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East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
The extension of the ELL 'round the corner' from Dalston Junction to
Highbury & Islington (via Canonbury) has opened for public service today - see: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/15397.aspx The LDB for H&I is now showing trains to West Croydon and Crystal Palace: http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/en/s/ldbboard/dep/HHY I wanted to say something pithy about this further establishing the line as part of the urban fabric of London or some such, but failed to come up with a sentence that didn't sound trite - so I'll just say this is a good thing, and will help the line become more relevant and more useful to more people. |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 11:49:09 -0000
"Mizter T" wrote: The extension of the ELL 'round the corner' from Dalston Junction to Highbury & Islington (via Canonbury) has opened for public service today - see: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/15397.aspx The LDB for H&I is now showing trains to West Croydon and Crystal Palace: http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/en/s/ldbboard/dep/HHY I wanted to say something pithy about this further establishing the line as part of the urban fabric of London or some such, but failed to come up with a sentence that didn't sound trite - so I'll just say this is a good thing, and will help the line become more relevant and more useful to more people. It'll be interesting to see who uses it most - people who work near Liverpool street or Docklands workers using it to cut out the central london part of their journey. Pity they couldn't take it all the way to Finsbury Park. B2003 |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
On Feb 28, 11:49*am, "Mizter T" wrote:
The extension of the ELL 'round the corner' from Dalston Junction to Highbury & Islington (via Canonbury) has opened for public service today - see: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/15397.aspx The LDB for H&I is now showing trains to West Croydon and Crystal Palace: http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/en/s/ldbboard/dep/HHY I wanted to say something pithy about this further establishing the line as part of the urban fabric of London or some such, but failed to come up with a sentence that didn't sound trite - so I'll just say this is a good thing, and will help the line become more relevant and more useful to more people. Thank you for sharing. I will try to visit the route just as soon as I can. And, IMHO, it is excellent thing. |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
Mizter T wrote:
I wanted to say something pithy about this further establishing the line as part of the urban fabric of London or some such, but failed to come up with a sentence that didn't sound trite - so I'll just say this is a good thing, and will help the line become more relevant and more useful to more people. I'll buy that. The line serves some interesting parts of the Metropolis, and improving the connectivity at the northern end will benefit folk there and further afield. -- http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9633046.html (47 539 at Shrewsbury, Aug 1982) |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
On Feb 28, 11:52*am, wrote:
On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 11:49:09 -0000 "Mizter T" wrote: The extension of the ELL 'round the corner' from Dalston Junction to Highbury & Islington (via Canonbury) has opened for public service today - see: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/15397.aspx The LDB for H&I is now showing trains to West Croydon and Crystal Palace: http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/en/s/ldbboard/dep/HHY I wanted to say something pithy about this further establishing the line as part of the urban fabric of London or some such, but failed to come up with a sentence that didn't sound trite - so I'll just say this is a good thing, and will help the line become more relevant and more useful to more people. It'll be interesting to see who uses it most - people who work near Liverpool street or Docklands workers using it to cut out the central london part of their journey. Pity they couldn't take it all the way to Finsbury Park. Or Camden Road, or Primrose Hill. Still I am glad it has reached H&I. |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
"Mizter T" wrote in message
... The extension of the ELL 'round the corner' from Dalston Junction to Highbury & Islington (via Canonbury) has opened for public service today - see: Meanwhile they've amended another page incorrectly, (repeating an error from a few weeks ago?) about a 5 min frequency on the extension: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/proj...mes/15360.aspx As discussed previously, arrivals and departures at Dalston Junction show a short dwell in the platform there, to make the trains on the extension run at regular intervals. Paul |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
On Feb 28, 11:58*am, 1506 wrote:
On Feb 28, 11:52*am, wrote: On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 11:49:09 -0000 "Mizter T" wrote: The extension of the ELL 'round the corner' from Dalston Junction to Highbury & Islington (via Canonbury) has opened for public service today - see: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/15397.aspx The LDB for H&I is now showing trains to West Croydon and Crystal Palace: http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/en/s/ldbboard/dep/HHY I wanted to say something pithy about this further establishing the line as part of the urban fabric of London or some such, but failed to come up with a sentence that didn't sound trite - so I'll just say this is a good thing, and will help the line become more relevant and more useful to more people. It'll be interesting to see who uses it most - people who work near Liverpool street or Docklands workers using it to cut out the central london part of their journey. Pity they couldn't take it all the way to Finsbury Park. Or Camden Road, or Primrose Hill. *Still I am glad it has reached H&I.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I'd find a service on the East curve to Hackney or Stratford useful, but that's not likely to happen. |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 03:58:55 -0800 (PST)
1506 wrote: Pity they couldn't take it all the way to Finsbury Park. Or Camden Road, or Primrose Hill. Still I am glad it has reached H&I. But to get to those stations you just walk across the platform to the NLL. To get to finsbury park and all the services there everyone will have to go underground and pile on to either the victoria line or the FCC moorgate line for the short hop. My guess is that there are going to be a lot of extra journeys on the victoria line from finsbury to highbury now and back and the line is pretty packed already on this section in the rush hour. B2003 |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
In article ,
"Mizter T" wrote: I wanted to say something pithy about this further establishing the line as part of the urban fabric of London or some such, but failed to come up with a sentence that didn't sound trite - so I'll just say this is a good thing, and will help the line become more relevant and more useful to more people. Boris of course was there to claim credit and take the pith: "We are piecing together a rail version of the M25 in the capital, an orbital rail link that is making it vastly easier for millions of Londoners to whizz from one side of the city to another." He's a whizz kid alright. E. |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
"eastender" wrote: In article , "Mizter T" wrote: I wanted to say something pithy about this further establishing the line as part of the urban fabric of London or some such, but failed to come up with a sentence that didn't sound trite - so I'll just say this is a good thing, and will help the line become more relevant and more useful to more people. Boris of course was there to claim credit and take the pith: "We are piecing together a rail version of the M25 in the capital, an orbital rail link that is making it vastly easier for millions of Londoners to whizz from one side of the city to another." He's a whizz kid alright. Whoever writes this tiresome guff could at least try a bit harder - if it's remotely akin to anything, then it's the North & South Circular roads - I s'pose referencing "the M25" is rather more succinct, but for anyone who expends the remotest degree of thought on it, it's also a totally duff comparison. If it was possible to ask the 2004 version of Boris if he had the vaguest clue about what the East London Line project might entail, it'd be interesting to hear his answer. |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
On 2011\02\28 13:11, Mizter T wrote:
If it was possible to ask the 2004 version of Boris if he had the vaguest clue about what the East London Line project might entail, it'd be interesting to hear his answer. Maybe he'd copy Diane Abbott's 2000 quote... "If I could do one single thing in the constituency it would be to build the Chelsea-Hackney Line. The Chelsea-Hackney Line is a long-planned extension of the Jubilee Line into Hackney. It would come all the way to Dalston. For the first time Stoke Newington would have an underground station. So you could travel from Dalston down the existing Jubilee Line all the way along a new extension that would take you to Chelsea." |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
"Basil Jet" wrote in message
On 2011\02\28 13:11, Mizter T wrote: If it was possible to ask the 2004 version of Boris if he had the vaguest clue about what the East London Line project might entail, it'd be interesting to hear his answer. Maybe he'd copy Diane Abbott's 2000 quote... "If I could do one single thing in the constituency it would be to build the Chelsea-Hackney Line. The Chelsea-Hackney Line is a long-planned extension of the Jubilee Line into Hackney. It would come all the way to Dalston. For the first time Stoke Newington would have an underground station. So you could travel from Dalston down the existing Jubilee Line all the way along a new extension that would take you to Chelsea." I don't remember any version of the Chelney line being an extension to the Jubilee line. Was she just confused, or am I missing something. Incidentally, I believe she doesn't drive, so will probably be a user of the extended ELL. |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
In article ,
Basil Jet wrote: Maybe he'd copy Diane Abbott's 2000 quote... "If I could do one single thing in the constituency it would be to build the Chelsea-Hackney Line. The Chelsea-Hackney Line is a long-planned extension of the Jubilee Line into Hackney. It would come all the way to Dalston. For the first time Stoke Newington would have an underground station. So you could travel from Dalston down the existing Jubilee Line all the way along a new extension that would take you to Chelsea." Diane Abbott was always upwardly mobile in the direction of Chelsea. I doubt many of her constituents would be as welcome. E. |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
"Basil Jet" wrote: On 2011\02\28 13:11, Mizter T wrote: If it was possible to ask the 2004 version of Boris if he had the vaguest clue about what the East London Line project might entail, it'd be interesting to hear his answer. Maybe he'd copy Diane Abbott's 2000 quote... "If I could do one single thing in the constituency it would be to build the Chelsea-Hackney Line. The Chelsea-Hackney Line is a long-planned extension of the Jubilee Line into Hackney. It would come all the way to Dalston. For the first time Stoke Newington would have an underground station. So you could travel from Dalston down the existing Jubilee Line all the way along a new extension that would take you to Chelsea." Ouch! |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
On Feb 28, 11:52*am, wrote:
Pity they couldn't take it all the way to Finsbury Park. Seconded. With judicious use of the Hornsey area for turnback sidings, Krappy Rubsniff could become a handy little hub. Though you'd need to improve connections to the Vic line... AE |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
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East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
In article ,
"Tim Fenton" wrote: He sounds like the Dudley Moore character in "Monte Carlo Or Bust" ... "Oh whizz whizz, Sir!" He goes on: 'This relatively short stretch of track will link three sides of the city and mean people can scoot around the edges of the capital on fast, reliable rail connections without needing to head into central London." Whizz, scoot - what's next? Zoom I guess. E. |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
"eastender" wrote in message
In article , "Tim Fenton" wrote: He sounds like the Dudley Moore character in "Monte Carlo Or Bust" ... "Oh whizz whizz, Sir!" He goes on: 'This relatively short stretch of track will link three sides of the city and mean people can scoot around the edges of the capital on fast, reliable rail connections without needing to head into central London." I wonder why they get charged for Zone 1 then as they glide through Shoreditch? |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
In article ,
Paul Corfield wrote: Watching a clip from ITV local news the Mayor said the new link will allow people from Highbury to reach Stratford - err ........ ! He did throw in Shoreditch and Croydon too which is a bit more accurate. I've seen a note somewhere that trains starting at Highbury won't run to New Cross, only to New Cross Gate and beyond - you have to change to a train starting at Dalston for New Cross. Is this right and why? E. |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
On 2011\02\28 17:08, Paul Corfield wrote:
Watching a clip from ITV local news the Mayor said the new link will allow people from Highbury to reach Stratford - err ........ ! The shocking part of this is that he used to live about 250 metres from H&I. I'm guessing he's not a rail travel sort of guy. |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
"Basil Jet" wrote in message
On 2011\02\28 17:08, Paul Corfield wrote: Watching a clip from ITV local news the Mayor said the new link will allow people from Highbury to reach Stratford - err ........ ! The shocking part of this is that he used to live about 250 metres from H&I. I'm guessing he's not a rail travel sort of guy. Well even if he was, he'd think of Stratford as being on the end of the Overground line from H&I. It's only now that new destinations to the south have become available. |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
"Basil Jet" wrote: On 2011\02\28 17:08, Paul Corfield wrote: Watching a clip from ITV local news the Mayor said the new link will allow people from Highbury to reach Stratford - err ........ ! The shocking part of this is that he used to live about 250 metres from H&I. I'm guessing he's not a rail travel sort of guy. I think he did travel by tube at least a bit from H&I - however until recently I can imagine the North London Line being rather overlooked by the incurious as something of a terra incognita (and a rather unattractive proposition at that, until the TfL takeover), and I rather get the feeling that Mr Johnson didn't have a great deal of interest in or curiosity about the totality of the metropolis until say about five years ago. |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
On Feb 28, 5:24*pm, eastender wrote:
I've seen a note somewhere that trains starting at Highbury won't run to New Cross, only to New Cross Gate and beyond - you have to change to a train starting at Dalston for New Cross. Is this right and why? E. It would be difficult if not impossible to run the full ELL service using just two terminal platforms at H&I - hence the bays at Dalston. As people from H&I are much more likely to want trains along the West Croydon/Crystal Palace branch than New Cross, the fewest people are inconvenienced by having to change trains. Chris |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
As I did post about a month ago, it could be a good reason to start an enhanced service along the big tube between Moorgate and Finsbury Park including at weekends/ evenings. This would take the pressure off the Victoria Line between Finsbury Park and Highbury and Islingtpn, and if you are changing to other suburban services at FP its a lot better than climbing up that spriral staircase from the Underground platforms there. The line could be inrorporated back into the tube map too. |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
On Feb 28, 10:18*pm, Chris Sanderson wrote:
On Feb 28, 5:24*pm, eastender wrote: I've seen a note somewhere that trains starting at Highbury won't run to New Cross, only to New Cross Gate and beyond - you have to change to a train starting at Dalston for New Cross. Is this right and why? E. It would be difficult if not impossible to run the full ELL service using just two terminal platforms at H&I - hence the bays at Dalston. As people from H&I are much more likely to want trains along the West Croydon/Crystal Palace branch than New Cross, the fewest people are inconvenienced by having to change trains. Running a five minute frequency service using just two terminating platforms shouldn't really be a problem, several London Underground locations manage more than this (for example the Victoria line at Brixton). It is 'only' one train reversing every ten minutes in each platform. The problem comes with having to allow for delays in the services coming off the mainline through New Cross Gate, meaning that trains have to have longer to reverse than necessary to adsorb any delays. A way around this would be to have a flexible diagramming of units, so a late arriving service at Highbury & Islington has its departing service taken over by the next train available (with the destinations of the two trains swapped). This happens a fair amount on LU, where trains are often reformed to a different destination to deal with delays. |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
In message
, Andy writes Running a five minute frequency service using just two terminating platforms shouldn't really be a problem (snip) The problem comes with having to allow for delays in the services coming off the mainline through New Cross Gate Which will be exacerbated next year when the service becomes every four minutes, with trains feeding into Surrey Quays from Clapham Junction. -- Paul Terry |
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East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
On 2011\03\01 22:55, Robin9 wrote:
Does anyone know why they have not taken it through Canonbury tunnel to Finsbury Park? Lack of money or lack of understanding of London's public transport requirement? It looks at though some work is being done to facilitate trains through the tunnel again. I wasn't aware it closed... it was singled when the overhead went in, because there isn't room for double track with overhead. |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
On Mar 2, 2:49*pm, Basil Jet wrote:
On 2011\03\01 22:55, Robin9 wrote: Does anyone know why they have not taken it through Canonbury tunnel to Finsbury Park? Lack of money or lack of understanding of London's public transport requirement? Neither - or, I suppose "lack of money". It looks at though some work is being done to facilitate trains through the tunnel again. I wasn't aware it closed... it was singled when the overhead went in, because there isn't room for double track with overhead. Basil is right on this one. Also, note that the ELL tracks are the south pair on the four-track alignment between H&I and Dalston, while the Canonbury curve joins to the northernmost track of the alignment. So in order to run a regular ELL service to Finsbury Park, you'd need to build a dive-under allowing trains to access the Canonbury tunnel from the south (a flat junction forcing trains going towards Finsbury Park to cross all four tracks, and trains going towards Dalston to cross three, would destroy the NLR capacity and reliability enhancements and so couldn't be considered), at a cost of hundreds of millions of pounds. ELL services would then be dependent on a single-lead connection to a single-track line, itself linking into a massively busy mainline. Did someone say "performance pollution"? Or you could spend even more hundreds of millions of pounds on making the dive-under double-lead and on widening the tunnel. All this, to save three minutes going up the stairs and down the escalator...? -- John Band john at johnband dot org www.johnband.org |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
"Basil Jet" wrote in message
... On 2011\03\01 22:55, Robin9 wrote: Does anyone know why they have not taken it through Canonbury tunnel to Finsbury Park? Lack of money or lack of understanding of London's public transport requirement? It looks at though some work is being done to facilitate trains through the tunnel again. I wasn't aware it closed... it was singled when the overhead went in, because there isn't room for double track with overhead. There has been a recent short period of closure (certainly more than just a few months) while the NLL resignalling and track alterations were happening - but it was a part of their project timetable TTBOMK. Paul S |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
On Tue, 1 Mar 2011 21:17:15 -0800 (PST)
john b wrote: All this, to save three minutes going up the stairs and down the escalator...? Its not just that though , its the waiting for a victoria line train or FCC train to do the 1/2 stops to finsbury. If the ELL becomes popular as a way of skipping out central london then I suspect those lines will become seriously jammed in the rush hour. B2003 |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
On 02/03/2011 09:52, Paul Scott wrote:
"Basil Jet" wrote in message ... On 2011\03\01 22:55, Robin9 wrote: Does anyone know why they have not taken it through Canonbury tunnel to Finsbury Park? Lack of money or lack of understanding of London's public transport requirement? It looks at though some work is being done to facilitate trains through the tunnel again. I wasn't aware it closed... it was singled when the overhead went in, because there isn't room for double track with overhead. There has been a recent short period of closure (certainly more than just a few months) while the NLL resignalling and track alterations were happening - but it was a part of their project timetable TTBOMK. Paul S Were there at any point stations on between the Canonbury tunnel and Finsbury Park? |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
On Wed, 2 Mar 2011, Basil Jet wrote:
On 2011\03\01 22:55, Robin9 wrote: Does anyone know why they have not taken it through Canonbury tunnel to Finsbury Park? Lack of money or lack of understanding of London's public transport requirement? It looks at though some work is being done to facilitate trains through the tunnel again. I wasn't aware it closed... it was singled when the overhead went in, because there isn't room for double track with overhead. Specifically, i think it's that there isn't room for a double track bearing freight trains with overhead. Freight trains being taller than passenger trains (passenger trains all fit in W6A in this country, i believe; squinting at a map from 2004, it looks like the Canonbury curve might be W9). tom -- Tubes are the foul subterranean entrails of the London beast, stuffed with the day's foetid offerings. -- Tokugawa |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
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East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
On 2011\03\02 22:44, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Wed, 2 Mar 2011, wrote: Were there at any point stations on between the Canonbury tunnel and Finsbury Park? There still is! The line through the tunnel joins up with the Northern City line to Moorgate where it comes to the surface, immediately south of Drayton Park. I have no idea if there were ever platforms on that line, though. Come to think of it, i have no idea how the tunnels relate underground. Are they completely separate right up their portals? The Big Tube ends at Drayton Park (the road). The Canonbury Curve tunnel ends near Ronalds Road. This is quite clear from the satellite photos in the map resource of your choice. The Canonbury Curve is significantly higher than the Moorgate Line at Drayton Park station, I think high enough to bridge over the Moorgate Line in the station, although the bridging actually occurs north of the station. Whenever I have ended up in Drayton Park station for ten minutes there has always been a train passing on the curve, so it got more use than people seem to think, although I have not been there in the last five years. |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
"Tom Anderson" wrote in message th.li... On Wed, 2 Mar 2011, wrote: Were there at any point stations on between the Canonbury tunnel and Finsbury Park? There still is! The line through the tunnel joins up with the Northern City line to Moorgate where it comes to the surface, immediately south of Drayton Park. I have no idea if there were ever platforms on that line, though. No, the single line from Canonbury tunnel is separate past Drayton Park, and it is at a higher level - and when it reverts to double track the down Canonbury line passes over both the up and down Moorgate lines. They remain separate all the way up to Finsbury Park, with the Moorgate lines on the 'insides'. Both down lines pass under the four main lines, the only connections are just south of FP station, similar on the up side. No apparent space where there could have been platforms when it was two track - I haven't ever read of any. Come to think of it, i have no idea how the tunnels relate underground. Are they completely separate right up their portals? I'd recommend Google Maps aerial view as by far the easiest explanation... Paul S |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
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East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
On Wed, 2 Mar 2011 22:34:44 +0000
Tom Anderson wrote: Specifically, i think it's that there isn't room for a double track bearing freight trains with overhead. Freight trains being taller than passenger trains (passenger trains all fit in W6A in this country, i believe; squinting at a map from 2004, it looks like the Canonbury curve might be W9). I don't think its the height so much as the profile. Passenger trains curve in towards the top whereas container freight wagons are a box shape which tend not to work in tunnels where the curved roof would cut in on the boxy corners. B2003 |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
th.li... Come to think of it, i have no idea how the tunnels relate underground. Are they completely separate right up their portals? You'll appreciate this I think Tom, found it this morning: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZxk08n8Jag At about 1.03 you can see a connection from Finsbury Park coming in from the right of the southbound tunnel. That approximates to the current 'up Moorgate' route from Finsbury Park - the flyover shown above has since been rebuilt, but that is carrying the down line from Canonbury over the 'tubes'. The LU tunnel portals were demolished and a new down Moorgate route formed roughly where they were, passing under the down Canonbury. I think at the time the film was shot that connection on the right would have been unused, remains of the abandoned 'Northern Heights' route (which Colin has since mentioned) that would have extended the Northern Line north west of Finsbury Park. Hope that is of interest to you, and many others. Paul S |
East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington open today
"Basil Jet" wrote: [snip] The Big Tube ends at Drayton Park (the road). The Canonbury Curve tunnel ends near Ronalds Road. This is quite clear from the satellite photos in the map resource of your choice. The Canonbury Curve is significantly higher than the Moorgate Line at Drayton Park station, I think high enough to bridge over the Moorgate Line in the station, although the bridging actually occurs north of the station. Whenever I have ended up in Drayton Park station for ten minutes there has always been a train passing on the curve, so it got more use than people seem to think, although I have not been there in the last five years. West Anglia trains used to be serviced and stabled at Hornsey depot (the result I think of the WAGN TOC 'grouping' of the WA and GN), and so used the Canonbury Curve and Graham Road Curve to get to and from the depot to their operating patch on the West Anglia lines out of Liverpool Street (ECS moves for the peaktime extras meant stock used this connection during the day too). This arrangement came to an end a while back - just as well because the NLL upgrade required the (temporary) severance of this route. |
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