurely. But the stuff coming out of the chimney is a visual clue too. Indeed, as a first order approximation, I've always assumed that the yellow end is a replacement for the plume of smoke/steam. -- http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9632978.html (43 154 at Reading, 13 Jul 1999) |
Yellow front panels
On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 16:23:04 +0100, Chris Tolley
(ukonline really) wrote: Neil Williams wrote: On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 20:02:17 +0200, Johannes Picht wrote: AFAIK, the only networks on the continent requiring a specific front end color are the Netherlands (white or yellow) and Italy (red). In the UK, black is permitted (and usual) for steam locomotives. I assume that's because of grandfather rights, but perhaps also because you'd hear them a mile off anyway! Red, shurely. But the stuff coming out of the chimney is a visual clue too. Indeed, as a first order approximation, I've always assumed that the yellow end is a replacement for the plume of smoke/steam. But I am fairly sure that in some situations a Steam loco will be emitting little smoke or steam. Going down a gradient with the fire burning cleanly the exhaust can be fairly transparent And that will be just the time that little noise is produced either. G.Harman |
Yellow front panels
I have a copy of the 1985(?) "Motive Power Recognition: London
Transport and PTE railways", and there do seem to be a number of yellow painted service vehicles (at least they look yellow despite being black and white photos!). Some do seem to be darker (maroon?) however, maybe they were the older ones? |
Yellow front panels
On May 1, 8:42*pm, Chris Tolley (ukonline
really) wrote: On those days when I am out watching the Pendolinos go by, I am constantly impressed by how quiet they are. Really ? I think they are noisy for what they are, this is from the outside. They make far more noise passing by than 350s do. -- Nick |
Yellow front panels
Anyway, what I really come on to post was this
http://www.railcolor.net/index.php?n...act ion=image yes its French - to the unintiated that a Prima, the current Alstom BoBo electric - and that one is hired through an SNCF associated leasing outfit called AKIEM to ECR that in turn was owned by EWS hence now DBS. Perhaps the yellow panels herald operation into UK :o) Cue comment totally ignoring I am on a wind up and going on about that is not allowed in the tunnel because it is not fitted with this that and the other, none of which are blocking points because IMHO the thing could be modfied. -- Nick |
Yellow front panels
The message
from D7666 contains these words: I think they are noisy for what they are, this is from the outside. They make far more noise passing by than 350s do. It seems to depend on where you are when they go past you. At Acton Bridge they're both very noisy when running through at normal speed (90-ish for the 350 and 120-ish for the Pendo. It also depends on how many wheel-flats each individual train has... -- Dave, Frodsham http://dave-jackson.fotopic.net |
Yellow front panels
On Wed, 19 May 2010 11:53:14 -0700 (PDT), D7666
wrote: On May 1, 8:42*pm, Chris Tolley (ukonline really) wrote: On those days when I am out watching the Pendolinos go by, I am constantly impressed by how quiet they are. Really ? I think they are noisy for what they are, this is from the outside. They make far more noise passing by than 350s do. They are very quiet compared to, say, Eurostars. |
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