In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at
13:07:05 on Sat, 26 Feb 2011, remarked:

A very good question. I suspect they'll have a slogan like "Travel
on the tube with Mastercard, if everyone in your party has one; For
everything else, there's Oyster".

Children with credit/debit cards? Doesn't sound likely to me.

Whoosh! (They are the "everything else".)

So, the advantage for casual users of not needing to get Oyster for their
occasional visit to London because they can use paywave disappears if they
have children with them. Terrific!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message , at 20:20:00
on Sat, 26 Feb 2011, remarked:
A very good question. I suspect they'll have a slogan like "Travel
on the tube with Mastercard, if everyone in your party has one; For
everything else, there's Oyster".

Children with credit/debit cards? Doesn't sound likely to me.

Whoosh! (They are the "everything else".)

So, the advantage for casual users of not needing to get Oyster for their
occasional visit to London because they can use paywave disappears if they
have children with them. Terrific!

I'm not sure how you could implement a "one-wave many-people" system.

It's marginally better than being stuck with a one-system proprietary
card (ie Oyster), but raises the stakes such that international road
warriors will need a pay-wave card in their armoury.

I wonder if a bank issuing an internationally-enabled pay-wave card will
be able to resist the temptation of adding a hefty "foreign transaction
charge" every time it's used. If you are stuck at the airport and need
to get to the hotel, it's likely to be cheaper than a taxi, but for
regular journeys the cost soon adds up.

--
Roland Perry

On Feb 27, 2:20*am, wrote:
[snip]
So, the advantage for casual users of not needing to get Oyster for their
occasional visit to London because they can use paywave disappears if they
have children with them. Terrific!

Why do you make the assumption that accompanied children would be
dealt with any differently when an adult is travelling using a 'pay
and wave' card compared to when that adult is using an Oyster card?

In message
, at
03:27:09 on Sun, 27 Feb 2011, Mizter T remarked:
Why do you make the assumption that accompanied children would be
dealt with any differently when an adult is travelling using a 'pay
and wave' card compared to when that adult is using an Oyster card?

For one thing, today you can't use an Oyster Card for a group, but you
can use a Credit Card (by buying several tickets at once).
--
Roland Perry

On Feb 27, 11:35*am, Roland Perry wrote:

In message
, at
03:27:09 on Sun, 27 Feb 2011, Mizter T remarked:

Why do you make the assumption that accompanied children would be
dealt with any differently when an adult is travelling using a 'pay
and wave' card compared to when that adult is using an Oyster card?

For one thing, today you can't use an Oyster Card for a group, but you
can use a Credit Card (by buying several tickets at once).

That's not what I was getting at. Children aged 5-10 travel free on
the Tube, DLR and LO "if travelling with an adult who has a valid
ticket, Freedom Pass or Veterans photocard or who is using pay as you
go" - that covers up to four children per adult - see:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14554.aspx
(Children under 5 travel for free too, but they're dealt with
separately as they have to be accompanied by an adult.)

I don't see any reason to imagine why this free travel for accompanied
children up to the age of 10 (inclusive) would be any different if the
adult was travelling using a 'pay and wave' credit/debit card instead
of an Oyster card.

In article
,
(Mizter T) wrote:

On Feb 27, 11:35*am, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
,
at 03:27:09 on Sun, 27 Feb 2011, Mizter T
remarked:

Why do you make the assumption that accompanied children would be
dealt with any differently when an adult is travelling using a 'pay
and wave' card compared to when that adult is using an Oyster card?

For one thing, today you can't use an Oyster Card for a group, but you
can use a Credit Card (by buying several tickets at once).

That's not what I was getting at. Children aged 5-10 travel free on
the Tube, DLR and LO "if travelling with an adult who has a valid
ticket, Freedom Pass or Veterans photocard or who is using pay as you
go" - that covers up to four children per adult - see:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14554.aspx
(Children under 5 travel for free too, but they're dealt with
separately as they have to be accompanied by an adult.)

I don't see any reason to imagine why this free travel for accompanied
children up to the age of 10 (inclusive) would be any different if the
adult was travelling using a 'pay and wave' credit/debit card instead
of an Oyster card.

What about 11-15 year olds? How many of them have cards?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote:

(Mizter T) wrote:

That's not what I was getting at. Children aged 5-10 travel free on
the Tube, DLR and LO "if travelling with an adult who has a valid
ticket, Freedom Pass or Veterans photocard or who is using pay as you
go" - that covers up to four children per adult - see:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14554.aspx
(Children under 5 travel for free too, but they're dealt with
separately as they have to be accompanied by an adult.)

I don't see any reason to imagine why this free travel for accompanied
children up to the age of 10 (inclusive) would be any different if the
adult was travelling using a 'pay and wave' credit/debit card instead
of an Oyster card.

What about 11-15 year olds? How many of them have cards?

Do you mean debit/credit cards? Well, more have them than they once would
have, but as discussed elsewhere this 'pay and wave' fare payment facility
just isn't going to encompass child fares as well, it wouldn't be workable.
11-15 year olds therefore are going to need a ticket of some sort, just as
they do at present.

A question for you Colin - do you think the fact that this upcoming 'pay and
wave' facility isn't going to accommodate for an adult travelling with 11-15
year old children, without those children holding separate tickets,
inherently mean the whole idea is invalid - regardless of the number of
other people who would benefit from it?

In article ,
(Mizter T) wrote:

wrote:

(Mizter T) wrote:

That's not what I was getting at. Children aged 5-10 travel free on
the Tube, DLR and LO "if travelling with an adult who has a valid
ticket, Freedom Pass or Veterans photocard or who is using pay as you
go" - that covers up to four children per adult - see:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14554.aspx
(Children under 5 travel for free too, but they're dealt with
separately as they have to be accompanied by an adult.)

I don't see any reason to imagine why this free travel for
accompanied children up to the age of 10 (inclusive) would be any
different if the adult was travelling using a 'pay and wave'
credit/debit card instead of an Oyster card.

What about 11-15 year olds? How many of them have cards?

Do you mean debit/credit cards?

Yes, I couldn't think of a better generic term than "cards" other than
"plastic" which I thought too slang-like.

Well, more have them than they once
would have, but as discussed elsewhere this 'pay and wave' fare
payment facility just isn't going to encompass child fares as well,
it wouldn't be workable. 11-15 year olds therefore are going to
need a ticket of some sort, just as they do at present.

A question for you Colin - do you think the fact that this upcoming
'pay and wave' facility isn't going to accommodate for an adult
travelling with 11-15 year old children, without those children
holding separate tickets, inherently mean the whole idea is invalid
- regardless of the number of other people who would benefit from it?

I think that the present system strongly tends to rip off visitors from
outside London (and completely casual users from inside London but I doubt
there are many of them). It's all part of the general problem in public
transport that it is often hard work to use the systems if you are not a
regular customer.

I thought Paywave was supposed to level things up a bit but it continues
the horrendous treatment of non-London children over the age of 10 who get
charged full fares and have a lot more hassle getting any tickets unless
they get day Travelcards from their stations of origin outside London (so
no use for overnight stays).

It's the same for me if I stay overnight, or would be if I didn't use my
bike as I will tomorrow/Wednesday. All the ticketing integration that
Capitalcards brought in is being slowly eroded.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message ,
writes

So, the advantage for casual users of not needing to get Oyster for their
occasional visit to London because they can use paywave disappears if they
have children with them. Terrific!

I imagine a lot of the early users will be tourists from other parts of
the UK and other countries. When visiting another large city I find
it's often quite hard to fathom out their equivalent of oyster works and
than actually buy one (and maybe recover one's deposit when leaving).

If visitors could just swipe a regular credit card it would save them a
lot of trouble, and still be cheaper than paying a large number of
single fares at inflated cash rates. Such customers might be willing to
forgive the other limitations, e.g. no capping or loading of railcards.


--
Clive Page

"Clive Page" wrote in message
...

If visitors could just swipe a regular credit card it would save them a
lot of trouble, and still be cheaper than paying a large number of single
fares at inflated cash rates. Such customers might be willing to forgive
the other limitations, e.g. no capping or loading of railcards.

If you read the whole thread, capping is presumed workable, as charging will
only be done on an 'end of the day' basis.

OTOH railcards don't seem to have been discussed at length yet...

Paul S