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we'll all drown!!
"Steve Firth" wrote in message .. . Steve Firth wrote: I have, as I pointed out, use of the same fuel in BTW, don't start ranting on about the efficiency of fuel cells either. The DfT rates a fuel cell at 1.4MJ/km, a petrol engine at 1.98 MJ/km. Hardly the huge difference in energy efficiency needed to overcome the laughable fuel costs and weight penalties. [Source: DfT "platinum and hydrogen for fuel cell vehicles"] This is before we start to wrry about the effects of released hydrogen on global warming and depletion of the ozone layer, the improbability that there is enough platinum available to meet demand, and the *increased* use fo fossil fuels in order to gnerate "clean[1]" hydrogen. [1] Har, bloody har. -- Through travelling to sunnier climes I've lost some of this thread and therefore having to pick it up again from my laptop, however as previously pointed out the use of platinum as a catalyst for hydrogen production is old hat. A tin/nickel mixture in a low temperature, neutral emission process is seen as the way forward. This will use far less energy than is currently used to produce diesel, which is what the power cell idea is hopefully replacing. The raw source of the hydrogen is also far more abundant and cheaper. (glucose/plant waste mixture) Nickel/Tin catalyst costs are in the region of one to two thousandths that of platinum. I do not have the paper to hand, however a Google search should give several results. From memory it was the University of Wisconsin and another University in Nagoya (Japan) who were pioneering the process. Commercial sponmsorship to further the research is assured. Therefore your DfT data is out of date. I understand a further study by the DfT is currently underway in this area and their data may be updated in due course using independent consultants. To reiterate no one from this side of the industry in the UK is trying to con the public as the companies I work with are quite open in their press releases about the current drawbacks. BP is supplying the hydrogen currently used and the buses are a trial of the technology. To rattle on using old data to try and prove a point of view is not good form. Similar arguments were put forward at the time Boeing began developing the 747. At the time of project launch there were various engineering problems that could not be solved using then current metals in some of the heavier loaded areas of the airframe. The new alloys had to be invented. There were many both within Boeing and Nasa who said the required strength/weight ratio could not be achieved, of course the cleverer ones in those organisations were not put off and their persistence has paid off many times over. The alloys were invented and produced in quantity within three years. No one is pretending the fuel cell is the panacea for all auto-motive traffic, however if a clean process is developed to produce hydrogen in industrial quantities there are many towns/cities which will benefit from having less polluting emissions damaging the health of their occupants and the fabric of their buildings, not to mention noise pollution. Quieter, less damaging buses are one way of contributing to a better environment. As pointed out elesewhere in this thread, when dealing with emerging technologies it is well to keep a more open mind rather than put forward a rigid point of view as well as rubbishing/trying to discourage others from pursuing the research. If such attitudes prevailed in the 1960s we'd have neither cheaper air travel or non stick frying pans. Regards, Jon Mijas, head clear of the sand. |
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